I've got to go along with Pep on that last post, Win. I haven't seen anyone here judging you, or any of the other WS's, especially those that have taken a stand to work on their marriage.

I don't know you, and don't hold a single thing against you. You made a mistake. That was it. And in truth, this mistake was big enough that it's going to take both you and your husband a long time to recover from...again, that's not an attack..it's truth. But, it still doesn't make you a bad person.

I accept my part in the problems in my marriage. My wife does too...now. She didn't prior to her affair. I recognize my part in how things were in our relationship, and have actively worked to make the changes that we BOTH needed. BUT...I did NOT cause her to have the EA. That was HER choice...and even SHE admits that now. She didn't when she was where you are at in the healing process. Trust me...for at least two months after the affair was exposed, it was ALL my fault. It was my fault that it happened, my fault that it failed, my fault that she was unhappy that she stayed.

You WILL heal from this, with enough work on both you and your husband's parts. And you'll find that your marriage can be better than it had been in years.

But one of the first steps in recovering from ANYTHING is to recognize your own mistakes and role in the situation.

Hang in there friend...it will get better if you both work for it.

Well. It's a scary place where Win & I & others are. Trying to transition between withdrawal and trying to focus on our M & H at the same time. It seems overwhelming to see the reality of dealing with forgetting EA & also facing the work ahead with H. I can't speak for Win, but I am scared and apprehensive about how much work needs to be done at home. I am encouraged by Suzet, Gentlsoul, & Owl, who are successfully putting their marriages back together, but maybe their M's had less to repair? It is hard to imagine (TODAY) that I can feel "in love" with my H again, even though we're being told that it can happen. Maybe that's what Win is thinking, too.

Pep, I really appreciate your last post filled with encouragement.

Cards...

We are 9 years recovered ... and we are sooooo happy. Our kids are happy.

Our M was as screwed up as many others here.

It can be done.

Pep

Cards-

I can't vouch for my marriage vs. others, but my wife and I have been married 17+ years now. And we have had many good years to look back on to reassure us of how good things can be.

But don't sell yourself or your marriage short either. Recognize that it IS hard to work through what you are right now. But also know that VERY often, those feelings do return, even when the WS doesn't think that they will. My wife used the standard "I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you." on me when the affair came out. When I mentioned that to someone, she pointed out that she's heard that many times, and her take on it was this..."The difference between love and being in love boils down to how much effort you put into it.".

I had to think about that for a while. But it's true...if you had spent that same amount of time talking with your husband, about the same topics, and sharing your feelings with him the same way you did with your OM, you'd find yourself as "in love" with him as you were with your OM. I know that this was exactly the case with my wife and I after her affair. We started taking some LONG walks in the evening...this was before she'd decided that our marriage was repairable mind you. These talks were BLUNT, they were OPEN, they were HONEST. Sometimes, they hurt us both, because we were talking about what happened, what lead to it, and what we were dealing with. But guess what...those talks were the very key that let us re-build. That was how we managed to re-connect. It was a lot of effort...a lot of "work".

Right now, you're not sure if you want to put that much effort into is my guess. That's because you're not sure that you want to let go of what you and the OM shared. (and it's really hard to admit to yourself that what the two of you shared was NOT unique, was NOT something special...and deep down you may be afraid that you'll find that out). But if you can stick it out through the withdrawl, you'll find that things aren't nearly as black as you believed during the affair. You'll see that your husband wasn't nearly as bad as you had remembered him to be...and that he's STILL there for you, after all that he's been through.

Now, I'm guessing...again, I've never met you or your husband. Your marriage may really have been something horrific, I don't know. But I can tell you what I've seen in my life, and what I've seen on other boards with other people. And what I've seen with friends and others around me. And what I've described is more often the case than not.

Think about this...your OM didn't REALLY know you. Not anywhere near as well as your husband does. Online affairs especially allow you to only show the parts of you that you want to share, and you can "hide" those parts of you that you want. Your husband has seen ALL of you. He's seen you happy, down, moody, giddy. He's held your hand through the tough times, and hugged you tight during the good times. He's seen all the bad things about you, but HE STILL LOVES YOU!! Take comfort in that.

