2BN-

OK, so looking at the list of contact stuff you've still got, my first question is this...what of those do you have memorized?

Start off by deleting/destroying those first...it's an easy first step because you're not 'losing' anything that way.

Next...why keep any info on his wife anymore? She was never part of your life/fantasy anyway, so next step would be to delete HER from your contact lists.

Now, as far as his work phone number...you never used it but once, and that was post d-day...so why keep it? I'd go ahead and get rid of that now. As far as where he posts at...time to clean up the favs box on your computer anyway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last, follow through with what I'd suggested on your thread...change your password, and have your husband contact OM/OMW to have his password changed.

I want to share with you what my wife and I discussed at the last contact with her OM. She finally understood that any part that she kept of him, she kept a part of herself from me. She realized that in those little pieces, she was still holding back from fully committing herself to our marriage, and to me. And she saw how much that hurt me, knowing that as well. And in her NC email to the OM (it wasn't MB standard, but it worked), she told HIM that.

You need to realize that now my friend. Each of these little pieces are parts of yourself that you're still hiding from your H, parts of you that you're still not committing to the M. You've made your choice to stay and work it out with your H...and he's made the choice to do the same with you. Now it's time to keep your promise to him. Don't keep your heart split in half between two places...that 'whiplash of the heart' is what's still keeping you from healing. Your heart still isn't whole yet, because you're still holding little pieces of it back.

Now...it's up to you to fulfill your promises. Its up to YOU to start that last bit of healing on your heart, your marriage, and your husband. Do it, and you'll really feel better. Again, like the deleting stuff before, it's all going to be so relieving that you won't believe it until you do it.

Do it now, friend.

Karegh - The only thing I have memorized are email addresses. I did delete those out of my contacts. If I threw away his work phone #, it still would be easy for me to get again. I don't plan on calling him however.

As far as his wife's s/n, I don't know why I look at it other than to see what they might be up to. Really no need to keep torturing myself there. But it is memorized in my head and easy to add and check if I wanted to. This is my problem - NO SELF CONTROL to stop checking things!!! I do know that his wife changed her email from reading her away messages, so I do not have her current email for my husband to contact her with a NC to her/her husband(OM) if we chose to do that.

I really feel that I still have this addiction to check things and I have no self control there! If I didn't sit at this computer at work all day, it would be much easier on me!

Thank you for sharing about what you and your wife discussed at the last contact of the OM. It does help me to see things. I left the email that the OM left in his inbox marked as unread, so he cannot tell that I looked at it. I guess the next step will be to tell my husband about this note the OM left and proceed from there. Still scared, but if I tell my husband then he can help me through this!

2BN-

I have not forgotten about your question regarding confiding in friends about my EA, just haven't had time to put a post togther. Will try later today!

Hi "OWL", glad you're back. I hope you are feeling better! I hope you got the best wishes that 2BN & I wrote here for you a few days ago.

2BN-

Regarding your question about telling friends. I confided in one close workplace friend. My closest friend is a friend of our whole family. Our whole family is best friends with their whole family - our twin daughters are best friends with their twin daughters, we are best friends as couples, etc. These are part of a whole network of school/church people, etc, etc. I have decided (& my H) agrees to not talk to them about it. My feeling is that there is no reason to talk to people about it unless there is some help they could offer. I would consider this W my "best friend" and I am sure some day I will talk to her about it, but not now. I do not have any close friends that have been in the situation we are in (that I know of!).

I think my H does not want to share it with anyone because I think it would continue to make him feel like he failed, was an inadequate H, etc, etc. I can certainly respect that. I understand the need for exposure if EA's/PA's continue, but don't see the value of it in our case.

When I talked to my work friend, I was in a situation where I just needed to talk about it. I was posting here, but needed to get it out somewhere else, too. This friend is MY friend and not in our normal circle of friends. She and I relate very well together and have shared about personal things for years. She was very supportive and shared the fact that she had had a PA during her 1st M. Anyway, it was helpful for me to talk to her and I don't regret it.

I also have to tell you, 2BN, about another "trigger" I forgot about when we were talking about the "little pieces" of OM that we still have. I have a cologne sample of OM scent that I placed in my sunglasses case. The scent wore into the material and everytime I put my sunglasses on (which is almost everytime I go outside!) I smell that scent! Talk about triggers! I definitely need to do something about that!

HOpe your weekend went well!

