OWL, I worry about my H in the same regard as you expressed about yourself. He "seems" to not be bothered by the whole "affair" and tells ME it's OK, move on. But then, like last night, he started drilling me about last contact, etc, etc. He was almost frantic about it, and it made me wonder what was going on. Did I have contact? Did he find something I forgot about? I asked him what brought that on and he replied that every once in awhile he just thinks about it and it hits him. I have to say that he is probably fairly typical in that he's not always "in touch" with his feelings. He's able to bury them, and apparently this just sprung out of nowhere.

He also said that he noticed that I haven't "needed" him as much. In the early weeks during my hardest withdrawal, I craved the "love" I was getting from OM and I was truly more needy of my H, I suppose in an effort to replace what I wasn't getting from OM. I tried to explain that now I'm doing better-that is the truth. He probably has all sorts of emotions going on that he hasn't really identified with.

Like you, I would say my H is very proud of himself as a father, but has felt inadequate as a H at times. Haven't we all felt that? I have felt that about myself. We've spent our energies raising fine children for the last 14 years! He is working hard on himself right now, but I sense he's not sure which things to work on first. We have a couple good books, and I will look for the one you recommended. We have done the EN worksheets, but now we need to act on them. We have taken small steps.

I am sorry that you still internally struggle with your wife's EA. The impact is probably worse than it may initally seem. I know for us, he & I BOTH were trying to tell each other that it was no big deal (because at first it seems so ridiculous, after all it's only a computer!). I think he wanted to believe that but when he saw me struggling with the withdrawal & depression he realized how much I had gotten involved. I guess for both H & W things are changed from that point on. I do believe, as you said, that once I'm beyond thoughts of OM, that our M will improve. I think this was a slap to reality for both us to not neglect each other, and realize that we can't just let our M drift.

As YOU said, no one can compete with a fantasy man. Maybe you need to remember that, too. Your W is not comparing you to her EA man. He was a separate entity filling some sort of need. It sounds like you are meeting her needs now, though. If you've identified what EN he was filling, you should be all set, right? In my mind, my H and the OM are not competing at all. My feelings for OM were (are) totally different than my feelings for H. After all, the feelings for H are deep, mature love after being together all this time. The feelings for OM are artificial, they're not feelings for him, they are a response to what we received from them.

Now I'm trying to sound wise!!! Anyway, thank you for the H perspective. It gives me insight into what my H may be dealing with.

OWL, I read your post again, and want to try to respond better about how you're feeling. I can't figure out how to do that quote thing, though!

You seem to be blaming yourself quite a lot, and trying to figure out how you failed. Please know, that your W probably never blamed you. You both are questioning how it all happened, and that seems like it's the right approach. For us, I think I have the guilt for the wrongdoing, and also have been focused on how I was so weak that I got entangled in something like this. As far as my H, i KNOW he feels like he let me down in a bunch of areas. But, again, we (the W's) aren't blaming you. I believe we're both to take responsibility. The M is a joint effort, and if there are shortcomings of any kind we both have a hand in it.

Maybe for the H's, it is a blow to the masculine ego. I think my H feels that way, too. He's thinking that I desired another man, that goes right to his core. But for me, I was smitten with the idea of being desired. It's not about sex it's about intimacy and emotional needs being met. The men give the intimacy in hopes of the sex, the women give the sex in hopes of getting intimacy. I don't even know if this applies to your situaction, but it was true in my case. This is why I think it's harder for us W to break away. If it were just sex and no emotional connection, easier to end it. In my case, I think my OM has definitely had an easier time with the separation, because the flirting, etc is what his greater need was. I can in all honesty tell my H that sexual talking was NOT the driving force that kept the A going (at least for me). Hard for men to really understand & believe that, though, I'm sure.

Didn't mean to go down that road, but maybe some of it applies to you. Quit blaming yourself, look at it as the opportunity it was to repair M damage. Me & my H have said several times that we are somewhat glad this happened to open our eyes. It could've been much worse and much more painful and damaging!

