Hello all,

I haven't posted in a while but I've been lurking now and then. It's good to see some of you are doing so well. It's been hard for me to post much because my H reads everything I post so it's not easy to be open with my feelings. We haven't been doing that well, both of our faults.

Owl I have a question for you. Your wife was ready to run away with the OM so she must have had pretty strong feelings for him. Don't take this the wrong way but, how was she able to fall back in love with you? I'm struggling with this right now. Did she have to wait until the withdrawl was over? How long did her A last?

I don't know if my H and I can work things out. I feel like i've been so hurt over the years that it's hard to get past it. Now he's ready to change but it might be too late. I was just wondering since it sounds like your wife was almost ready to leave how you were able to turn it around.

win

Win-

I'm not sure on exactly how to answer your question, but I'll do my best.

My wife's EA lasted a few months...I'm not sure (nor is she at this point) on exactly how long...no more than 4 months, but the "I love you" phase was about 6-8 weeks I think.

In my wife's case, she felt as though she was slowly falling out of love with me as she fell more and more in love with OM. I got the standard "I love you, but not in love with you" speech on d-day. She isn't the kind of person who can easily be 'in love' with two people at the same time, and since she was investing emotionally in OM at the time and not me...you get the picture.

Once the EA was ended, and the contact between them broken up to the point where they weren't really able to be emotionally intimate, her withdrawl hit HARD, and it lasted for almost a month. But, during that time, I was 'plan Aing' without even knowing what that was...all I knew was that I loved her, and that she was hurting, and that I wanted to do whatever she needed to be better.

She really never stopped loving me through all of this...she just couldn't see her love for me because she was blinded by the OM. Once he was irrevocably out of the picture, and I was still there, still loving her, she came back to me. It took time for her to truly realize what she was feeling, but it was there.

Win, I'll be honest with you friend. I suspect that in your case, you don't WANT to give your husband the chance at this point. You're afraid that what happened will always be held against you if you DO stay with him. You're not sure if the changes he's made will stand, but I would be surprised if that is the real issue that's holding you back...it seems to me that it's more that you're afraid of what life going forward will be like if you do stay.

I'm also curious...if you've gone this whole time with NO contact at all with your OM??

Just my thoughts friend...please don't be offended.

Owl,
I'm not really afraid that he's going to hold the A against me at all. Rather I have so much resentment and pain from what happened before the A. I knew I was falling out of love with H before I even met the OM. I just didn't want to deal with it. H was always more interested in shutting me out and playing video games 5-6 hrs a night, until 2-3am. Only getting off the pc for sex. I asked, I yelled, I got mad and told him that we needed to spend more time together and he just shut me out. He also would take trips with his friends, lying to me about how long it would be until the last minute because he knew I'd get mad. He'd say "you'll live" when I complained about him being away from the children and I for 10 days. THEN he wouldnt even call for days!

I think I felt shut out and shut down for a long time before the A began. I know I was lonely and bored so I began chatting with people. It felt so good to have someone who loved and cared about me and wanted to talk to me. I couldn't help it, I fell in love. I don't think at that point I was in love w/my H. I just don't know how or if I can go back. I told H a few months ago, that I was unhappy. The A had been going on for 6 mo. at that time, but it didn't really have anything to do with the A, I was unhappy w/ my M. He didn't really address my issues. He said he didn't know how to give more and basically I asked for too much.

Well, NC. I have not maintained NC with OM. We didn't talk for a few weeks and then we had a kind of closure. He said he was sorry about what happened and thought we should both move on. It did help me. We are still friends and talk from time to time about music. He's made it clear he doesn't want more. He has told me about his new gf.

OM isn't what is holding me back from M. I feel the fog lifting more everyday, but I don't see any clear answers. Now H has said maybe we should break up because he can't take the drama anymore and doesn't see me being in love with him anymore.

win

Win-

I can imagine how difficult it is for you. It sounds like your H and my W were doing similar things...for at least a year prior to her online EA, she would log 16+ hour days playing online games...ignored the house, the kids, me...etc... It boils down to two things, IMHO.

One- You BOTH have the choice to let go of the past. It's the only way that either of you can heal...period. If you continue to hold the past against him, and/or he holds the past against you, then you'll NEVER be happy. That's just bottom line.

