I have noticed more and more in recent years how virtually every married woman I know has a husband who seems to be completely incompetent, especially when it comes to child care - things like leaving their child behind in a store and not noticing for an hour. I know a couple of women who don't want their husbands, who were seriously ill, to go to the doctors by themselves because they never thought to ask important questions. This incompetence seems to be widespread among all the women I know, as well as among the women they know. These men are not stupid - many are very successful at their careers and extremely bright, but they have no common sense. I don't know how many times I have heard, "It's like having 4 kids instead of 3," or something similar. Thinking back, my H sometimes didn't have a lot of common sense when it came to child care either, though if he had ever done what some of these husbands had, I would have been too embarassed to share it. A recent post asked why men marry, and after hearing all these complaints, why on earth do women marry if nearly every woman ends up feeling this way? I am beginning to doubt that there are more than a handful of sensible men out there.

I would say many men do not develop the skills but most could if given the chance. A lot of mothers are very controlling of this aspect of co-parenting and don't let the fathers try to get their rhythm of doing it without critique or stepping in.

I have known several men who are as competent as the women.

There is a cultural/social element here along with gender.

Wow that's a loaded question, hope you have a helmet on....because some unhappy responses will most likely ensue.

I don't think men are incompetent. My WH is a very good father, very cautious about when my DD10 played outside, where she was at all times in the store, that she should have vitamins, make sure she had a jacket on, etc.

As for the going to the doctor thing, I think the wife probably just wants to make sure that the husband asks all the questions THEY would ask. The husband probably assumes the doctor knows what they're doing, and doesn't question it since they never went to medical school, also, men are not usually "complainers" they don't want to seem needy to the doctor, so they just don't say anything.

A lot of men aren't taught maternal things....so why would they be expected to know them? Do you know very many boy children that are encouraged to play with a doll?? (More are now, but boys NEVER used to be) No....they get trucks, and tools to play with. We gender bias them, then wonder why they are the way they are.

The same thing could be said for women....."Are women really as incomptent as they seem?".....They don't seem to know jack about how to fix a carburator, heck they don't seem to notice the oil light lit up on the dash board, they can't even install a car stereo, or sharpen the blade on the lawn mower, or get up on a ladder and clean the gutters, I don't think they know there are gutters. (See what I mean? And I'm a chick)

-Caren

<small>[ February 20, 2005, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

I have known some men who were somewhat lacking in their parenting skills. I've also known several women who were, as well. I know that I am not a perfect parent. I have improved over the years and maybe some of these men will improve also. While no one is perfect, most strive to grow. Perhaps these men are just in a different place in their journey to self-discovery.

Caren,

Good question. In my group of friends, the fathers are very competent with their children. I acutally take our kids to the dentist, doctor, school activities, stay home when they are sick more than my wife (WW). It has always been that way. I do believe though that women tend to have a deeper understanding of childcare - tend to be more nuturing by their very nature. Even so, my kids get hugs and lots of "I love you" from me.

The bottom line is kids get something special from a mom and dad. Each has different things to offer.

As far as incompetent men, I know a lot. I know fathers that do very little with their kids and spouses. I see wives doing almost everything, mowing lawns, painting their houses, shoveling snow, all while the "old man" sits in front of the tube. I am not one of those men but by WW left me anyway. Why did she leave me? Because I failed to meet her EN's. Now I have to prove to her that I can do that also.

Sorry,

My response was to Nellie2.

Keith

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The same thing could be said for women....."Are women really as incomptent as they seem?".....They don't seem to know jack about how to fix a carburator, heck they don't seem to notice the oil light lit up on the dash board, they can't even install a car stereo, or sharpen the blade on the lawn mower, or get up on a ladder and clean the gutters, I don't think they know there are gutters. (See what I mean? And I'm a chick)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...or program a VCR, or assemble anything that comes with screws and requires instructions, or change a flat tire...
Wow! Excellent point, Caren. I know that made ME feel incompetent! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S. What are gutters?

Absolutely!