Cardsonly, you have come SO FAR since your first message on this thread. You seem to really 'have a handle' on your feelings and the reasons the online romance happened.

And yes, OWL, PLEASE do not blame yourself in any way.
This road we traveled was our choice, and we may have traveled down it, even if our marriage were PERFECT.
We wanted and perhaps unknowingly craved for another man to find us attractive, special, fun, witty, etc. We wanted this exciting romance; maybe we thought it was our last and only chance of feeling this 'thrill' again.
And like with drugs, the thrill wears off after time.

I probably won't be posting very often because I don't think it would be right since this IS a marriage building site.

The reason I am saying this, it my widowed OM emailed me 6 times yesterday and we talked this morning. I hadn't emailed him since Thurs and I think he was afraid he was losing my friendship.
He NEEDS me in his life and for now I need to be needed by him so.......

Until I stop this online romance and have a repentent heart and tell my H (so we can have a sincere marriage without secrets) I think it best if I don't be giving ADVICE.
(Unless I am ready to take it myself.)

I WILL be reading this thread though and may even occ. bump it up or leave a message.

Cards, could it be that your H has checked HISTORY, and went to Marriage Builders and read this thread including your messages about how hard it has been for you not to contact the OM and how your H doesn't know of the most recent contact a couple weeks ago???

HANG IN THERE EVERYONE
I HOPE TO SOON BE ON THE RIGHT ROAD WITH ALL OF YOU AND START POSTING AGAIN.

MARY

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: ItWon'tRainAlways ]</small>

Mary

You must be so conflicted. I am sorry that you feel you can't post. Maybe by staying with us you will at some point find the strength to move forward with ending your EA. You have been helpful to me, and I don't consider your advice hypocritical in the least!

As far as my H, yes, it crossed my mind that he read this and/or my journal that I've been keeping. I am concerned about that, and hope he doesn't come here. I have personally made a lot of progress, and feel H & I have too. I don't want to set that back. I have told him how much this site has helped me, but so far he hasn't shown any interest in it. But, if it comes out, we'll deal with it. Nothing I can do about that.

Thanks Cards, you are so nice and your thoughtful words make me cry.

Yes, I am very conflicted as I am also involved with my church. Play the piano, help in nursery, in charge of greeters, help with lining up food for funeral dinners, etc.

And to be leading this secret life! I felt like I was the only one until this thread!

And we also have wonderful grown married daughters & precious grandkids, that would just be so ashamed of their mom & gramma. They have me on a pedestal and think I would be INCAPABLE of having an online romance.
(Same as your friends and family, I am sure.)

Unbelieveable, how we get so WILLINGLY, with our eyes wide open, got caught in this web.
And like with drugs, I am just not quite ready to give mine up.
If my H knew, it would be completely different and I should hope I would STOP emailing with the OM.

I admire you and think of you as the kind of lady I would like as a loving dependable friend in 'real life'.

Hopefully, on down through the years, this experience will make us more understanding women, with more empathy when others fall short.

I will keep reading and I hope the others that have been posting will jump in and say how they are doing, like 'Confused Lady'.....

MARY

Hello everyone, I hope you don't mind but I wanted to give an update to my situation. I feel safe here even though I am on the other side of the fence, your posts have helped me move in the right direction....let me explain.

My H POURED his bleeding heart out to me last night and told me EVERYTHING. I didn't see it coming at all, but I am so glad he did. I thought I had imagined everything possible, but I never could have imagined the truth he told me. Fortuneately there never was a PA, that I am so grateful for . But, it was close. It turns out she also has a home here as well as across the country. If I had been asked to write a story about what I thought my H's ultimate fantasy was, this would have been IT. I cannot believe it at all and I am not ready to go into further details.

