Welcome to the board Micro. You know more than the rest of us about drugs eh? With SJW I suspected it was a phytoestrogen - as I have a strong family history of breast cancer and prolly have way too many estrogen receptors in my very lumpy dense breasts and they started to act up pretty bad when taking the second brand of SJW. I could really tell the difference with the second brand though. First time I felt positive about anything in eighteen months. But the breast pain was so bad I had to stop them. The pain abated a couple of weeks after discontinuing the SJW.

I mentioned Siberian Eleuthero to RM. This product too acts like a phytoestrogen for me. I can only take it sparingly and even then feel I'm being unwise to take anything that is reactive with my beasts. But I will not take A/D's. I have a theory about sex and recovery from infidelity. I think taking a drug that inhibits sexual function is counter productive to the rebuilding and rebonding of a damaged relationship. Short term gain but at the risk of serious long term loss. (though for a very long time I wanted the escapism of paxil et al)

I do heaps of exercise - at least 1.5 hours per day sometimes more. I found exercise took the edge off my insanity but barely. I did not imagine the second course of SJW being useful. I was quite taken aback at the positive feelings I experienced. (it was like geez I feel happy - how weird!) Interesting that you say that time will sort out our emotions. Of course two years is the rule of thumb. For romance and for grief and for change. Does two years represent our contrentration span perhaps? What about if you suffer from OCD? I think at the 2 yr mark (give or take a few months either way) you start to have more control over what you think about. I have heard the explanation as to why we stop eating from the shock of infidelity - something aobut the blood supply to the stomach being diverted to accommodate the stress in other regions of the body - e.g.the bowels! The emotional upheaval doesn't recover as fast as the stomach does unfortunately.

Anyway, hope you hang around. Your perspective will be useful. Lots of different viewpoints here. And a lot to learn.

anyname

Thank you for all the excellent feedback. I guess that the message is as follows - If I am stubborn and want to try SJW, Kava root, Ginseng, etc, or other natural alternatives, then good quality products are the go. Not the cheap and nasty ones(although not always easy to determine).

Having said that, I have been taking a product produced by "Bioglan", called St John Wort 1800mg. It has the following ingredients:

St John's Wort 1800mg
Passion flower 120mg
Goyu Kola 75mg
Ginko 200mg
Green Tea 100mg
and some 17 pico grams

Been taking it it 3 times a day for 5 days and I am not sure if it's my imagination or what, but I have been feeling a bit more able to cope.

I had a really hard word long work day yesterday and I was able to make it through.
Backed up today for a very painful Joint MC session today and after about 3omins seemed to recover quite well.

If this does not last or the gloomy feelings come back, I will have at least given the natural stuff a shot.

I have this posting now so I should be able to print off as a reference. Thaks again !!!!

:::: If this does not last or the gloomy feelings come back, I will have at least given the natural stuff a shot.

RM, the supplement you are taking sounds good. I think you should expect some gloominess on it because nothing, not even brown medicine will work all the time. e.g. apparently on the placebo list, brown nasty tasting medicine works better than white pills but an injeciton works best of all! God we are pathetic aren't we? Anyway, even on SSRI's you would experience off days re dealing with infidelity. It sounds like your choice of supplement is good though. And knowing where you are at, any sense of well being, is really welcome yeah?

I think it's good to have discussions with others in this situation. Pretty much everyone who's been a BS knows exactly how you feel. Some of us have had it go on longer than others. I think it depends on our emotional make up, our health, our circumstances at the time it occurred and our level of belief and trust in our partner. I have to confess that I've felt quite irratated with people who've blown it off relatively quickly - mainly because I didn't have a clue how to do that. I was in the deepest pit for a very very long time. I just wanted to die and have all the sadness stop.

I am terrified to even report feeling better (2 yr 3 month mark) I felt so crap for so long I hardly believe that I might get on top of this without a frontal labotomy. I think that new poster micro (now can't remember his name) summed it up by saying our emotional energy re any trauma is finite. We run out of steam - though we don't think we ever will - something eventually changes in us and the intensity of the pain begins to dull. This is of course, if the problem is over and not ongoing.

I'd be most interested to hear whether the supplement works out. It would be good to build up a list of people who've done well on alternative medicines.