Most men are complete idiots - in addition to being incompetant.

And, we're all a-holes!!!

In fact, all the women are right to label us individualy as "ignoranus" - the combination of being BOTH stupid AND a-holes!!

WAT
-------------------
100% man. How did I get this far?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nellie2:
I have noticed more and more in recent years how virtually every married woman I know has a husband who seems to be completely incompetent </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh Nelly2 ....

Perhaps you need to choose a wiser group of women to be friends with???

Pep

Oh Wat...
you dumb-a@@

you crack me up...
and I just adore you.....

now out out you demons of stupidity.. !!!!

there..
Consider yourself HEALED!!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

arkie

<small>[ February 20, 2005, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

I think women miss the point here. First off, everyone on here knows my story and knows what kind of Dad I am. And I was a good Dad before, but was able to skate around the edges because my wife was a SAHM.

And THAT is the point. We learn early on, I believe from our mothers, to let women take care of us. The old adage "If I screw up what she asked me to do, she will never ask me again" holds true, even if subsconsciously.

It is not that we are insensitive Neandarthals (although WAT may be onto something on this Ignoranus deal!!). It is the way we are raised.

One thing I do with my two sons is now that they are getting old enough (especially the 12 year old), I dont let Mom do anything for them. Nothing. When I mean do anything for them, I mean she doesnt clean up after them, she doesnt keep track (overtly) of what they have due or need to be doing. I see too many boys walking around saying "Sorry I forgot to do that and Mom didnt remind me." My two boys NEVER get to give that excuse.

At the same time, I do require them to help their Mom. Now that we have been working on this for awhile, they jump when they hear Mom coming in the garage. Before...she would pull in, maybe with groceries...and here my boys would sit, watching their Mom lug in the groceries or her stuff from work. Not anymore!! Now they hear the garage door opener, and they pop up and head straight out to her...saying "Hi" and asking if she needs any help. It is all about conditioning!

You see, my daughter isnt this way. She doesnt require (never has) her Mom keep track of her stuff or her deadlines. My 10yo daughter does a lot of stuff without being asked. She is very independent. About the only thing I think I get in trouble for with her is I do spoil her...and the boys glare at me when I do. Tuff!! She's a girl.

I make the boys hold the door for their Mom and sister...and when we eat or do anything else, Mom and sister go first.

Now you feminists will start screaming at my...but TUFF to you too. I will be darned if I dont raise gentlemen. And a woman is a woman, even if it is their sister.

So, I diverged here. I think yo gals have to realize that just like many of the things women pass on to other women on dealing with their husband...we men also get it passed onto us that we can be "selectively incompetent" and the stuff we really dont like to do, will just go away.

In His arms.

uh, huh? - wha happened? where am I?

suddenly everything is clearer!

I can SEE!!! Now I understand!

How could I have been so WRONG???

I'm healed??

YAY!!!!!

Right in the middle of fixing this toilet!!

Oooops - what's THIS for? Where does THIS go? How do I get this all back together?? OMG!! I have GOT to pee!!! Now what??????

lots of healing have occurred WAT that definitely involved toilets...
it's a very very common thing....

consider yourself lucky

Hear - Hear - Mortarman.

I, too, am raising 3 absolute gentlemen. I will not settle for anything less.

A feminist is an unhappy person. Someone who does not admit that men and women ARE different, and there is nothing wrong with that. Even secularly speaking, a mammal is a complex organism and it is the dichotomous differences between the male and female that is the biological "engine" that makes the whole thing go. A femisist is unhappy about what they were handed when their life began. Probably doesn't seem fair to them. TOUGH. I just checked my birth certificate, and sure enough, there was no "fairness clause" on it.

We have hammered into us in the name of progressiveness, open-mindedness, freedom of speech, and numerous other guises a whole boatload of cr@pola about how men and women are supposed to act. It really boils down to a simple formula and that is ...

Do that which you are gifted at and do it with a servant's heart.

If we all did that, what a world we would live in.

So kudos to MM and me and any other guy who are teaching their kids to walk the path of honor. And a narrow one it is.