Cards, Thanks for sharing with me. I can understand your point about not telling your close friend in which the entire family is friends with your family. My husband feels the same way as your husband and does not wish others to know unless there is a reason in which they can help. At first I thought just the support and prayer of a friend would help, but that is a big burden of information for someone to carry that is close to you. Our close friends are "family" friends as well, so it would be difficult. I'm not sure I would ever tell anyone in the future.

I do understand how you felt about having to talk it out with someone. I really think MC helped me with that because I was able to tell my whole story to another person and get it all out. Have you and your husband pursued looking for a MC yet?

Wow, about your trigger with the cologne! I would definately consider tossing those sunglasses!

I hope you had a good weekend and were able to get out with your husband alone! My husband and I were able to go to breakfast but it was not as pleasant as it could have been. I'll update my weekend on my thread, so check over there! Let me know how your weekend went!

Cards-

I got the good wishes from you and 2B...and thank you both for them!!

My wife and I had a good weekend. We changed our plans at the last minute, and instead of brunch we went shopping and out for dinner on Friday nite. She found a sweet gift for me with an owl on it (not easy to do!), so she was VERY happy with that. I like it a lot...we've got it hanging in our back yard now.

My friend, I really do hope you start VERY SOON to eliminate these 'triggers' and 'rememberances' from your life. Honestly, I hope you can start to do what 2V has done, and begin seeing this through your husband's eyes. It is sooooo unfair to him for you to be holding onto these things...and it's sooo unfair to YOU as well!!! You're doing nothing but hurting yourself by doing so...you're not doing anyone any good by keeping them. It's a distraction from re-building your marriage, it's something that just causes the pain of losing the OM to linger on and on. And when your husband learns of these, it's going to be one more pain that he's going to have to work through as well.

Start NOW friend. Please. For your own sake, if you can't do it for anyone else.

Hi Owl-

Yes, I have a couple things yet to deal with regarding some memories, but I am really not obssessing any longer about OM. I have nothing on my pc that draws me to "check" on him or see if he's on. The only thing I see is his "game" name at the game site we met on, which I honestly don't even notice anymore since he has never come back to that site. He may have changed his name and is not even using the old one, I really don't know. By the way, my H knows the name is still on the list. OK, the sunglasses thing. The scent is saturated into the material of the case, all I can do is throw it out, which I really don't want to do because it was relatively expensive and I don't have another one. I did refer to it as a trigger, and sometimes it does trigger me, but most of the time not. The other things I have is a phone number & the conversations saved to disc, which have been put away.

I have no intention of pulling up those conversations and reading them. It does not even appeal to me right now. 2 or 3 weeks ago I believed that I would want to pull them up someday and read them. Right now I have no idea when, or even IF, I will do that. I'm genuinely starting to feel foolish about the relationship, and I think I would feel more so by reading those things. So, I do see progress in the fading away of these things. I think it's dying it's own natural death in my mind.

My focus HAS been my H and M and how to repair and restore it. We are taking it slowly. I am still putting a "face" on the "why's" of what I did. I am looking at the bigger picture of what my life was, and how my EA resulted from not just my H not meeting my EN's, but how I allowed myself to get lost in life and all its demands. I recognize that it is my responsibility to see when giving and giving and giving is detrimental to myself. I, no one else, am ultimately responsible for the care of myself. I took a mental "vacation" from my normal life during the span of the EA. Not just from my H, but from my kids, friends, church, everything. I pulled myself out of the ratrace and lived in a fantasy, somehow still managing to get through the day to day life. This experience has given me pause to re-evaluate not only my M, but also my whole life. It's quite unsettling, but I think ultimately it could be beneficial for me and my whole family.

So,in the scope of things, the little remembrances of OM are just a small piece of what's really going on in the big picture for me.

Sorry for the long reply, Owl, apparently I needed to verbalize some of these issues for myself!! Thank you for getting me thinking!!

Cards-

Sounds like you're really doing awesome, and I apologize if it seems that I've misunderstood you!!

The 'feeling foolish' about what happened is actually a good sign my friend. My wife has had to deal with that too...so I can sorta understand what you mean there.

On the game site...I can relate to that too, as a matter of fact. I can still see when my wife's OM is logged in when her and I play...she doesn't, nor does she care to. I admitted to her that I'd even 'seen him' in game the other day...I'd logged on one of my kid's characters, and he happened to be on one of his chars that I used to group with right where I came on at...I didn't say or do anything other than go to where I was headed, and didn't mention it to my wife until this weekend. No reason to bring it up. For her, he's totally in the past, and she completely wants him to remain there. So the fact that he's back in game doesn't really bother her at all...but does me somewhat. I'm still working on focusing more on now..but I'm getting better at it.