Two- I know that you feel that the OM has nothing to do with the lack of feeling for your H. But I've been around enough to know that that just isn't true Win. Ask ANYONE on this site, and they'll tell you that it's just not possible for you to begin to reconnect with your H if you're still in ANY kind of contact with your OM. You're not going to be willing to give your H the chance. I realize that you feel that your case is different...but EVERYONE feels that way when they've been in your shoes. I know my wife felt that what SHE went through wasn't the same kind of thing...but now a year later, she can recognize that it WAS. Think about it...seriously think about it. And ask around on the board.

Hi Win - I just wanted to reinforce what Owl stated above. This is ENTIRELY TRUE. I still had some contact with the OM after D-Day and I know it prevented me from totally reconnecting with my H. It's impossible to reconnect in your M, if you still have a connection at all with the OM. I was able to reconnect somewhat, but not until I entirely let go of everything with the OM was I able to start the emotional connection with my H and M.

Owl,
It's very hard to let go of the past, when you've been hurt. HE still has selfish behaviors that I don't know if he can overcome. Withdrawl has been very difficult. The A lasted for a year and I have many memories of last year at this time. I've told H over and over that I needed some time to get over withdrawl before I could think clearly. He hasn't been very able to give that to me. He keeps LB me about it. We are in MC and she says that we need to deal with the resentment to get over it. It's been very hard.

What can I say about the OM. I understand you all say I should have NC with him. The contact certainly doesn't give me the thrill it used to. We're not close anymore. Most of our intimacy was on the phone and we haven't spoken since January. I know that I still have withdrawl from the relationship. All I can say is it's been hard. I don't really talk to him that much anyways so I should just stop.

-win

Yes Win, stopping would be best for everyone. I know. I've been where you are. There are memories and the more you continue with the contact, the more those memories will linger even if you aren't talking in the same way as when you both were in the A.

I understand it's very difficult for you to let go of the past with your H, but if your M is going to have any chance at all, NC has to be in place.

Yes, I've been dealing with the OM and the withdrawl. But I've also been trying to figure out the M. I'm not sure I had feelings before the A. I know you may not believe me but I distinctly remember thinking 1 1/2 years ago, am I sure i want to buy a house with this man when I'm not sure I love him anymore. But I didn't know how to force him to deal with our issues. He always has a way of arguing me into a corner so that my feelings are discounted. Fine he wins the arguement, but I still have the bad feelings. And I feel like he didn't even listen to them.

He's trying to change, but he even said last night, he doesn't know if he can be unselfish. We've been so set in a pattern of dealing with eachother, as you all know, it's hard to break.

I can't just say, oh well, I won't think about how I felt ignored and controlled for 10 years and move on. Unless I pretend, and I did enough of that the last few years. I just can't do it anymore. I want to be real with myself and my feelings. This is what they are. It will take time to change them. And I don't think that every marriage that follows the MB rules can necessarily work. You all must know it's not that easy. To follow a formula and then be in love. There has to be something there.

I know I need to do my part and try, but it doesn't mean that it will work. There's no guarantees and I don't want to settle anymore.

-win

But Win, you'll never know for sure unless you DO your part.

I agree...there are marriages and situations where reconciliation may not be possible...the people involved may not be able to change, or the damage done to each other may be too great to overcome...but THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW UNLESS YOU DO YOUR PART.

And your part in this would start by starting a REAL NC.

This is up to you...it's your life. If you decide to give up on your M, there is nothing anyone can do to change that. But remember this....there is NO WAY that your marriage stands a chance of getting better if you don't do your part. Its just not possible.

Owl,
Yes you are right. I understand. It's very hard to try when your heart isn't in it. I guess I should try and fake it and if we don't make it then at least I've tried. In a way, to me, trying feels like giving up. I don't know why that is. But I guess that's where I am.

I will work on NC. There hasn't been that much contact. I really can't think about never talking to him again, but I will. It will be better for me anyways. Really I just don't want to think about either one of them. I just want some peace.