As for the women who has all the friends who seem to have incompetent husbands, I would say two things.

1) Stop enabling them, you are their wives, not their mothers.
2) Stop man-bashing them. Death and life are in the power of the tongue. Ever stop and think that they just might be rising to what you speak over them?

A general thought - Why is it that COMPLAINING never gets one an advantage in any situation WITHOUT fostering feelings of ill-will? Bad service at a restaraunt - COMPLAINING (and I mean whining, *****ing, etc, not courteously informing a manager) MAY get you a free meal, but don't be surprised if someone spits in your dessert.

When does complaining get us anywhere in the world?

Then answer me this, why do we all think it will in our marriages?

NCWalker

Nelly,

I see this a little differently. Granted, my XH wasn't the most competent father. But it wasn't because he couldn't be. It was he CHOSE not to be. It wasn't something he wanted to do. Kids just were not his thing. This is not true of all men.

Okay, so that wasn't a good thing. But first, I think women are naturally the "nurturers" because it's how God made us. And men are the protectors, generally.

And while my XH wasn't the best at child-rearing, he was very, very good at "man" things. He could fix anything. He could pick up a broken piece of junk snowblower or lawnmower off the curb and make it run again (and I still have both of them!)

He cleaned the gutters. He installed the new lights I purchased. He took care of the cars. He fixed the toilets. He gutted and remodeled a kitchen once. I just watched and handed him tools most of the time.

Does it mean I can't learn how to do those things? No, I just chose not to, just like he chose not to do the mothering thing.

(NOTE: I posted over on D/D just how proud I am of myself because I fixed my own washer yesterday! And it was a fairly involved repair. I decided I was going to learn to become competent. And I'm now on my 5th load of laundry since the fix!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

But does this now mean I don't need an "incompetent-at-parenting man"? Absolutely not! I still hope someday to have the opportunity for a relationship. Do I have to have the best child-rearer out there? It'd be nice, but it's not a requirement (especially since my youngest is almost grown). I'd rather find a man who can take care of the "man" things.

And frankly, I'd rather just have a man who was a Christian and who I could trust to love me and be faithful to me.

LL

And just who chose those men to be their husbands? I guess if your friends aren't bright enough to choose well, then the fault is likely their own. Motto of the day: don't hang with dumb broads, Nellie!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> Absolutely!

Most men are complete idiots - in addition to being incompetant.

And, we're all a-holes!!!

In fact, all the women are right to label us individualy as "ignoranus" - the combination of being BOTH stupid AND a-holes!!

WAT
-------------------
100% man. How did I get this far? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You caveman, you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

None of these women are in any way dumb - I have found this situation to be true in the marriages of virtually all my co-workers and my family's co-workers. These are almost all highly educated, intelligent women, married to men who are also highly educated and intelligent, most of whom are engineers, computer programmers and the like. For the most part, the wives are not complaining about incompetence in skills like cooking, but rather in basic parenting and organizational skills. When they complain about parenting skills, it is not merely lack of nurturing skills, but not being able to get their kids off to school with their hair brushed and their lunch money, and more seriously, not paying attention to what is going on to the extent that children are put in danger. One has to wonder how men like this could ever run a business - or if it is really the administrative assistants (often women) who keep everything from falling apart.

<small>[ February 20, 2005, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Nellie2 ]</small>

One wonders why these women don't find something better to do than sit around and ***** and whine about their husbands all the time. I can much easier endure a so-called "incompentent" man than a pack of bitter harpies who do nothing but sit around and ***** about about men. What an unproductive, negative waste of life.

Men are no different than women, they are good at some things and bad at others.

I am not offended by the question - there are things I'm incompetent at - but learning. But I did homeschool two of my sons successfully into college, I am raising three rigtht now by myself - and If I find myself at a loss, I ask right here on MB.

Seems to me that I could find many things that women are incompetent at as well - but I really don't care. It seems in a good relationship, they should balance each other out - and maybe train one another as well....

David