Hang in there. And I will bet that a year from now you'll sound just like me!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi cards,

“maybe their M's had less to repair?”

I can’t imagine that any M with betrayal in it has less to repair than any other, but I think comparing how terrible our M’s were before an A isn’t constructive.

“I am scared and apprehensive about how much work needs to be done at home”

That’s extremely understandable, and good that you realize how hard it’s going to be, for both you and your H. Repairing an M and restoring love is very, very, very, hard. Recovery definitely ain’t for sissies. LOL.

There will be days when recovery just doesn’t seem possible, or even desirable sometimes. (There were times when my H and I wondered if it would have been easier or healthier to have gotten D.) If you’re committed to the process, however, keep coming here, asking questions or venting, whatever you need to do to get suggestions and support for continuing the work.

God bless,

Rose

________________________________________________
Quote from Pep:
Your feelings, while important, sometimes hijack your other important personal character traits. Feelings have no morality. There is no judging feelings. Feelings do not require an automatic action ... without first consulting the other parts of yourself ... to see if acting on the feeling is actually in your best long-term interest. See if acting on the feeling alligns with your moral compass.
________________________________________________

I like that quote a whole lot. I'm going to put that one next to my computer here. Thank you Pep!

To everyone else: Hi! Week 10 here and NC still in effect. Have had some very interesting thoughts come together this past couple of days about the A and the OM. Not so mysterious, wonderful and soulful as I felt back then. Hmmmm, very interesting indeed. Hey, and guess what, the OM wasn't perfect! haha, knew that, but I'm starting to remember more and more not-so-nice things about Mr. Wonderful.

Cards: My marriage needs a lot of work too. It was pretty broken before the A, and boy is it hurting now, although things are really looking up. It was broken because I didn't invest any energy in it and avoided all conflict so nothing was even spoken as being wrong. I'll be spending the next two years investing in this relationship to see what comes out. I know there are a lot of reasons I've spent the last 23 years with him. Two small children are counting on me, who deserve the chance to keep our family together. I have all the time in the world for that cause.

Owl: I am really taking a lot of heart in your posts. Thank you so much. It is great to hear about M recovery, and I did want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Time and patience - hang in there Cards and Win. Just try and remember it hasn't been the long since NC for you (although I know it seems like an eternity). Your feelings take awhile to settle into something your mind can fully evaluate.
GS

Trying to transition between withdrawal and trying to focus on our M & H at the same time. It seems overwhelming to see the reality of dealing with forgetting EA & also facing the work ahead with H.

Cards, I understand what you wrote so well! We are in this stage where we really want to move past this but our minds (and hearts) keep thinking back to the EA! It can be very overwhelming, but we must push forward! Sometimes I wish I could just go away for a few months just to work on my withdrawal on my own so it wouldn't be so overwhelming with trying to work on M at the same time! But it is not possible. Little by little you will see all that your H is to you!

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: 2BNormal ]</small>

Everyone,
Thanks for all your posts, Cards, sorry to highjack your thread! I guess I'm just shocked at how painful this all is. And I think that's why all these years I avoided dealing with our M situations. Now after EA I just have to. It's like going from something that makes you so happy back to an empty feeling, its very hard.

I know my H is going to read this post, because he wants to find out what I am feeling, but I don't want to hurt him more either. (sorry babe). I guess I'm just afraid I don't know if it will work out. But even before EA, long before, I was wondering why I was still in the M. I was wondering why I wanted to buy another house with this person if I don't see myself with him forever? But I wasn't sure how to shake him into dealing with my issues without saying "oh you'll live" (sorry babe). I guess I inadvertantly found a way.

Now we HAVE to deal with all those issues. I think soon I'll be ready to. But it's very overwhelming. I know for years hes had self esteem and depression issues (sorry babe) that he has never dealt with.