Win-

I don't think that anyone who's at the point you are right now has their heart in their M. There is rarely much desire to reconcile when you're still in the withdrawl/fog. I know that my wife had no real desire to work things out with me at that point...but look at us now!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Something else to consider friend. You've mentioned that you weren't happy for years prior to the A...can I share with you that my wife made the exact same statement to me when she was still in the EA, and for a while afterwards while she was still in withdrawl/etc... This drove me crazy, because I just couldn't see it...I KNEW that we had had problems for about a year prior to to the A, but for years?!?! I just couldn't see it.

So, once the A is over, and the withdrawl finally starts to wind down, her perception changed. Over time, it went from many years to the last few years, down finally to what I knew was right....for the last year or so. But when she was still dealing 'foggy', she was convinced that it was years.

That doesn't mean that you're wrong, that in your case that it hasn't been years. What I'm trying to say is that your current perception of your M as a whole is probably somewhat distorted by your overall mood and situation...it seems far more hopeless to you now than it might to someone standing out and looking in.

Several people here have used the phrase "Fake it til you make it". It really CAN work, as long as both of you are working toward the same idea.

Good luck friend...and keep us posted!

Owl,
I wasn't referring to my perception of my marriage right now. I know that it is distorted from the fog. I was referring to feelings I had BEFORE the A. Things I remember thinking years ago. I busied myself with the kids and the house so I wouldn't think so much about being unhappy in my marriage. The one good thing the A did do, is make us face the reality and get my H's attention. Because nothing I had done prior would ever work. In hindsight I should have stood up more and given him an ultimatum. He now knows how serious things are and has changed a few things. But there are still selfish things he does that he doesn't realize. I'm trying to let him know every time it happens.

I can try faking it. But I don't want to slip back into my complacent self. AND I don't want him to think everything is fine now and not continue to address these serious issues. Plus I don't want to get his hopes up and then decide things aren't going to work out after all. I guess that's where I am. So I really haven't done anything. We have been in MC, and it's been slow and difficult. He's been very defensive about it. I just don't want to settle for something so-so. I may have done that when I was young by just staying with him since I was 16, because I was afraid. I can't do that anymore.

-win

Win, you sound like you have a lot in common with my wife and our situation. You sound a lot like she did a few months back in the immediate aftermath of d-day. I can't tell you that we are all hunky-dory now, but I can tell you that we went from her telling me "I WANT to WANT this to work out but I'm 99% convinced this marriage is dead, I don't love you, I love OM" to a sincere, NC, sincere "I love yous", and " I WANT this work out". A month or two ago she told me she wasn't ready to work on us, that she was still dealing with the withdrawal, she didn't want to talk or anything, she just suffered. Here we are 3 months past d-day, 8 weeks of NC and I can honestly say we both have hope.

That said, we both agree that we aren't anywhere near where we want to be , but we can both see that it could work out and we are going to do what we both can to get there. I have complained out here a lot about a lack of progress. Honestly, I'm just impatient for my wife to feel the way I do (totally, head-over-heels in love), I think this has made it hard for me to see all the progress we have made.

Enough about me -Win, I don't know you or your husband, but in my situation, what I want more than anything is to talk to my wife. No matter how hard -I need openness and honesty from her about what she's feeling, what she's planning and where she thinks we are and what we can do to make it better. So much of our trouble came about b/c we didn't know how to talk about the hard stuff and we let it slide and build up. We thought were had a great relationship b/c we never argued. Now we are learning to talk, a little bit at a time. Talking is going to heal us and get us back together. It sounds like your husband has put up quite a wall against hurt -maybe he's not as tough as he sounds. Maybe you can show him that you can both talk about painful things without attacking each other -just accepting the hurt and trying your level best to accept the emotions as legitimate and that the troubles between you can be resolved.

Faking it isn't the only thing to do -you need to couple it with working on the things that caused the A in the first place. I think that faking it though might help bring back those old feelings -kind of pad the way on an otherwise painful path to recovery.

I can see in you the same confusion my wife had and still has to some extent. I can't help but think that any delay in your recovery though may well be due to continued contact with the OM -just end it. I t will do you and your H more good than I can tell you. I n fact, it's essential. Any thought on your part that it's OK, or benign is simply confused thinking.

