Cards,

My H did really try to work on my EN's for awhile. He really did! But then he goes back to his resentment sometimes and doesn't want to. Things are progressing though and it will be little steps at a time.

Owl, if you have any thoughts to share from the BS's point of view with EN's...please share!

Cards, the triggers and memories you are getting will fade with time. I have those thoughts as well. Dumb ones sometimes! Like this weekend I took my dd and her friend shopping and I can remember doing that before (during the EA) and the OM asking me about the shopping trip! Why in the world would I think of that?????

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: 2BNormal ]</small>

Hmmm....

Well, I'm not sure what to say about someone who's not willing to meet their spouse's emotional needs. In my case, I could step back and see what needs weren't being fulfilled, and my wife was pretty good about vocalizing them (frequently at the top of her lungs when we were in counseling).

My thoughts would be to have a VERY CLEAR, DIRECT conversation with him. Tell him that you admit the EA was your fault. Tell him that what lead up to it was your needs not being met, and identify those needs clearly to him. If he starts whining, tell him again that the EA was your choice...your responsibility, your mistake. BUT...for the marriage to be repaired/made better, that BOTH of you need to work on some things. Don't make it a threat, but make him see the connection.

And, at the same time, ask him what HE needs from you now. If he says nothing, then tell him that you know better than that. Tell him that you know that what happened damaged his trust, and his belief that what you shared was something special. Tell him that you are commited to HIM, that you are commited to meeting HIS need of re-building that trust, that you want to show him how special YOU feel this relationship is. Ask him what else he needs after that.

The trick is...TALK with him. Let him know that lack of communication was what got you two to this point, and that the only way to get past it is by starting with fixing THAT problem first.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Owl, I have been talking alot to my H about needs and what his needs are as well. As I said earlier, he has tried. He just gets into these moments where he feels he has this big resentment for what I did. I guess more talks are needed for sure!

Well, another thought is to get him to read as much as he can on WHY affairs happen. I resented my wife quite a bit too...it often takes TIME to truly forgive something of this magnitude...and to be honest, he hasn't yet.

But, if he can understand more about WHY it happened, what lead up to it, what you both can do to prevent it from happening again, it'll become easier for him to deal with. I personally couldn't forgive my wife until it seemed like we WERE going to make it as a couple after it was all done...because I would NOT have forgiven her for choosing the OM and destroying our marriage.

Hang in there!

Hi guys - I've been following this thread but haven't posted on it in awhile as I started my own thread.

But I had to jump in on this subject of BS having a hard time meeting EN's. I 100% agree with Owl. Your BS needs to hear and know that you have taken resposibility for the A - and you are now committed to repairing the damage and dealing with the A head on - even thought it is extremely difficult.

2BNormal - I am probably in your H's shoes right now. I think I have been doing a good job with meeting the EN's he will let me meet up to this point but over the last few days my resentment has increased. I haven't yet heard those things from my H that owl talks about - and it is taking its toll on me. Of course my H is only 9 days with no contact but I'm not even 100% sure of that yet! He feels he has already done so many things I have asked of him that he is not yet ready to give more. I feel he has done very little to make me feel safe and I'm sure he feels he has done so much. So I will remain patient.

But if you want your H to be able to fill those EN's, listen to Owl - it will give him soooo much motivation!

I won't lie, I've not heard 100% of these things from my wife either, but I do know that these are the things that I WANT to hear!

Owl and luv2bd, thanks for the words. My H and I did read ALOT about why the EA happened. He understands why. What his resentment is that I CHOSE to have the EA even though my EN's were not met. I am sure I have not met all of his EN's at many times, but he CHOSE and still CHOOSES to be faithful to me. This will take time to work through.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2BNormal:
<strong>
Yes it's hard to let go of those things that we are hanging on to. Sometimes I think about if I were to go back into the full swing of the EA, how would I feel? Horrible! Sure the feelings and excitement would come back, but the deception and the lies we kept will make me feel horrible and awful! It's not worth it. I was living in sin and I do not want to go back to that as much as I miss the OM! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Everyone,
I love this quote from 2BNormal. That sums up how I feel, except that I don't miss OM anymore. I now think of him stabbing my H in the back with a knife, along with his own W too. Weird how my perspectives are changing dramatically, HERE AT THE START OF WEEK 11!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Cards, about the momentos. I'll tell you my situation, but first have to say if I were stronger I would be doing what Owl says. I couldn't get rid of the e-mails and the notes yet. I felt like I was still grieving - I know that hurts my H to hear it, but it is honesty. He knows about their existence and we talked about it in our M counseling. I'm not hiding anything. Our counselor told us that they are "transitional objects" to me. Kind of like when someone dies and you hang on to their clothes.