So much of what he told me, I had already heard from you guys on these posts, so in a sense I was ready. He had been in contact with her and tried to end it on several occasions over the last 2 months. ( It started 12/1 both chat and phone!) Their last contact was only 5 days ago - the longest period without contact. He also said that he has made his decision to stay with me and my faithfulness to him despite everything he has put me through is what is saving our M. (Gentlesoul, you were right) I needed to hear that SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad. He also admitted that he has so much resentment for me and us because of what he passed up, but he hates that he feels that way and it is killing him.

We have soooooo much healing to do, and I don't think it has really hit me yet, but I AM NOT going anywhere!! Thank you guys so much for unknowingly preparing me for what I heard last night. I have to go but I'll be back later.

Mary,

I think we are in similar places. We can intellectually explain everything that has happened to us. It makes perfect sense and our brain is reasoning correctly, but it is the heart and emotions that keep us weak. I sound strong and I have made progress, but I am still weak. I still think about OM. If me & OM hadn't been "forced" to end the contact, we may still be carrying on. I don't know that I would have had the resolve to end it on my own. Even now, knowing how wrong & hurtful it all is and can be, part of me still wants it.

How do we get to that place where we cross to the other side? I suppose it's the NC as everyone preaches here. I believe it to be true, but why does it take so long? Then in your case, your OM is still contacting you. I don't even have that. What tremendous resolve would be required to not be tempted by that! I wish there were a magic wand to just make the want & addiction to go away. Then we would all live happily everafter.

I want to be able to look back on this experience and know that I learned something about myself. I want to be able to laugh about it. I hope that for everyone here.

Take care!

luv2bd-

I am so glad you & your H had a heart-to-heart. This may not be politcally correct to say, but from my perspective it sounds like he is making progress. Try not to beat him up about the NC, what I think matters is that now he came to you and is being honest. If he has been through what I have been through, it has taken baby steps to go forward. Sometimes a few steps backwards along the way. I did what he did, broke the NC.

When my H 1st found out, of course I said NC. Well, I was in no shape mentally to promise that. I was too addicted. It continued on until OM W discovered - twice! Only then when the real NC STARTED could the withdrawal even begin. For me we're talking about going from 1 or 2 times per day of contact to 1 or 2 per week. It was a slow process. Stopping the daily contact was BY FAR the most difficult. I DON'T think that in my case the 1 time per week contact took me back to square one, it may have taken me back some.

At this point he is still withdrawing & it will be hard for you both. If you read my earlier post, I talked about my H just last night grilling me on NC. To me, I had come so far, why does it even matter at this point what date we stopped? He noticed me not needing him like I did in the earlier stages of withdrawal. He interpreted that as me going back and having contact. So, he will be going through a lot, as you've already read on this post. Let him talk to you when he needs to, but don't ask too much. He will be working on coming out his clouded fantasy and trying to immerse himself back into reality. I know, I'm still doing that!

Write back and let us know what's happening!

How are you luv2bd, OWL, Mary, Confusedwoman, Winbin? Let us know!

This song is dedicated to all of you that are going through the withdrawal of the OM (or OW) that has been a big part of your life for such a long time.
(I KNOW you feel a VOID without the daily contact.)

(Hi Cards, I was writing this when you posted...I wanted this topic brought back to the top, it is such a necessary thread!)

And especially to luv2bd, the innocent person, that does not deserve to be hurting because of her unfaithful H. (I clicked on your post numbers and read your entire story; a lot there. Now that you found out contact has been more recent, the puzzle pieces of his behavior these past weeks and months, are beginning to fit, aren't they?)

Also to you OWL with the unfaithful W.
YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS HURT JUST AS MY H DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE HURT BY ME.

Remember this and believe it because it is true:
The sun will shine in your life again and given TIME, you will SOMEDAY truly be happy again.