I'd just like to point out to both you and 2BN that I think that both of you have really done an awesome job in working to recover your marriages...both of you have come a long ways, and that says a lot about you. And I'd like to thank both of you for your support and encouragement when I've got MY down days...

Cards, I'm glad that you are not obessessing about the OM anymore. I see you making some great progress here! I know with me, having the passwords to each other's account was the biggest issue I was dealing with. It still gave me "contact" in a way and I was still drawn to it even though the communication had stopped.

I know you are not planning to read those IM conversations anymore, and trust me, I do know what it's like to not want to let them go. I'm not sure if you remember that I still had a piece of jewelry from the first OM and also a picture of the first OM and me when we were teenagers. I had these still in my possession in January after the D-Day of the 2nd OM! I could not get rid of these on my own even though I wasn't looking at them or really wanted them! I had to tell my husband of them and give them to him to throw away. I in no way thought that the first OM was something I wanted to go back to, but yet I still held onto these "things". It's the same for this last step I took with the email passwords. The only way I would give it up was by telling my husband and having him help me to rid of it. Please consider telling your husband soon about these "things" so you can release yourself from them. If you cannot throw them away yourself, consider handing them over to your husband to dispose of. It was the only way I could do it!! I just know the longer I held on to these "things", the harder it was for me to get rid of them. I just don't want to see you like me and hanging onto "things" for a really long time like I did with the jewelry and picture of the first OM.

I know you will get there Cards, just as I did. I know you are really working hard to work through all of this and to work on your M. I can see a change in your thinking since your very first post. I was just like you in that I pulled away from everything in my life to live the fantasy. It was time for me to let totally go of that fantasy and any temptations or thoughts of it. I know you will get there soon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

Cards-

Just to add to 2BN's post...also think about future impacts as well. The longer you hang on to these things, the harder it's going to be on your husband when you DO tell him. And please don't even consider NOT telling him. This is all about re-building trust, and establishing your trustworthiness to him.

Well, OWL, I don't know about AWESOME, but thank you anyway! You didn't misunderstand me at all, I DO still have the OM thoughts but they are less intense and less frequent. I'm certain it would be BEST if I totally destroy what I have left, but I somehow think I'm using the knowledge of those things as a catalyst to change what was. Does that make sense?

My "progress" is due in large part to you and others here. Without the continued support of people replying and questioning, I would have been lost not knowing what to do or where to turn. It is a great mix of people here, some being blunt about what we need to hear and following the principles, but those of you that stick with us and listen are invaluable. It is so therapeutic to be able to converse with others in the same shoes.

That's great your W isn't bothered anymore by OM name, but I can certainly see why you would notice. When I have my games pulled up, my H pauses at the pc to see if OM is on. Of course at some point I did wish that he would show up, but I'm glad he didn't otherwise we would have had to ban that too! I have established some regular "friends" that I play with, so that has sort of acted to "replace" some things about the relationship with OM. But it definitely is CARDS ONLY!

Hope you continue to feel better!

GS wrote:



GS, I know FOM never has a thought about me... just got copied on an e-mail from him providing his and his new SO's mailing address to a mutual friend (like I really needed to see that). So clearly, he came out of this horrible episode with nary a scratch. I didn't suffer on his behalf, and there was clearly no need to, that's for sure. Besides, I have plenty of suffering to do on my own.

I so admire how well you and beavis have been working through this. You especially, GS, are way ahead of me and I'm envious, considering your d-day and NC was more recent than mine.

I truly feel like I have no value. I've been overcome with self-loathing lately. Perhaps that's the reason I felt unloved a year ago; maybe I wasn't very lovable. After playing to that weakness and giving me a false sense of worth for a short time, FOM then moved on with his life with incredible ease.

But I never stopped loving my H, and for some reason, H says he still loves me. For the life of me, I can't figure out why. How do you get past the guilt? How do you get to the point of feeling like you have some worth? I can't seem to find it lately.

OK, you two! Am I speaking "fog-talk"?