An

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by anyname:
<strong> Welcome to the board Micro. You know more than the rest of us about drugs eh? With SJW I suspected it was a phytoestrogen - as I have a strong family history of breast cancer and prolly have way too many estrogen receptors in my very lumpy dense breasts and they started to act up pretty bad when taking the second brand of SJW. I could really tell the difference with the second brand though. First time I felt positive about anything in eighteen months. But the breast pain was so bad I had to stop them. The pain abated a couple of weeks after discontinuing the SJW.[/b]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After looking up the research on Pubmed, there is a component in SJW called biapiginin that binds to the estrogen receptor, so there may be some estrogenicity in SJW. The anti-depressant mechanism is derived mainly from hyperforin's ability to modulate numerous neurotransmitters: serotonin, GABA, dopamine, acetylcholine. It is an all around neurochemical booster.

Your experience with different brands is not strange, it is almost common in the supplement industry. Depending on what manufacturer and what ingredients they use, can be the difference from -well, working and not working.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mentioned Siberian Eleuthero to RM. This product too acts like a phytoestrogen for me. I can only take it sparingly and even then feel I'm being unwise to take anything that is reactive with my beasts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While Eleutherococcus is not a true "ginseng", it may have an inherent estrogenicity as the ginsengs do. It seems a rule that nature favors estrogenic compounds over androgenic, most probably as a defense mechanism (estrogenic compounds interfere with reproduction, thus plants have less offspring to worry about consuming them).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I will not take A/D's. I have a theory about sex and recovery from infidelity. I think taking a drug that inhibits sexual function is counter productive to the rebuilding and rebonding of a damaged relationship. Short term gain but at the risk of serious long term loss. (though for a very long time I wanted the escapism of paxil et al)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds logical. I wouldn't want to inhibit sexual feelings during reconciliation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do heaps of exercise - at least 1.5 hours per day sometimes more. I found exercise took the edge off my insanity but barely.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have had great success with exercise as a means to alleviate stress, but unfortunately, this time I am not able to do so. It is a definate goal of mine, but my present situation prevents this. Shame, because, this was my original addiction, and it would benefit my mental and physical health.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting that you say that time will sort out our emotions. Of course two years is the rule of thumb. For romance and for grief and for change. Does two years represent our contrentration span perhaps? What about if you suffer from OCD? I think at the 2 yr mark (give or take a few months either way) you start to have more control over what you think about.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My statement was more aimed at the constant worry, uncontrolled thoughts, anxiety, fear, etc. that occurs after the initial trauma, not so much how one deals with the trauma. From my own experience, the physical effects diminish, allowing the mind to anesthetize itself to the situation. This to me is when the potential for accepting divorce as personally beneficial becomes most appealling. This is when the person must truly struggle with the idea of taking back the WS vs. walking away. It is no longer clear cut as after the trauma, when the BS wouldn't consider anything but save the relationship.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have heard the explanation as to why we stop eating from the shock of infidelity - something aobut the blood supply to the stomach being diverted to accommodate the stress in other regions of the body - e.g.the bowels! The emotional upheaval doesn't recover as fast as the stomach does unfortunately.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hunger is regulated primarily in the brain. If I remember correctly acute trauma elevates CRF (corticotrophic releasing factor), which has potent appetite reduction effects, along with other effects on brain neurotransmitters: dopamine and norepinephrine. I am a narcoleptic, who has to take Adderall or Ritalin to stay awake. I didn't have to take anything during those days. I couldn't sleep.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[b]Anyway, hope you hang around. Your perspective will be useful. Lots of different viewpoints here. And a lot to learn.

anyname </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Been reading and learning alot. Wish I would have found this site 2 years ago.

micro - you posted

"Been reading and learning alot. Wish I would have found this site 2 years ago."

I agree but my version would be

"Been reading and learning alot. Wish WS would have found this site 2 years ago" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

:::::::::::: I have had great success with exercise as a means to alleviate stress, but unfortunately, this time I am not able to do so. It is a definate goal of mine, but my present situation prevents this. Shame, because, this was my original addiction, and it would benefit my mental and physical health.

Micro, A lot depends on how badly traumatised you are. I was really badly affected e.g. my ability to eat small, regular meals took at least six months to achieve. I was already slim but the weight loss had everyone asking whether I was seriously ill. I kept swimming but to get enough energy for it I drank Coca Cola. I wasn't eating well enough to sustain exercise without the short term help of corn syrup.