NOW BEFORE ANYONE 2x4's ME, hear me out. I realize this isn't a death of a person. But it is a death of a significant relationship to me.

I put the momentos away though. I haven't looked at them in seven weeks now, not even once. Don't want to. It's painful to think about looking at them and that's what prevents me from doing so. Pain to think of looking at them, pain to think about throwing them away forever.

I am going to throw them away though. Getting very close because I know for sure OM doesn't mean much to me anymore. I love my H and don't want to hurt him. So...the bonfire is coming.

I did NC dramatically and decisively. I blocked all communication. I just needed a little time to grieve and to sort through what this all meant. Nobody hit me though, OK? I did what I did for me and I don't owe anyone an explanation except my H, which I did and he said he was supportive. He is looking forward to the bonfire though.
GS

I feel like you, Gentlsoul, about the letters, etc. I believe this whole experience has been a life altering event. I know that it has changed me, how I see myself, and my H & M. I am still awed by my intense feelings and reactions to the relationship with the OM. I NEED to understand myself better. As women, I think some of us have this great need to summarize and write history. I need to analyze the whole picture of what happened so I can learn from it. Yes, I think there is a grieving process for a relationship that had so much impact.

I may go back and read those items to gain a better understanding of myself. And then again, I may not. I am not able to do that now, which is why they're tucked away. It would be much too painful to do it now.

OWL, believe me, what you said today I have given MUCH thought about. PLEASE don't think I just don't get it. I DO get it. Everything you say makes sense. I so much appreciate your help. I was taken aback and not prepared for hearing how important it is for me to get rid of the letters & conversations. I do see that it would be a huge step for me to take and it would move me forward. I do not feel I am being deceptive and dishonest with my H on this issue. I believe I can at least take the first steps and clear my pc of the names and lingering e-mail drafts. They are serving no purpose other than making me miserable if I see his name.

Cards, I was thinking about the emails and IM conversations that you want to rid of eventually. I know it's tough and I do understand the analyzing everything! I still have access to some emails (about 2 weeks worth) between me and the OM from when the EA started,when we changed from friendship to the EA. I have looked at them and tried to figure it all out and how we got to where we did and why I did what I did. I used them to get some understanding of this. I haven't looked at them in awhile though. Since I don't have all the emails anymore (my H made me delete them) I still hang on to a few pictures I have. It's extremely hard to hit that delete key to delete them! There is definately a grieving process that we are going through. It's the grieving of the end of a relationship even though the relationship was wrong. I honestly don't think that those that haven't walked on our side of this would really and truly understand what this feels like.

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: 2BNormal ]</small>

Cards-

I do believe you understand, and I hold nothing against you friend. I would like to ask you one question....does your husband know about them? Realize that you very well may not see them as a betrayel of your husband...but if he's unaware of them, then in a small way they are. If he's aware of them, then continue to be open and honest with him...THAT is what he needs more than any other thing right now. If he's not, then think about how you could make him aware in a way that is positive to your marriage...don't wait and let him find them on his own, because for him, that will be another betrayel, another feeling that you're STILL not being honest with him. Just give that some thought, and see how that best applies to your own situation.

I have to admit, I'm having a rough time myself today. Sometimes they still hit me, with little or no warning. This morning my wife stayed in bed when I left (she normally gets up with me, but the kids went back to school today after a week of spring break, and she just wanted to sleep in). I went ahead and ran some cleanup on both of our computers, and when I did so I came across one of her old pogo accounts. She played Pogo a lot before she got involved in the MMORPG we both played that lead to her online EA. I looked at that old account, and glanced through the profiles of her "friends" from then...all guys. One guy's marital status was listed as "the wife's married...but I'm not!". I know that she had spent a lot of time playing cards with this guy online, and I knew at the time that she enjoyed his company...but seeing that AFTER what we'd gone through has kind of hit me hard this morning.

I KNOW she doesn't use that account anymore. I KNOW that nothing is going on at all anymore...but I still walked out of the house with that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I hate it when I can't control how I feel like that...when I know that its something in the past that is over and done with.

Sorry for the vent Cards, but just kinda had to vent someplace.

