Thank you for looking. I have updated my profile (click on the sunglasses)rather than repeat my story again. <P>What is he doing? Why is he here all the time? It was his choice to move. I feel myself gravitating to the empty love bank. <P>I think he really needs to hear from other people in this situation, how it started, how you felt during it, how it felt trying to end it over and over again but just couldn't do it, How much you loved your wife and children but you were were addicted to your feelings .

Dear Hoping,<P>I am not quite sure if I understand all of this but here are a few thoughts:<P>1. Five years is a long time for a husband to be in an affair......<BR>2. Are you in councelling, I would go for individual counceling<BR>3. It seems to me like you should move to Plan B, or go a little longer on Plan A but have a definite time limit<P>My take on this is that your husband will continue on with the OM as long as you let this go on, he wants both. Seems to me that he wants her but his family too. I think you need to figure out at this point what YOU are going to do.....It seems that as long as you allow this situation to continue he will go on as before. My guess is that he is just trying to cover his tracks more carefully. I don't know Hoping, I just feel bad for you and don't know how much longer you can take this situation (your kids too).

Hoping: Are we supposed to respond to you or your H? I wasn't sure. I have been the betrayer but not for as long as your H and probably not as involved with the OM as he is with her. Five years is LONG time. Sounds to me like he has had his cake and been able to eat too for WAY too long of a time. And what about the OW? Doesn't SHE expect some kind of commitment from him too? What the heck is going on with them?<P>I can tell you that giving up the OM was probably the hardest thing I ever had to do. I grieved for a long time. We broke up three times and always seemed to get back together. His wife called me and begged me to stay away from him and asked me not to respond to his phone calls. She was very nice to me and even told me that she understood how hard this would be for me. Can you imagine? But I was so crazy for him, I couldn't make good on my promise to her. It was awful. I never knew what to do. I loved my husband and wanted my nice life but I wanted the OM too. Go figure. Perhaps that is what your H is going through right now. He can't imagine giving either of you up right now. But life doesn't work that way. He HAS to. You need to set some boundaries. You need to let him know that "NO" means "NO" and there will be no fun family times as long as she is still in the picture. It is not fair to you or your kids. He has to choose. It will be hard. If he chooses you, be prepared for mood swings, grieving, restlessness, and the fact that he won't forget her for quite some time. If he choses her, then get a good lawyer because it could get ugly.

Hoping, a five year affair, even when ended takes time to get over with, to let go.<BR>Even the fact that you saw them coming out of the appartment doesn't have to mean more than that. doesn't really have to stop you from continuing working towards your goal.Gee, I know of everytime they met after my h decided to end his affair. SOme times because of withdrawl, and sometimes just because he wanted to explain to her why he didn't think it would work with them, and sometimes just because. And still, all that is over now.<BR>AT this moment it's up to you, really. <BR>I feel that things are actually going in a positive direction. The more you are together, the more of a chance he can regain those feelings he's looking for. Come to think of it, the more you are together, the less chance they have to be together even if there was something still going on.<BR>He realizes he wants to be with you, but is , mistakenly, waiting for the feelings to be just the way he thinks they should be. It doesn't work that way, there's a lot to be worked out, and the feelings start coming slowly for both involved, they don't just appear because we decided they should be there. <BR>In any case, you can help things along. Be positive, see the good side of things instead of the bad. Help him to regain those feelings. Help him rememeber the times where every single feeling was in the right place. DOn't even waste your time wondering about where she fits in. Talk to him, not about the affair but about your future together, the things we should be working on right now that would help him with the lost feelings, and that aren't done because he's still waiting for things to happen by themselves instead of working with you to make them happen. My H also expected that after his decision to stay his feelings ( and mine ) will be back to what they were before right away. Impossible dream. We have to work for the things we want, not to wait for them to hapen - too much time wasted that way.<BR>Make sure you show him you're confident and a great person to be with. Surprise him with new clothes or a different style. Talk about your secrets, things that happened only with the two of you, things that were fun or loving. Get his memory to work with you, by rememebering special moments.<BR>I can't guarantee that this work, but think about it, what do you really have to loose, if it works it will be great , if it won't than you will be no worse than what you are now.( just do one thing, keep the perspective, prepare yourself in case it doesn't work, so you'll be able to deal with it in the unlikely event that it won't, but do it without interfering with the positive attitude you'll be projecting )<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

hoping,<P>I'd like to respond in a meaningful manner, however I am pressed for time at the moment here at work. I will respond later on when I'm at home tonite... sorry... <P>--andy