IT WON'T RAIN ALWAYS by Bill & Gloria Gaither

Someone said that in each life some rain is bound to fall
And each one sheds his share of tears
And trouble troubles us all
But the hurt can't hurt forever
And the tears are sure to dry

And it won't rain always
The clouds will soon be gone
The sun that they've been hiding
has been there all along

And it won't rain always
God's promises are true
The sun's gonna shine in
His own good time
And He will see you through

<small>[ March 09, 2005, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: ItWon'tRainAlways ]</small>

I'm doing ok, we had our first counseling session yesterday and she pretty much told him he CAN NOT control me and be so possesive. He doesn't know that I had a physical affair and I CAN NOT ever tell him. I just don't know if I can "save" my marriage when the reason I am doing it is for my family members (kids & hubby) and because of the material things I have acquired over the years. I know that no one could ever love me the way my hubby does---but is that what I want anymore? MMMMMM NOW CAN YOU TELL HOW CONFUSED I AM LOL

Oh and BTW the OM called & e-mailed me to "see how I'm doing" I just said I'm ok and that was about it. God that sure hurt but if I don't hear from him my heart hurts worse. He said he thought about our year "anniversary" also...what does that mean??? And to be totally honest I've thought about this--if I could go back and change the fact that I had the affair would I?? The only reason I would is because he ended it...GOD CAN I MAKE MY MARRIAGE WORK feeling that way??? I have so much to lose and I don't want to ruin my kid(s) lives. They would never forgive me.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cardsonly:
<strong> How are you luv2bd, OWL, Mary, Confusedwoman, Winbin? Let us know! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi everyone, it is encouraging to see the progress everyone is making, especially you cardsonly.

Unfortunately today is an extremely bad day for me. They broke NC yesterday when she called him on his cell, later they IM'd and I walked in. I am so heartbroken today, it's really unbearable. I knew the odds were high that NC would be broken since she is single and has nothing to lose by contacting him.

We talked for 2 hours last night after I walked in - he wanted to talk. He speaks so logically about the realities of the situation admitting it would most likely never work - then he jumps to the fantasy side. He says he doesn't want to leave me or this marriage but he is so confused. When I suggested that this is a chemical high he is getting, he admitted that he felt addicted. He's not ready to do what it takes to eliminate the temptation of the addiction. He, like most of you, spoke of needing closure. I wish he would come read your posts but he says no. It's too bad because it would help him so much.

Today I don't know where I stand, as far as I know he is still contemplating leaving.

I try not to lose hope, but it is becoming increasingly difficult. I try to tell myself that this is just part of the fog/withdrawal process and that there are signs that suggest he will eventually come out of it.

Owl - are you still out there?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What you shared with your OM wasn't real. It's so easy to build up a mental image of someone you know online. Even communicating via webcam and phone's don't give you a decent picture of who the other person really is. And here's another part of it...because you never met, you also never had the chance to be dis-illusioned by him. There is nothing harder to compete with than the fantasy of who someone is.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just re-read your story and it gives me hope and a bit of a re-fuel on the energy to continue in my Plan A. I especially appreciated the above statement - I have to remind myself of that until he can see it clearly for himself. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.


Cardsonly - I then read your response which also gave me hope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As soon as I started exploring what had happened to me, the first thing I had to recognize was that it was about ME, not OM. I had to tell myself over & over that I was addicted to what he gave/did for me, I was not infatuated or in love with HIM.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with others that you have come such a long way since your original post. Your insights are encouraging to me - I hope my H can get there.


QUESTION How do you think it would go over if I e-mailed my H some articles on the addiction of an EA and withdrawal? Would this just push him away? I want him to know he's not alone and the symptoms of withdrawal is an expected reaction - not a sign he should be with this OW. Any thoughts on this based on your experiences would be helpful.

Luv2bd ~
I'm sorry today is such a bad day for you. I have been gone from this site a couple of days now (I had to take a break as I was starting to trigger with everyone's stories and felt myself thinking backwards instead of forwards). Last I heard things were looking up for you and he decided to stay with you.