Hello.. I was directed here so offer sight and maybe gain some..
I too was invloved heavily in a long standing internet A.. that was very much a P and E one after many years.. almost 7 to be exact.. I am not proud of it.. i am in the early stages of recovery.. 2 weeks to be excat.. other times before I had tryed to break it off but contact crept back and voila inside of the dam mess again.. I see how i got there in some ways.. my marriage was falling apart in the inside.. my H never wanted to go to counselling and would tell me there was nothing wrong.. he went around doing what he felt he wanted most of the time and I was left with a 2 ans 4 year old.. dying inside..he had some substabce abuse problems.. which exacerbated things.. them came one night.. I was barely ever online.. we did not won a computer.. make a long story short.. I met someone who seemed to be living the same life as me.. same substabce abuse problems with s.. ect.. and there you have it..4 months of talk.. them physical.
I felt like i had to keep my end of the bargain up.. I should have ran.. but years later.. I was still in it.. feeling like shi----
I had tryed to make changes in My M at the same time Go figure and so improvments did come about afte ri had the 1 foot in 1 foot out of the marriage mentality..you dont mind making demands when u feel you might not be in it for long.. anyway.. not sure why excpet to say.. It feels good to be on the other side .. I do feel a bit of a loss.. not too much maybe because in my opinion the A had run its course..and i think Op sees it this way as well.. I became more devoted to me family and H than OP.. over time.. and of course over time OP made some mistakes as wlll which helped get me to this point..
I know what I did was wrong. I should have gone to counseling myself..but out of not wanting the whole darn family to know how bad it was. I chose another route.. in the end I do think many family members knew something was wrong..
I m not even sure if my H has had an A or should i say done inappropriate things.. He did come home with makeup all over a shirt after being out one night with his co workers..( this was before my A) which of course helped to justify all I did..
I will need support i Know it..and i thank anyone in advance for your help.. right now Im just in the phase I know i needed to do the right thing an did it..and feel compelled to see it thru. I know one day I will be over it.. just going ot take some time.. somenoe posted to me a good 6 months.. well after years and years.. I can only imagine how long it will be..

Hello.. I was directed here so offer sight and maybe gain some..
I too was invloved heavily in a long standing internet A.. that was very much a P and E one after many years.. almost 7 to be exact.. I am not proud of it.. i am in the early stages of recovery.. 2 weeks to be excat.. other times before I had tryed to break it off but contact crept back and voila inside of the dam mess again.. I see how i got there in some ways.. my marriage was falling apart in the inside.. my H never wanted to go to counselling and would tell me there was nothing wrong.. he went around doing what he felt he wanted most of the time and I was left with a 2 ans 4 year old.. dying inside..he had some substabce abuse problems.. which exacerbated things.. them came one night.. I was barely ever online.. we did not won a computer.. make a long story short.. I met someone who seemed to be living the same life as me.. same substabce abuse problems with s.. ect.. and there you have it..4 months of talk.. them physical.
I felt like i had to keep my end of the bargain up.. I should have ran.. but years later.. I was still in it.. feeling like shi----
I had tryed to make changes in My M at the same time Go figure and so improvments did come about afte ri had the 1 foot in 1 foot out of the marriage mentality..you dont mind making demands when u feel you might not be in it for long.. anyway.. not sure why excpet to say.. It feels good to be on the other side .. I do feel a bit of a loss.. not too much maybe because in my opinion the A had run its course..and i think Op sees it this way as well.. I became more devoted to me family and H than OP.. over time.. and of course over time OP made some mistakes as wlll which helped get me to this point..
I know what I did was wrong. I should have gone to counseling myself..but out of not wanting the whole darn family to know how bad it was. I chose another route.. in the end I do think many family members knew something was wrong..
I m not even sure if my H has had an A or should i say done inappropriate things.. He did come home with makeup all over a shirt after being out one night with his co workers..( this was before my A) which of course helped to justify all I did..
I will need support i Know it..and i thank anyone in advance for your help.. right now Im just in the phase I know i needed to do the right thing an did it..and feel compelled to see it thru. I know one day I will be over it.. just going ot take some time.. somenoe posted to me a good 6 months.. well after years and years.. I can only imagine how long it will be..

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: holdyourbreath ]</small>

OWL, I can tell over & over by your posts and responses that you have really struggled with the honesty factor and it seems that your healing has been dependent on knowing EVERYTHING. You were deeply hurt and now it seems you are experiencing these "triggers" just as we WS's are. It sounds perfectly normal that seeing those "friends" names would give you pause and remind you about your W's EA. From what you've said about your story, though, you & your W are recovering and your R is going great. I am sorry that you still have lingering bad thoughts. It's good you can verbalize them and are in touch with them.