Cards, I'm not sure if it's fog talk. I know you are trying to progress and move forward with your M. Letting go of the pieces even if you aren't looking at them is a step in the right direction. I KNOW it's hard!! I just went and looked through all my "hiding places" and made sure I deleted or physically threw away everything...email addresses, phone numbers that I found still hidden in other places. It's all gone and I feel great about it! Now a few weeks ago I wasn't where I'm at now, but I think that email from the OM on Friday woke me up to what needed to be done!

By the way, as I was "cleaning out", an email was in my account from the OM to my husband asking for forgiveness. This email was written shortly after my husband spoke to the OM this morning. It was the step I needed to take for me, my marriage and for the OM so he can move forward with his marriage as well.

Hi all!
Did anyone catch a thread by Lilybelle a few days ago that posted an article called "The Awakening"? It's beautiful. I've read it three times and it has helped me a lot with guilt and self-affirmation. Here it is:
The Awakening

GBH, I've been thinking of your questions all day. My H and I are doing great, but I have struggles too. During the first three months really, every time I thought of OM and the way our relationship ended, I shuddered and felt horrible. You see, he was married too and in the end (after pleading with me to run away with him) he couldn't leave his W after all. So, not only did I betray my H, I was an OW to a married man and I didn't even have the backbone to be the one to end our A. I truly am a bottom feeder on the totem pole around here. I've never really put that out there in total because it is very shameful to me. Sigh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

But GBH, I absolutely refuse to let three months of mistake define me for the rest of my life. I made a huge mistake, but I take my strength in making positives results from those mistakes:

1) I'm learning first to understand why I did what I did, and to change my life and perspective to prevent it from ever happening again.

2) I'm striving to understand how people who are married 70 years can die completely in love with their spouse.

3) I'm working with my H to significantly improve our marriage and to enjoy being married every day. Not because I have to, but because I want to to be married. Taking actions to make this happen, instead of expecting it to happen inherently on it own. Love IS a choice.

4) I'm investing energy in myself and my own happiness. I'm investing in friendships and getting more out of them. I'm trying to get more hobbies and outside interests.

5) I'm connecting with my children more and working to be a better mom.

In a sense, I'm trying to develop into someone that I can be proud of....I say to myself that on January 10th, 2005 I started to become someone that I am proud of. I didn't contact OM, I started working on my marriage and my parenting skills, I invested in my own happiness.....and I started working on forgiving myself for my mistakes. Yes, I made mistakes, but I've learned so much from them and I will be a better person in the end because I learned my lessons from the test of the fire.

Really, I think this is the key...to get to a place where you are a better, more knowledeable person after the A than before it. Become someone you are proud of, and other men's opinions will mean less and less.

And GBH - how can you possibly say you have no value? Of course you do!! I have read some of your posts, and I sense someone very intelligent and intuitive. And, you are striving for your PhD, right? I'm sure there is a lot about you that is wonderful.

Do NOT let OM's actions dictate your sense of self-worth. Women especially have a tendency to do this so often - where our sense of self-worth is a reflection of what a particular man thinks of us. Relationships don't work out for LOTS of other reasons other than whether you were lovable or a good person, etc. I don't know specifics for your situation, but perhaps your OM couldn't handle breaking up a M, maybe he had doubts he could be totally committed to one person, maybe he is self-centered and decided he liked Marilyn Monroe blonds...whatever! It isn't because you were less of a person that didn't deserve him. Separate your self-worth from his choices. You may be jealous of his new GF - stop yourself. Be happy he has moved on because you are too. Bitterness is toxic to you. You have the better deal....a long term marriage with a H who loves you.

And BTW, your H loves you because he knows everything about you and likes ALL of who you are. Not just the fantasy, lovey dovey stuff OM saw. That is true love...my H knows all my faults, including the biggest mistake of my life, and still loves me. Now who is the better man - OM or H? My H stood by me in the face of complete betrayal - I think that takes enormous strength and I admire him for it. You are a lucky woman to have found such an strong man, and you deserve his love.

So, this answer is windy and I'm sorry for that. My best advice is to get off that e-mail distribution list and find every way possible not to hear about OM, which I'm sure triggers bad feelings for you. NC really is good for you in the long run. And, separate your sense of self-worth from OM's actions. They really have zero to do with who you are.

Ask your H to make a list of the things he loves about you. And you do the same for him. Watch him for 24 hours and make some notes. Write them down here and post them. It feels good.

And...do fun things with him. It really helps affirm why you are married.

