Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 271
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 271
Folks I am interested in any MB'ers that have persnally tried using or know of people that used St John's Wort instead of Anti D's. I'd like to know if
1. They ended up onthe Anti D's anyway and how long they took to work?

2. Or if St John's Wort worked and how long?

No point prolonging the problem if in the end I need to go on the Anti D's anyway huh?

Been a slow learner cause they scare me but I am starting to catch on.

Regards - RMan

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 895
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 895
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RenaissanceMan:
<strong> Folks I am interested in any MB'ers that have persnally tried using or know of people that used St John's Wort instead of Anti D's. I'd like to know if
1. They ended up onthe Anti D's anyway and how long they took to work?

2. Or if St John's Wort worked and how long?

No point prolonging the problem if in the end I need to go on the Anti D's anyway huh?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">R-man - just a heads up - I tried St John's Wart, for several months once (I suffer from clinical MDD) - didn't do a dang thing. Still was hiding with the curtains closed, doors locked, and afraid of phone calls - OK, I'M A LOONEY, JUST SAY it!!!! Hee hee. Went thru several A/D's till I found one without the side effects that were worse than the effects of the med. A/Ds don't work right away, it takes time for then to start affecting you positively - expect 4 - 6 weeks of steady improvement. If you read back thru my posts, you'll definitely see a stronger, more honest, and humbler man than what I started out as.

The side effect to the one I'm taking is just fine - affects SF, and since I have no one to share SF with, I'm perfectly happy. THEY DO WORK. You start to think with more clarity, you are able to work more rationally, etc. I'd still advise them: try Lexapro first....

David

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
You can try Sam-e initially.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,178
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,178
Tried St. John's wort for a week once. It had no effect at all.

Lexapro has no side effects for me and has kept me out of the bad, bad, dark place I didn't want to stay.

I was very hesitant to go on ADs. I thought it would make me dependent, meant I couldn't handle things on my own, might have nasty side effects, would make me a zombie. All BS!

GC

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 895
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 895
Grey is right - they work amazingly, and you don't stay on them forever - even with my condition, I only have to take them intermittentl - a few months on, a few off....y

And they will help you get thru this....

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 7,093
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 7,093
If you live in the US you will never be able to find a high enough quality of SJW to do you any good.

The rule for herbs is one month for each month that you have had the symtoms, from what I can remember.

Say you have been depressed for four months, then after four months on SJW you should feel some improvements. That is if you can get a quality of the herb that still retains the needed active ingredients. Not likely in the USA.

You need something that is going to balance out your brain chemicals RM. Once they are out of whack you need chemical help, from what my doctor told me, to level them back out.

Lexapro short term worked for me. I did experience side effects after three months so went off. However they were well worth it to me while I took them.

RM, it sounds like you are very chemically depressed. I started to reply to you before about what I experienced before a complete nervous breakdown when I was 27 yo. I remember feeling alot of what you described. I refused help, tried to commit suicide and then spent three years climbing out of that hell hole on my own.

It would have been so much better if I just took what the doctor wanted me to take. I think it was called Elevil, or something like that.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
I was on anti-d's 2 times (if I remember correctly) for 8 months each, during the worst times during my H's main A. I was on Elivil which is an old anti-d...it made me very thristy all the time. Then I was put on Serzone which has since been shown to not be safe(liver failure). Psychiatrist kept upping the dose because I was still not sleeping through the nights.
They do tend to level you out emotionally.

The last time I experienced the trauma of my H's last A, I used homeopathics and also Sam-e (which has the added benefit of being good for joints). Sam-e has been proved to be a mood enhancer. (I have also used natural Kava Kava root occasionally.)

But, if your symptoms are severe and you aren't helped by Sam-e or homeopathics then it sounds like Lexapro or other anti-d without the is worth using. I just never liked having to take the anti-d's. I did so out of desperation because I felt my body was shutting down and I would die without help. You know when you are at your limit. I was nauseous, couldn't eat, had lost too much weight, and couldn't sleep very many hours at a time.

I didn't want an anti-d that effected sexual desire.

Since it usually takes a couple of weeks for anti-d's to start to work it wouldn't hurt to try the other remedies as well. You could ask your Dr.

But, I don't think St. John's Wort works.

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,326
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,326
I've heard of Sam-e....they make some pretty bold claims....it's a natural herbal thing.

Anti-D's....sometimes you have to switch several time until you find the right one...that's a pain.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,107
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,107
Tried cipramil after d-day. Made me shake and cold sweat every morning and gave me panic attacks. yuk

I have used passiflora incarnata ( passionflower) in the past to control IBS during bouts of stress and it worked very well, but only after a coupla of days useage.

Its available in tablest called " natracalm" in the UK.

Very mild though. Wouldn;t think it would fix clinical depression.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
As far as homeopathics, I've used Kali Phos. 6X at night to aid relaxation and help sleep. I've also used a prep. called Hyland's 'Calms' which contains the passiflora as well as others of nerve tension and sleeplessness.