Before this hit, my H represented complete happiness and security for me. I had already been severed from my Jehovah's Witness family 20 yrs earlier for leaving their religious fold - so I concentrated on my husband and two children, and then to discover that my H could be so stupid/cruel was more than I could handle.

Plus at the time my mother was dying of breast cancer, and I had to move permanently to Hong Kong to protect my marriage from the 26 year old economic preditor who had caused my H to choose unfaithfulness after 30 yrs of being a great husband. The girl lived next door and still does and to cap it all off SARS broke out in a hotel a few streets from where we lived. I was on and off flights to Australia sometimes wearing masks for the false security they provided - and hoping I wouldn't get SARS because in my state I wouldn't have had much immunity and dying in a Hong Kong hospital of SARS was a very solitary experience. My daughter, a doctor had gone off travelling god knows where as the west invaded Afghanastan because of terrorism and my son was making really heavy work of university in Australia and needed more support than his parents behaving like children. I felt totally out of control. Swimming may have helped - but I'm not sure that anything helped - I was at the mercy of the process. I know I cried thru a lot of laps- and yes, you can blub away under water - no problem. And people think your goggles have caused your eyes to get sore.

::::::::: My statement was more aimed at the constant worry, uncontrolled thoughts, anxiety, fear, etc. that occurs after the initial trauma, not so much how one deals with the trauma. From my own experience, the physical effects diminish, allowing the mind to anesthetize itself to the situation. This to me is when the potential for accepting divorce as personally beneficial becomes most appealling. This is when the person must truly struggle with the idea of taking back the WS vs. walking away. It is no longer clear cut as after the trauma, when the BS wouldn't consider anything but save the relationship.

How far into this are you? I remember wafting between total determination to stay married and desperately wanting out of it. It's hard to fight long held beliefs that infidelity should result in the termination of a relationship. I still believe that but it's not what I did. Somewhere in the process anger takes hold and by the time I was finished with that (am I finished with it?), all I wanted was to block everything out and pretend. H said he'd give me everything - so money wasn't an issue, but at age 50 I had no inclination to meet another man and find love (whatever the hell love is). I'd been with my H since I was 15. And we got on extremely well. Yet the thought of leaving him had certain appeal.

You sound like you have rationalised a lot of your experience almost standing away from it and examining it from a distance. Not a bad thing if you can manage it.

::::::::: Hunger is regulated primarily in the brain. If I remember correctly acute trauma elevates CRF (corticotrophic releasing factor), which has potent appetite reduction effects, along with other effects on brain neurotransmitters: dopamine and norepinephrine. I am a narcoleptic, who has to take Adderall or Ritalin to stay awake. I didn't have to take anything during those days. I couldn't sleep.

Sleep? What's that? Your explanation about loss of appetite is interesting. I'd heard a different explantion on one of those BBC programs - think it was called Love Hurts. But, I'm sure you know how half baked stuff on the tellie can be?

Thanx for your most interesting explanations about the various supplements. There are some wonderful minds on here - far smarter than me. I hope you learn a lot and benefit from the discussions with others who have been where you are. IMHO understanding is the key to acceptance - though sometimes I think denial is the desirable state of mind.

an

Quickly, my experience with SJW was probably positive. I am very susceptable to suggestion, however, so who knows how much "placebo effect" I was benefiting from. I stopped taking just 2 weeks ago and haven't noticed "coming down" from the effects.
Several comments... I think I finally started feeling better with myself when I was able to stand back and view the whole thing from the perspective of a third party. I, like AN, started intensive workouts...until it hurt, badly. The endorphine rush was a good healer. Not to mention the great abs lol.
I, like most, lost a lot of weight ... down to 129 from 145 lbs. I think the decaying adrenaline in your system affects your ability to eat/digest/stomach food. Haven't we all tried to swallow something and then ...
The one thing that helped me was finding a "soulmate" who I could talk about my feelings with, the way I used to be able to talk to my W. We (she's a woman who has gone through the same situation in reverse in the last year) have been able to joke with each other and prop each other up during darker moments. I don't think I'm in any danger of falling for her.
I'm at the point now where no matter how much I love WW, I'm not allowing her actions to hurt me anymore.
It's been a very tough 6 months though!