So anyway folks, I hope you all noticed the watershed moment I alluded to above. Yesterday my wife said "I WANT this to work". She had no idea how much that meant to me. We're not there, but I think we're both on the road now. She wants to talk, and I think we layed out some good ground rules and made it clear that talk was vital at this point.

Sys-

Glad to hear that things are starting to look up a little for you!! Keep up the work and hope, my friend!

Win-

Basically, what I was trying to tactfully say was that your memory of what the marriage was like before the A is probably not as accurate at this point as it would have been pre-A. Your memory of those prior events is colored by your current situation and feelings...so it's possible that what you feel your marriage was like prior to the A wouldn't match up at all with how you would have described the same time frame PRIOR to the A.

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense or not. Perhaps Cards or 2BN might be able to explain this a little better.

I think that Sys has the right of it too...fake it til you make it only works if you're doing the rest of it...meaning working on the issues that lead to the A, and most of all...COMMUNICATING.

I can say that my wife really started communicating with me once the A was out in the open...because at that point, she felt as though she had nothing to lose by being honest with me...for the first time in a LONG time. Perhaps this would be a point for you and Bass to start at...start TALKING about what you're really feeling and thinking. And start LISTENING to each other. Quit reacting instictively to what's being said, and respond to each other as respectfully as possible. Sometimes agree to disagree. Make THAT the first step after fully commiting to NC, and see where THAT leads you in a few weeks/months. I'd bet you'll be amazed. Again, think about it...it was that kind of communication that LEAD to the A happening...and it CAN lead you back to each other as well.

Crads

I wanted closeur too. These were my choices:
1. Stay married and "forget" OW
2. Leave W and be with OW....nope not
possible OW didn't want that
3. Live alone in a cave somewhere
4. Find out why I made the choice to have an A
what was missing in me and how my choices
not only determine my happiness but the
happiness of those closest to me. To become
a whole person who could have a real
relationship with the one who really wanted
to be with me.

H
( I chose #4)

OK Hiker ... you've TOTALLY redeemed yourself ... I retract my previous telling you to "shaddup" ... you are da'bomb!

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hope everyone is doing well today.

I'm really doing some struggling today and need to verbalize it here. If you (Owl, Cards, Sys) remember when the OM sent an email of forgiveness to my H about 2 weeks ago, the OM stated that he registered under a new name on the forum where he posts. I honestly wish he didn't write that information to my H!! Because what do I do???? I found him! It's not too difficult to find someone in which you know their writing style (since I talked to him for many months) and know what topics he would most likely write on. And yes, I verified and know "for sure" it's him. He apparently uses the same password over and over again for everything he does online and I was able to log on with his s/n. I KNOW this is wrong (for me to do that)!! But why do I do this??!! Does this OM want me to find him by using this same password? I mean why not use a different password, or maybe he doesn't think that I would be so bold to try it?? I haven't told my H this and not sure if I can or will. Why can't I just be strong enough to not look on that forum?? I really enjoy reading there, but why do I have to "not go there" because "he" is there??

I'm sorry I'm just venting here, but I really need some sense knocked into me and some help with why I keep torturing myself!

2BN-

SIGH...


YOU are the only one who can stop you from doing these things.

You've been doing great...but you keep doing this stuff, and it's going to be the end of your marriage if you don't quit. Seriously, everyone has a final limit of what they can take, and if you can't draw the line in the sand at some point, your husband may!

As long as you keep going back to this site, as long as you keep doing all these little betrayals that keep the EA going in your mind, you're NOT going to fully recover your marriage. That's about all I can say. You KNOW this...it's TIME to start doing it!!

Help me!

There's so much going on here on this thread and my time has been limited. I want to talk to you all. Does anyone know how I can "reply" to several responses in the same post? When I choose "reply" it only shows me the body of that one post. Is there an easier way? Thanks!

Owl, is it really a betrayal from your point of view (as a BS) to go to that site? It's a Christian forum and I do enjoy reading the posts there. Honestly if the OM would have never told my H that detail, I probably wouldn't have found him there. I happened to run across a post that seemed like a reply of his and it checked out to be him.

Sometimes I want to be mean and "call him out" on the forum publicly for "who he is". But then again, "who am I?" for what I am doing right??

I'm very frustrated with myself and I know it's only ME that can make me stop, but I'm having trouble. Seriously!