Dear Hoping,<BR>Although my H's affair was much shorted than your H's, many of the characteristics are the samr...the "needing space", the moving out into an apartment, the lack of committment, I guess we are all like, aren't we?<P>A few things I can suggest, is do not pressure him to make adecision, do not give him a time frame, like I need an answer by this day...you want him to come home because HE wants to come home, not by and ultimatum you set. He will only resent you in the end.<P>Also, hate to say this, but it sounds like he my be continuing with the OW. I mean, seeing her at his apt. is a BIG sign. Why should he be telling the truth now?<P>One more thing, the Marriage Builders stuff works, but it is not easy. It involves changing YOUR behaviors. Because what you were doing in the past did NOT work, the Harley's suggest you try a new approach. VERY hard at first, becasue instinct takes over. When I realized that I was in fact loosing my H, I knew I needed to change. And not FOR HIM, but for me. My behaviors were self destructive and in the end, all my relationships would have the sme demise. I was expecting something form him that he could not give unless he was getting what he needed. And of course it goes both ways, but that's another story.<P>My H readily admits he was addicted to the OW. Now, nine months later.. oh thank GOD, he can look at her and see why he was attracted to her, but she is not what he wants/needs. She was a temporary fix to a chronic problem. Our marriage was the problem, but of course he did not see that before the affair started, but of course as soon as it did, man, she was the ONE....now I am That'll put smaile on anyone's face.<P>So, what I am getting at, is...please do not pressure him. You really need to focus on YOU. I know, I did not want to hear that either, but it is what made me strong. I made me more loveable. I started doing things that I used to love to do (some not so healthy...but FUN nonetheless ) and I just began to have fun! YES YES YES it was waaay hard to do. But it was do or die!<P>I have been on MB for the better part of this year, discovery was almost exactly one year ago...I can tell you that you will be stronger, if you begin to look at how to change you, and not him. It is the ONLY way.<P>Also, set boundries. I 100% agree that if you have an open door policy he will use and abuse that. If you are following plan A, then do it well, but it si OK to still set limits on visits, and meetings. If you appear to be too available, he will see you as needy , and that is not so attractive. I am by no means suggesting playing games, or appearing aloof, just stay cool.<P>You can make it!<BR>Lots of luck!<P>------------------<BR>You will be stronger because of this.<P>

Hoping,<P>OK, now that I'm at home, I can respond!<P>Here's my take on what is going on in your husband's head:<P>I agree with everyone else that he's probably still seeing the OW. Being in his own apt. gives him the freedom to do that. But he's still over to the house alot (or vice versa, you and the kids are over at his place). This sounds typical. He's getting some of his emotional needs from you and others from OW. Let me ask you, do you two make love whenever you see each other? Or is it all family bizness? I'm guessing he still wants to be a good father, but can't give up the OW.<P>As far as what I went through, I didn't have the same experience as your husband. I never moved out. In fact I never had sex with the OW. But it was still VERY hard to break all contact. I'm still addicted really, and it's been roughly 3 months. I still can't shake the need to at least talk to the OW. I resist, but it's a day-to-day battle. It gets minutely easier every day. <P>As far as how it happened -- she was a co-worker, and for a long time (around a year) we were just friends. I don't know exactly why or how, but things changed and we fell in love. But during the whole thing, we were both pretty depressed about it cuz we knew how impossible it would be. When my wife found out, I think the OW was probably even a little relieved to get out of the situation. Every thing kinda ended before it could really get blown into a full-on affair. That doesn't make it any less painful, though.<P>The other side of the story is my feelings for my wife. I wish like hell that I felt the same way for her as I do for OW. We're trying, but there are alot of bumps. My wife gets very anxious if I'm away from the house for an extended period (even though I never actually snuck out to see the OW). I tend to get depressed alot. My wife gets angry and depressed at my depression, which usually makes me more depressed. It's a vicious cycle... well... it just takes mucho time!<P>I don't really know what to add to the advice you've already gotten. It's all good. What Sally says is all good stuff. I can't add anything else... Just have patience (in yourself as well as your husband).<P>--andy

Thank you for the responses. I needed to hear them. I know he is probably having his cake and eating it too. Some days I just don't know what to do. Do I give up? Is he ever going to snap out of this? I guess I need to go with my own inistincts and stick with plan a for as long as I can. It's sad, I just wish I could help him and I can't.

Hoping,<P>Hey, you've kinda answered your own questions! Yes, stay in Plan A. It actually sounds like there is some progress on that front even if he is still might be seeing the OW. After all, you guys are seeing alot of each other, and you aren't love-busting.<P>According to all the information around on this webpage, affairs rarely last long after the discovery. So that means the chances are pretty good that your husband will indeed snap out of it. But like I said, it just takes a ton of patience.<P>--andy