It isn't uncommon for WS to be on the fence at this critical juncture - deciding which path to take. As you know, it hurts to say goodbye to the OW, someone who has given him such fantasy pleasure over the past few months. Yet, his logical mind knows you are his true wife who doesn't deserve this pain and who has been with him through thick and thin.

Don't despair yet but don't wait around for him to decide. I know you know about Plan A, but my two cents is to keep at it. Last night I read "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It was excellent and gave me new strength. Particularly interesting was a passage that followed a spouse who left their M and went to live with OP. The bubble bursts, reality interferes with fantasy wonderfulness...money issues, childcare issues, where to live, going through divorce, depression, ugh.

He doesn't really know this OW. He thinks he does, but you know he really doesn't. Have you perhaps helped him visualized what risky chance he is taking by giving up his whole life to be with someone he just met in December? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Luv2bd, logic is totally on your side. Use it and scare the "H E double toothpicks" out of him. But of course, no LB'ers and no anger or disrespect. If I don't sound too forward, it sounds like MC is REALLY important right now and time to negotiate his decision to stay. Perhaps logic will tell him that as long as he is still in contact with OW, your M has absolutely no chance. He owes you at least a chance to try and make the marriage work. It means your commitment to him to work on his needs (and vice versa). Perhaps negotiation to try, will then get a commitment from him to write a No Contact letter and give the marriage a try.

This is all too easy for me to just write all this down. I know you are the one that has to live it. Write here anytime to vent. I continue to feel you are doing all the right things and hanging in there. It's a long road ahead and quite a rollercoaster. I myself want off this darn ride....wish I never got on. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

luv2bd-

I am so sorry for your pain. It must be excrutiating for you. You have been so supportive to your H & he WILL realize how important that was, some day. Don't give up on him, he is in world of turmoil. Yes, HE caused the pain for you and HE started the whole mess, but believe me he is suffering too. Bless you for sticking by him and caring.

He is SO stuck between the fantasy and the real, it isn't even funny. I am still there too, hopefully to a lesser degree at this point. My OM hasn't contacted me in about a month. My withdrawal has subsided, but I still think about him a lot, and I still have to tell myself over & over that he is so far away, we would never be together, etc, etc.

It is such a struggle, logic vs illogical, heart vs. brain. He KNOWS that it doesn't make sense, but he is so drawn to the FEELING of being wanted, desired, whatever it is. He can't probably even believe that the withdrawal will get better if he just endures it. Even more, he may not WANT the feeling to even end. That would be the "fog". For me it was the feeling of being "in love". I haven't felt that in 20 years. He is fighting to have to let it go and go back to the previous "mundane" life (my words for my situation).

After beginning reading on this site, I first read "Surviving an Affair". I devoured the first few chapters, trying to figure out what was going on with me. Trying to reconcile the fantasy with the reality. I felt I was half going crazy. Get that book and put it in front of him. It chronicles a couple of stories about affairs and explains WHY they started. Once he can get a grip on the fact that his needs were not being met, he can start to look to himself. It will reinforce the fact to him that his OW isn't really the right match. She is just the one meeting a couple needs. But he will have to tell himself that over and over. Honestly, later in the book it talks about marital recovery, and I didn't even want to read that part. I could not even go there. I was just obsessed with how I could make the pain go away. It helped so much to be able to identify the needs.

I don't know if this will help or not, but what ultimately put a stop to my online EA was my OM's W. She gave him a strong ultimatum. I don't know exactly what was said, but after he first denied our EA and then was caught red-handed the 2nd time, he completely stopped with the IM. My H was not as firm, and therefore I continued on. I guess that goes back to the Plan A. So, I think you must be firm that it has to stop - NO CONTACT. Only then can he start to withdraw and heal.

Another thing to think about is that now that you know about the EA, he will continue to feel more and more guilt if he continues. I read in one book that most affairs die a natural death, sometimes ending when it is just too difficult and demanding to continue on. So, if he is an otherwise moral person, I would think that it will eat away at him so much that he won't be able to take it anymore. I somewhat felt this way even as I was in the fog of the affair before we were even discovered. Even though I was devastated when it was discovered and I knew we had to end it, a small part of me felt some relief.