I do have to say that some of my EA DID bring H and I closer together, hard to understand unless you know our situation, but its true, and he admits it. It was just too destructive unless our M was a strong one.

I just got to take things one day at a time. Get over the withdrawl, and he needs to give me space to do that. And then we can see where to go from there.

-win

Sorry everyone, didn't mean to compare bad M's! Obviously something isn't right if there are A's, but I couldn't help but wonder if those people that are falling back in love, were actually "in love" not long before the A's. My H & I have been "drifting" through marriage since having kids. Too much revolving around them, "us" getting lost and disconnected from each other. It's been years since we've been really happy together. No horrible fighting or anything, just not working to make each other happy. OWL, like you said, I can see that since this has happened the talks that we've had have helped us to start that re-connecting. Just talking about our feelings as much as we've done lately is about 1000% improvement to what it was!

Gentlsoul, just today a made a list of the things I DIDN'T like about the EA. I came up with 12 things without thinking very hard at all. As I reread the list and pondered about some things OM said that didn't jive with his actions, it gave me cause to realize that I DON'T really know him. As I think back, one thing that really bothered me is that he point-blank denied the EA to his W. Not that I've been totally forthcoming to my H with all the details, but I didn't deny the EA to him. So, that he could blatantly lie to her makes me wonder.....duh, right? I really don't WANT to feel hatred or anger toward him, but somehow it's helping me to see that his motives were probably selfish. I guess we were "using" each other in a way, to meet our EN's.

Win, that's cool that your H cares enough to get on here and post. My H read some of my post, but didn't want to read everything. It may take him some time to come to grips with everything. I think his feelings about the EA will trickle out little by little.

Thanks all!

Cards....

Make a list of things you really like about yourself.

It's gonna be an awesome list!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

It's hard to move forward when all you see is pain and emptiness.

Win-

Something that I'd like to suggest you try to do to help yourself and your husband. Again, I mean what I say pleasantly, and I am NOT judging you, so please do not take it that way.

For now, for the next few weeks, stop thinking about the past with your H. During the A, and after, you'll find that the ONLY things you can see about him are the negatives, and those are going to seem HUGE, like you're looking through a magnifying glass. That's because the A distorts your view. I know it's hard for you to believe right now, but it's true. It happened to my wife, big time. She repeatedly told EVERYONE..."I haven't been happy in my marriage in YEARS!". Both counselors we'd seen, all her family, mine, etc... And whenever I asked, tell me WHEN it started, she couldn't. At our counseling session this past Friday, I mentioned this to her and our MC. And she looked me dead in the eye and said, "You're right...it seemed a lot worse than what it really was. I was only unhappy the last nine months before the affair, since I'd started staying home".

It's called "re-writing history". And it's NOT something that you're doing deliberately. It's a mental and emotional defense mechanisim. It's your mind and heart trying to justify the affair.

Now I am NOT saying that all was perfect in your marriage prior to the A. It wasn't in mine. But, I am saying that you need to try to concentrate on NOW, and not the past. Do work with your husband to find areas that both of you can improve in, but wait a few more weeks before you try looking back and really judging whether or not your marriage is worth saving.

I really do think that all of you going through this are doing awesome. I've seen a lot of friends lose their marriages because one or the other couldn't accept responsibility for their actions and begin working to fix the problems. Keep it up friends, hang in there....things WILL get better down the line.

Thanks owl,
I remember specifically being unhappy before we bought our new house (1 1/2 yrs ago), and before I met OM, (1 yr ago) because I was wondering if it was a bad idea if I was unhappy. But I didn't know what to do about it. It seemed H didn't recognize that I was unhappy or would discount my feelings.

I remember exactly a year ago watching tv thinking I'm bored and lonely and that is when I went to the PC and began chatting. And a big blow was for my b'day when he didn't get me anything and we got in a big fight on vacation, and I was ready to leave.

Of couse I can't blame H for everything. I should have stomped my feet, moved out or tried to make him see that things were not working out. But I realized the other day that I watched my mom sit in front of the tv lonely for 20 years (my dad being a muscian would be out till 2am many nights) so perhaps I discounted my needs.