During the day I've used Ignatia Amara.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 290
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 290
Lexapro Lexapro Lexapro

(Its predecessor, Celexa, saved my life.)

Been on 'em twice, clinical MDD.

Not on 'em now. Don't need 'em anymore.

Just don't stop all at once - whee! Dizzy spells!
Wean off very slowly.

Lexapro doesn't take the feelings away, they just keep the feelings from taking *you* over.

When you are depressed, even situationally, like during an A, certain neurotransmitters get out of balance. It is chemical, and can be shown on a PET scan. Lexapro directly corrects just that problem, and you get over the hump. You can function, and not let the hell-on-earth beat you down. And you don't stay on them the rest of your life.

It is a miracle drug. Seriously.

Obviously, your mileage may vary, so if possible, get to a good psychiatrist who knows his/her neurotransmitter stuff. Be sure he/she is up to date on the latest in depression medication. They will have you fixed up in a jiffy!

Tiger

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
I just read that the Homeopathic called Aurum Met (200C) is helpful for depression:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Aurum Met, Aurum Metallicum, is helpful for depression, emotional stress, PTSD, loss of self worth, and stress. Sadness. Aurum Met can be helpful for worry and anxiety accompanied with palpitations. John of Placerville, CA writes in his testimonial of how Aurum Met helps to "even out irritability, anxiety, and moodiness". Natural Care company includes Aurum Met in their Anxiety formula with this information,
"This natural mineral is particularly for people with profound loss of self-worth, and where everything is perceived through a veil of worthlessness and hopelessness, where nothing seems of value or meaning and which often occurs as part of alcohol or substance abuse.
"This remedy is usually quick in helping to return a sense of worth to one's view of themselves and their surroundings.
"For guilt complex, worry, melancholy, vascular hypertensive erethism, violent palpitiations with congestive flushing in the head and chest."
The Dictionary of Practical Materia Medica lists under Aurum Met, "...Nostalgia, hopeless, feels that all is against her, the least contradiction excites his wrath." Causes are listed as grief, anger, disappointed love.
Fatigue in mornings, fevers, congestion. Aurum Met is from the mineral gold." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone may have different symptoms so it is usually best to read up on what these things are good for and find what may work best for you.

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 445
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 445
Sam-E is as said to be as effective as many anti-d meds.

Its widely used in other countries and supposedly a natural chemical made by your body (so less of a chance of complications)

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
RM, I am short of time today - dentist @ 2.30 and have to swim my daily 2ks before I go under the drill. <squirm>.

I personally think a/d's mess up the proper cycle of post affair bonding. sex is really important in the process as in absolutely imperative - and a/d's and sex don't go well togehter.

St. John's Wort was great for me. First lot I took was crap but second brand was excellent.
I had side effects from it though so had to stop it - but this would not be a problem for you. It was a female thing.

Even better for me has been something I chanced upon at the health food shop when trying to buy a B complex for my shattered nerves. I am over the moon about this stuff and my daughter (a doctor) who is prone to depression (who woulnd't be working in a cancer hospital?) finds it gives her a positive out look about life and loads of energy. For me and our encounter with infidelity I have felt like I'm the remedial kid on MB's and have felt suicidal and no point to living for 2 yrs. Except when I took St. John's Wort and now this new stuff. I bought the vit B complex and didn't comprehend it was laced with something called Siberian Eleuthero. This herb is dynamite. I personally think it's a magic bullet. Look it up on the internet. It's a form on gingseng (siberian gingseng) and geaz 1.2 billion chinese can't be wrong. The Chinese are huge into gingseng and now I know why. It's just brillint for you state of mind and energy levels.

I think it's an American product but I buy it in Hong Kong where we live (I'm an Aussie). It's on the net though as I looked it up when I started to feel so good - I started wondering what the hell I was taking. Espeically look up about Siberian Eleuthero.

This is the best $20 approx you will ever spend. I only take it every second day - though it says 2 per day I am high it taking it on alternate days. My husband can tell you that the change in me is unbelievable. I have stopped and started it a few times now and I know I'm not imagining it.

OK *********Nature's Way B- Stress Forumla with Siberian Eleuthero*********

Start it one every second day - and if you are fine on it move it to one per day. There's a lot in the bottle so it's very economical. I want some other feed back on this stuff because I swear it's giving me my life back. I have absolutely refused to take a/d's. Just bloody minded I guess. But I knew from past experience that sex would go out the window if I took them. Btw the gingseng is also good for reving up libido!

Anyname

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 640
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 640
Alternatives to anti-depressant AND herbs can be found in studies by Dr. David Servan-Schreiber in his book The Instinct to Heal.

It isn't hokey-pokey and it is well referenced.