Hope this helps,
GS

PS - and if it makes you feel any better, I read that men do get over break-ups much faster than women. BUT, a year down the road is when they feel the regret. Women don't usually do that. So, by the time OM feels regret, you will be so over him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wow, I spend the day being silly on other posts and come across my GS in hurt mode <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

the lovely GS wrote:



Awwww, GS, it IS the little faults, nuances and your mannerisms that define you, that only I am intimate with. It is what connects us together, to share in your idiosyncracies and vice versa. It is what defines mature love, not as exciting as romantic love, but a deeper, more soulful love that connects us on a higher level.

I stand by you because of my deep love and respect for you. You have been there for me as well. Do not sell yourself short at all. I cherish the moments that helped create our memories together and look forward to formulating new ones that enrich our lives together.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />



You are not a bottom feeder my love, you know how much I hate carp <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> seriuously, I know you have to work through your guilt, but dont let it define you for the rest of your life. I have been with you for almost 9000 days now, you say you had 90 days of misguided direction. 1% of our time together... Do you think we should let it define the next half of our lives together in a negative way?

My hope is it will define us for the better, we now see each other and appreciate each other in ways that were dormant, taken for granted and shoved aside.

Again, I stand by you GS, we are walking hand in hand down an exciting path together these days, full of understanding, communication, devotion and respect.

I love you with all my heart GS

beavis

Thank you GS for your post, it came at a good time for me! I am so happy for 2BN and her strength, and it is making me really examine what is holding me back from totally letting go. I think part of it is how my EA ended. I still have unanswered questions. He ended it, but left it hanging open. I would've much preferred a definite ending with honesty. I don't know why that matters, but it seems to. I know most here don't believe in "closure", but that is what I struggle with most.

I am thrilled that you and your H are on such a wonderful road together. Beavis is so in love with you and it is very uplifting to "see" you talk to each other. You have deep respect for one another, and it is evident that you two are falling in love all over again! It certainly would appear that it holds true that everything happens for a reason - even your EA..... so that you and Beavis would find each other again. I hope I find that silver lining for me and my H too.

Thanks Cards. I know you have struggled with the ending of your EA, and wanting closure. I totally understand those feelings.

If you look deep though, you know why he ended it. It came down to either you or his W. And, he chose his marriage. It's a good thing...painful, but good.

Try and take heart that he left it open because that made it easier for him than saying a final goodbye. Maybe he left it open because that didn't hurt so much. He cared for you, but loved his W. He was scared for his M and scared of getting caught. He's probably promised his W he won't contact you.

Try and be happy for him that he chose the right path in the end - that is what helped me. He just couldn't say goodbye to you, probably because he cared for you. The price was just too high. It would be for you too.

I know you would have liked a nice goodbye. I had a nice goodbye, still felt horrible. Two weeks later, he called me to say he missed me and couldn't say goodbye. Then, two days later called me to say a very firm goodbye....and his wife piped in towards the end of the call to throw her two cents in. Ugh.

Really....goodbyes in these situations never feel right. I had two (a nice one and a not-so-nice one). Neither one felt very good.

Hope some of these thoughts help a little. I know it hurts. It gets better with time, especially after you have really closed on the door on OM. Remember that just like Beavis, your H loves you very much and is a good man.
GS

{{{GS and beavis}}} Thanks. You two are awesome. I printed both your posts our so I can read them when I get down.

BTW, masters, not PhD... I'm a little smart, but not to that degree (so to speak)!!

Thanks, GS. I have analyzed it to death, and I have thought of ALL those things which are right and logical. I think the question is about ME. Why will I not allow myself to accept those reasons and move forward? I'm guessing it has to do with my R with my H. Unlike 2BN, my EA was relatively short. My H doesn't view the situation as a "serious" A, or that he was lied to and deceived. There is some but he simply has moved on from it. I think this is partly where my problem is. I have viewed this experience as much "larger" than he has. I have tried to explain this, but I don't know that he understands it (or wants to). Maybe he is in denial. So, whereas I think our M is in a crisis, he may believe it to be less urgent to repair. I see where things are returning to where they were before. Where Beavis, & Owl, & 2BN's H saw the wake-up call, my H is not.

I DO think our M is in a somewhat better place than it was before the EA. We have had some good communication, so I do see some improvement with relating to each other. I do believe we are BOTH trying in this area, and we are taking the time to be together and talk. Maybe I'm just being impatient and need to give it time.