He is very conflicted inside and he KNOWS what is right, because his intellect is telling him. As one of the wise posters on this thread told me, don't even listen to your heart - now's the time to listen to your brain! Tell him that and encourage him to get on here and read this thread!

Hang in there!!

Please write back luv2bd, it will get better as he slowly takes the steps!

gentlsoul, Thank you so much for your words of encouragement - I really need them. I feel helpless except to continue a good Plan A. I too am reading SAA by Harley, it is a great book. In all honesty, I am very impressed by how well Plan A is working and in such a short period of time (I didn't fully understand it until 10 days ago but dday was 1/10) I found MB in feburary. He admitted that I have done such a good job at making the changes he desired yet he still has this pull toward her, and it is his problem, not a problem with me.

I'm getting the impression that he is more worried about living with regret for not taking this opportunity with OW than living with regret that he lost me. Even though he logically knows and has verbalized the outcome!!!!

I'm getting nervous because she has a home out here and will be back in town soon - and I know he is contemplating meeting her in order to "find out once and for all". I have told him honestly that if he took that next step, I probably would not still be around and he would be making the biggest mistake of his life. ( I really don't think I could handle it if a PA were to happen). Last night I did try to walk him through the ugly realities of life with someone he barely new - and he wasn't disagreeing.

He has told me over and over how impressed he is with me still being here by his side and that after everything he has done (and is doing) I should hate him - I can't disagree. But if I hated him, I wouldn't still be here.

gentlsoul,

I hope you are doing better, so sorry that the posts took you backwards. Please share if you need to, we will support you just as you have been here for all of us with your kind and helpful words.

cardsonly, Thank you Thank you Thank you. He IS a very logical and moral person - this is NOT AT ALL something he would ever have dreamed being caught up in.

One of my fustrations is in knowing and understanding what he is going through and why, yet he hasn't been willing to read, learn , and try to understand it for himself - even though I have offered him the resources. I have no idea how to help him with this! I guess he just has to figure it out for himself.

BTW, I gave him a strong ultimatum in the beginning and he just got sneakier about everything (I didn't know about MB yet though)- since then I have learned more about my role and Plan A - I just hope I don't have to move to Plan B.

Thank you so much for including me on this thread - I can't begin to tell you how helpful it has been for me.

luv2bd-

Another thought. When/if you can get him to this site, it would help him to know that others are going through EXACTLY what he is. I thought that no one would ever understand - I told myself, MY online affair is a REAL relationship, my OM are REALLY meant to be together, etc, etc. It helps to know that others are feeling the same way. We would be happy to hear him and respond to him, and tell him we all feel how he is feeling. I found that coming to this site helped force me back to reality. What also helped is reading some of the other threads where I saw families & people much more distraught and damaged than my situation. It slapped me in the face, so to speak, to see how much pain can be caused by these situations. Maybe he needs that.

Luv2bd ~
I see you posted your PA concern in different thread. That is just what I was writing to you to ask you to do! I can tell you are smart. Lot's of experts here on other side of fence that will help you.

Plan A is great. It doesn't mean you are a doormat either. He wants to see OW and keep you waiting....cake-eating. I know he isn't saying that, but his actions are. Someone on this site (I think it was Noodle) said not to protect anyone from the consequences of their actions. You are smart to tell him your boundary in this area and it's o.k. to set them. Gotta be prepared to back it up - are you? My OM's W gave the final pressure to end it (just like Cards') and it scared him to think about saying goodbye to his marriage without first trying to work out what their differences were. When our A was in full bloom, I heard the same thing about the regret of never giving our relationship a try....fogspeak. True regret is giving up a wonderful W to chase an internet relationship before you try to save your M. Keep the pressure on and don't be a doormat, o.k.? I'll think good, good thoughts for you.

Is MC a possibility for you guys?
GS