An example of his alternatives is running. There was a study conducted between groups of people suffering from depression: those who took anti-d's, those who ran, those who did nothing, and those who did both. The group who used running (only) reported the same benefits as those on anti-d's--and those who used both.

For those "non-runners"--the running only has to be 15 minutes 3 times a week (if I remember correctly). Anyway, some of the participants had never run for exercise and one was even a smoker--who apparently overcame chronic depression.

Anyway, I recommend the book highly!

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,885
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,885
I took Zoloft and for the first week I was a zombie but once my body got used to it...it really helped. It did numb my feelings...I don't know if I liked that though. I'm not taking it now because I want to feel everything and go through all the pain now without masking it. Just my choice.
I've never tried St. John's Wart.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,697
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,697
I have never used A/D's & never considered them because of the side effects and the problems coming off of them.

What works for me is a product called Happy Camper. If a good quality natural supplement doesn't do it for you, it's better to address what is causing the problem ( could be metobolic, environmental, nutritional)

D.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,813
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,813
During my first depression episode I used Cipramil (20 mg). It work wonders for me. The only side-effects I experienced was a slight change in my libido and sleeping pattern during the first 3 months – nothing major. After 8 months of use, I weaned it off and replace it with some natural and homeopathic remedies. However, I never tried St John’s Wort (the homeopath said it won’t match with my blood type). The natural remedies only helped for a while and after 5 months the depression returned. I was put back on Cipramil (30 mg this time) and I use it chronically now since there is also a history of depression, anxiety and OCD on both sides of my family (genetic). I use it chronically for almost 2 years now and never looked back!

Personally I think natural solutions can only work for a while and then the effectiveness of it will start to take off. It’s definitely not a long-term solution.

Suzet

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 55
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 55
I've used St.John's Wort for several years. When D-Day hit I went on some AD about a month after. Zoloft. It worked better. Didn't stop the pain, but did stop the crying jags and the anxiety attacks.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
SSRI anti-depressants simply reduced my desire to do anything; I became more apathetic and less motivated (something I definately don't need). Not to mention the gastrointestinal side effects.

What needs to be considered concerning anti-depressants, both herbal and pharmaceutical, is that the research is inconclusive in terms of their assistance in clinical depression. Some studies have shown that they show no greater recovery rates than placebo, which may be logically explained, in that most cases of depression are temporary and abate on their own. So, while you may be "feeling" different on anti-depressants, this does not mean that they are speeding recovery any faster than un-medicated recovery. This is not a defense of "toughing it out" and rejection of medicine, it is simply looking at the information regarding the science. If the medication makes you "feel" better than you must decide if this is for you.

Most of us have experienced the dramatic mood and perspective altering effects from the trauma of infidelity, but this abates in time. Just as the passion and addiction of affairs diminish, so does pain. The body simply restores homeostasis; it can't run at full speed forever (I wish I could retain the appetite suppressant activity of trauma...better than any amphetamine, Metabolife, etc.).

As for SJW, the problem with this product is the variability in the key components: hypericin and hyperforin (there are other compounds that may assist, but these are the most studied). For herbs, the best are always standardized extracts. In the extracts, the manufacturer has attempted to recover the important components and dispose of the filler and bulk. Also, most labels, for legal reasons, low ball the dosage required to be effective. One or 2 SJW caps a day won't cut the mustard, probably more on the lines of 3-8 a day, depending on the person. NOTE: SJW is not compatible with some medications as it alters the metabolism of some drugs. Check the Internet for a list of drugs that should not be taken with SJW.

SAM-e has alot of anecdotal evidence in terms of mood elevation, along with some decent scientific research. But it can be pricey.

Some other potential mood altering OTC products are Chocomine: an extract of chocolate which contains a greater concentration of PEA (phenylethylamine), theobromine, and anandamines. Alot of raves about this product.
Phenibut (Gabatropin): a GABAergic compound, acts on the pathways of the benzodiazepines (Xanax, Valium, etc.) Passiflora and Valerian: both have compounds which act on the GABAergic system. Theanine: an amino acid from Green Tea, which boosts dopamine levels while also altering GABA levels. People report increased focus but being more relaxed. Green tea is just about one of the best "food" products for human health.

I, personally, have come to prefer the natural consequences of life, whether it is pain or pleasure -this does not mean that I don't like to alter my mood sometimes. I just don't prefer to numb myself to something that I need to persevere through. If you are religious, here is my perspective: When God tests you, he doesn't play around. My life has had more challenges than merely my spouse's affair. Why they accumulated now is not my question to solve, my task is to push through and be a better person. If you are not religious, here is my perspective (they are not mutually exclusive): "life is". I can't wish it away, nor can I reject the consequences of my actions. We all see the consequences of our spouse's actions, and for us to claim that "two wrongs makes a right" is just as foolish. The effects of our actions exist and we will either benefit or suffer, so I choose to benefit as much as possible, instead of suffer more.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 140 guests, and 97 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna
71,737 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,810
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5