I know right now I'm in withdrawl, so I'm not expecting too much from my feelings, though I know H wants me to wake up and come around NOW! I can only deal with one thing at a time.

My head is just swimming today. Since I think I'm mostly back to reality, the complexity of all this has come crashing in on me. Being a "thinker" and an "analyzer" anyway, my head feels like it's going to explode. I'm analyzing myself, my H, my OM, my M all at the same time! What stage am I in? I have all these books going trying to figure everything out! Am I still in withdrawal? Fog? Help, please. If I'm still thinking of OM am I still in withdrawal? Am I out of the fog since I realize I was in a fantasy? Maybe it doesn't matter that I label it.

My H drew me a bath last night (just for me alone) with candles and music. I asked him to stay and talk with me. We talked about a lot of things-his stresses, too. Maybe that's why I'm feeling so overwhelmed. I so appreciate his forgiveness and his efforts. But now I see all the underlying issues that we have never addressed. I guess one step at a time.

Cards--
Sounds like you and H are doing well thou.
I think the fog takes longer than we think it will. It can't just be wrapped up in a few days. I know I"m still struggling too, so hang in there.

-win

Cards,
I just read your post tonight and wish I saw it earlier today. You are so like me...I'm a thinker/analyzer too. There were days I felt my head was going to explode from all my analysis of the swampy bog I was in. All I can say is:

Just "be" for awhile. Bide your time and let things quiet down again.

Your body and mind are processing all the trauma you have been through. Your subconscience is trying to perhaps sort out the meaning and placement of all that has happened. It takes time. I don't know what you call it...fog, withdrawls, whatever it is called doesn't matter. Just "be" for awhile. You have time, right?

Gradually, things will click. I almost wrote to you all on this thread this morning and now I'm sorry I didn't. I was just going to say that coming to end of week 10 now of NC and things have "clicked" for me. I can think of OM now and not cringe in internal pain. It isn't so painful a memory now. He doesn't seem all that special now, and my H is seeming WAY more important.

Just "be" for awhile Cards. When your mind has sorted it all out, you will feel the click like I did. Hang in there.
GS

Win bin,

Please note I left you a message on my withdrawal thread yesterday. I will bump the thread for you this morning. (Just in case you haven't seen it) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet

Thanks Gentlsoul-
The confusion of yesterday apparently continued into the night for me. Woke up a couple times during the night, the sweating, not restful sleep. So today I feel "foggy" again. Am I physically withdrawing still or again? I haven't experienced this for a couple weeks at least. My sleep had been getting better & better. I hope I'm not going backwards!!!!

I'm still thinking of OM, but the urges to contact have diminished greatly. Maybe I need a break from the books and the postings? I need to ready our family for vacation in 2 weeks, but it seems like just a chore. I know that getting away will ultimately be good for me, but today I am really not looking forward to it. I HATE feeling this way. Thanks

Hi Cards,

I think what you may be experiencing is quite normal. I've had a bad few days as well. My H doesn't want to talk about the OM (or any of it) at all anymore, so I feel as if I have to push it all inside! I don't have problems with sleeping, but my mind is all over the place right now. I've read so much and thought about so much as well and yes it is very overwhelming! Yesterday I was crying about the OM and really wanting to talk to him. Sometimes it's hard just to push forward with real life! I think I won't be posting as much for now to try to sort through things. Hang in there and plan your family vacation! It could be a good thing to have something different to focus on.

I know where both you guys are. I feel the same way. I'm sooo depressed about never talking to OM again. I will very much miss his friendship, not even just the relationship. My H doesn't seem to understand this. I just need time. It's devestating for me. He was a good friend. And gave me lots of cool music. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

H seems to think my depression is all about him. I'm just not ready to think about the M. I don't know if it can be saved. I wasn't sure I was happy before I met OM, but I didnt want to face it and now I have to. I just feel a lot of pain and pressure. So I guess healing is a long process. All I can say is I'm trying.

-win