One thing that I've told my H several times when trying to describe what happened, is that it wasn't a competition. Especially in our cases of online EA's, being many miles apart. My H was understandably jealous & compared himself with OM. He e-mailed the OM & "threatened" him. Never in MY mind was I comparing my H with the OM, as if I had a choice to make. I NEVER thought in terms of this guy vs. that guy. It was 2 separate worlds. The EA was a fantasy that I intellectually knew would never develop into anything more. BUT, even KNOWING that, there were still intense, confusing feelings that weren't logical. Your W really knew that, too, even as she planned to meet the OM. Reality sunk in to her. The post I put up on fog yesterday is pretty much what happened to me. I felt "reeled" in and powerless, addicted before I knew it. Your W probably would agree. So, try to keep in mind that some of these EA's were not as though we were out seeking new boyfriends & trying to fall in love.

Speaking only for myself, I am searching for the HOW & WHY I was susceptible. This is the reason for keeping my IM conversations. Looking for things I said that may have spurred on the relationship (you talked about that a while back, OWL). I'm wanting to know what HE said to me that had me so mesmerized. I can then share that with my H (or at least help me define which EN it was). I'm wanting to know how to PREVENT myself from this situation again. KNOWING that it wasn't really about that OM, but that it was just meeting those EN's.

Does my H know about the files? No. I am struggling with that because he doesn't WANT to know any more. He doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He doesn't want to hear about how much I THINK I cared about OM. I have tried to tell him things on other occasions and he doesn't want to hear it. Not angrily, he just doesn't have the need to know. He may not be totally in touch with his feelings about it, and I am concerned about that and told him so. I think he's trying to keep it in perspective and move forward. He has been focusing on himself and also working on my EN's. I am very grateful for that and have a new-found respect for him. If he is working through this without aksing for every little detail, I am grateful for that. Do you think I should make him hear things when he doesn't want to? He is trusting me that it's over, and it is. I think that's all that matters to him. I have answered all his questions honestly & fully. I thought that's what we are supposed to do, let them guide the information flow.

Cards-

No, I would guess that if he doesn't want to know anything further, and doesn't want to talk about it anymore, I wouldn't expect you to 'force' the issue, unless you felt it was something that had to happen for you or for your marriage to recover. I would worry that he's still in the 'denial' phase of recovery...he's trying to act like it didn't happen, or minimize what it really was.

What you described does indeed sound a lot like what my wife felt during and after her EA as well. I don't know if she compared her OM and I or not, but I do know that I've done a lot of that myself. I too called her OM, partially to actually ask HIM to help her make the right decisions. It was civil for the most part, but I do have to admit to having warned him that "if you hurt her...". He didn't take that very well! LOL

Cards, if your H asked you if you still had any remaining emails, etc., would you be honest with your answer?

I am struggling with the honesty in that I do have things I will still look at. My H knows of something that I had looked at online with the OM's picture (and his family) on it after the EA was over. It hurt him that I looked there and still wanted to look there. I still have occasionally and when my H asks me, I tell him that I haven't looked there. He has never asked me if there was anything else...emails that I could look at. He would never understand why I would want to look at them and analyze them. He too has heard enough about my feelings for the OM and really doesn't want to hear anymore. I don't think that's denial as Owl was saying. I think it is that they have had enough information for them.
I think each BS is different in how much information they want to know and we need to respect them in that. If they want to know more, they will ask.

2B,

I think I would be honest in telling H I have mails & conversations. I would not want to share them though. I think that would be detrimental at this stage. Would he understand why I would hang on to them? Probably not really, but I think he would accept my reasons and let it go. My H is very forgiving and has a big heart. I think he has handled this whole affair (no pun intended!) wonderfully. I don't know that I would have been so forgiving and understanding if the tables were switched. He has genuinely taken some responsibility for what has happened.

Cards, it seems like your H is doing well with everything. You are blessed with how great he is doing and with him meeting your EN's. I agree with not wanting your H to see the emails and IM conversations even if he knew about them. If your H is like mine, he probably wouldn't want to anyways. When I deleted the emails from the OM in front of my husband, he only wanted to look at a few, and I carefully selected what I would let him see (or what I thought he could handle). Then he didn't want to see anymore.

I'm glad to hear that you've got such a supportive and loving husband, Cards. I really think that things WILL work out with you and him, as long as you hold to your end of the bargain. It's so easy to lose sight of how wonderful your spouse is when there is something else (or someone else) blocking you view of them...and it's amazing how quickly that can come back when that obstacle is removed.

And I think that you'll find that most BSs (at least the ones that care enough to come to sites like this for help) ARE willing to see their part in things. An affair is a real eye-opener for most people...even the WS!

Hang in there friend. I hope things keep getting better for you, and for everyone here who's dealing with this kind of issue.