Cards, scroll down to the bottom of the last post and use Quick Reply. That's what I've been doing, so I can see what everyone has posted. You can then scroll back and forth between what you are posting and what others have posted.

2BN-

YES!!! I DO SEE IT AS A BETRAYAL.

You're NOT just going there to read the forums...as you've proven to yourself this morning!

Even NOW...a year later...my wife and I have debated the use of MSN messenger because that's what her and the OM used to communicate, and he used his work 'address', so it's bound to still be there and active. She's got no temptation to talk to him or anything now...but neither of us really want to even raise that little bit of doubt. Even though there are a myriad of other ways that contact could happen, it's the INTENT, and the taking the chance that it COULD happen that is the betrayal.

OM has started logging back into the game we played...guess what...pretty much without even thinking about it, my wife and I have all but quit playing it for now. Or the few times we HAVE played, it's been on other servers where we don't think he's ever there.

Think about this...and think HARD. It's ONE MORE THING that you're going to have to tell your husband about now...


You're comment about "I really enjoy reading there, but why do I have to "not go there" because "he" is there??" really struck a chord in me...when my wife was still in the last vestiges of fog, she was insistent that she should still be allowed to remain friends with the OM. "Why should I have to give up that friendship because it crossed the line once?!?!" All I can say is...."Why would you NOT give it up if it's a step you have to take to save your marriage???"

Sorry my friend...not going to let you slide on this one. You're a good person...now take the steps you need to!

I understand most of what you are saying, Owl, but I am not talking to the OM at all. Yes, he happens to post there, but I'm not posting on the threads where he is. I was JUST reading there JUST to read, but as soon as I found out he changed his s/n, yes I do admit that I was looking to see where he may post. For what? I really cannot explain why? I'm not going to start communicating with him. The OM has turned off his PM feature to his s/n, so no one can contact him through PM's and that includes ME! I cannot contact him unless I wrote directly to him on a thread and I won't do that. The OM has only made 9 posts since April 21. He does not post very often for me to "follow him" with what he may say.

I had asked my H awhile ago if it's ok for me to read on that forum. He said OK. Now this was before he knew the OM registered under a new s/n. My H has no understanding of even how these forums work, nor does he really even care to try to understand. When I told my H how the OM and I had met and that we had PM'd each other for many months before we switched to email, my H said he has no idea what that is. I may sound like I'm trying to justify here, but really what is the harm in reading there?

Hmmm....what is the harm in reading there?


Well, you may run into the OM there....oops, that's already happened.

Well, if you saw him there, you might do something to see if you could see how he's doing, maybe even log into his account....wait, done that too.

Can't you see how constantly going back to the site where you 'met' the OM is going to do nothing but provide you with a constant reminder of what was? Not even including the fact THAT HE'S STILL THERE. Just going there keeps that 'wound' open. Add to that the fact that you now know he's there, and it's even worse yet.

It sounds to me like you're looking for any reason you can to keep going there...regardless of what impact it may have on you or your M.

Look...my last comment on this. Do you think your husband is going to be OK with you going back to that forum now if he knows that the OM still posts and goes there? Do you think that he'll be ok with the fact that you hacked the OM's account when you suspected it was him? Do you feel he'll just calmly accept all of this, and not have any heartburn about it?? Q.E.D.

2B, I had a simialr situation. My W was involved in an on-line game with the OM -they were in the same guild. Even after she stopped playing, she remained in touch with the guild via their website and forums. It killed me to know that he was there. I could see the forums so I knew there was no back and forth between them but just the idea that they were there in the same place, seeing eachother's posts even made me a wreck (yes it may be irrational but isn't that what these tings are all about?).

She has pretty much stepped away from it now and I know that he left the guild and so isn't around out there. Now I feel like that one thing is gone and I feel much better. My reaction isn't as strong as Owl's, but my perspective is different. Either way, it's probably best to go find a new forum and just leave OM behind -forever. Otherwise, really your at best handicapping yourself and at worst, ruining you efforts.

2BN -

Thanks for the posting tip! I have to respond to you immediately, right NOW, because this seems like an emergency!!!

Is this a betrayal? I think you know that it really is - ask your H that question. I believe he would feel betrayed. He believes that you have been working hard to rid yourself physically & emotionally from OM. It's also betraying yourself and your M. You HAVE worked HARD to this point. How will you feel if you continue and next thing you know you're chatting with him on the forum? You will feel awful and defeated.

You HAVE to stop because this manifests itself as CONTACT even though it's only one way. We all know what the CONTACT does to us - it draws us back in emotionally, which is what this is all about. It re-starts the addiction. I KNOW you KNOW that.

2BN, I empathize with you so much. Fortunately, for me, I do not have the temptations to come face to face with my OM online as we did not have any "sophisticated" secret ways of communicating. I am not saying that I haven't looked or watched for him where we met, but we have not run into each other. I KNOW that I would struggle with this too. This is Win's struggle, too.

I can't remember exactly all your contact dates, but what was the longest period of time of no contact? Remember how it got better and better? Now, since the whole e-mail thing you have sort of started back to square one. You have to gut through some of that withdrawal AGAIN!

You can do it. Your H is counting on that. Like OWL said, don't risk it again. Maybe you have to cut yourself off from the pc totally. Is that possible? (of course that would cut you off from this site as well). You also need to dig deep into yourself to see why you have these patterns. You have needs that haven't been addressed long before these 2 EA's.

I'm so sorry that you are struggling. Go back and read the advice that you have given to me and others on this thread - AND TAKE IT!!!

2BN,
I agree with Cards and Owl completely. OM can no longer be a part of your life in any way...let go.
GS

Thanks for your thoughts Sys and Owl. Yes, I know it's ruining me to know that he's there. As soon as the OM wrote that piece of information to my H, I knew I was in trouble with wanting to see if he posts. I have changed my s/n on that site and I have NOT told the OM this. I have only posted a few times with that s/n, but will no longer post now.

In either of your opinions, why would you think the OM let my H know that he changed his s/n? I had thought it was to make my H at peace to know that I won't see him posting there anymore, but in reality, by the OM stating this, it made me a wreck inside. He didn't need to say this because by him saying that he changed his s/n, he was letting me and my H know that he still plans to post there. How dumb is that?? Why not do it quietly so I would not know?

Cards - Thanks for replying. So we need to count this as contact even if I just read his posts??? I am not communicating with him and he has no clue I know who he is on the forum. I am not secretly talking to him. I just read his 9 posts on the forum which really don't even tell me anything of what's going on in his life.

I really wish I wasn't so tempted to keep checking. It's a real problem I have! I can't possibly be off a pc at all! I work on a pc all day.

I've run out of time here as I need to go...just to let you all know that I've known about the OM's s/n since last Thursday. I am just now admitting this and I seriously think I need some serious help with my temptations!

2BN-

"why would you think the OM let my H know that he changed his s/n"

In a word, 2BN, IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!! This is the same kind of stuff I obssessed about - in our last conversation why did he say he'd see me on the site, why did he say don't call me "for awhile", why did he say this?, why did he say that? IT DOESN'T MATTER!! You can't get in his head and understand his thinking. You both agreed it was over, you agreed that it was wrong, he said there would be no more contact. It doesn't matter what was in his head at all. YOU know it was wrong, and YOU decided for yourself to save your marriage. If you are committed to your M it doesn't matter, even if he did it intentionally to try to stay in touch.

Sorry for being harsh, 2BN, but I know you have to hear it this way!

2BN-

What does the OM's motivations in this MATTER?!?! Who cares WHY he did what he did...it should be irrelevant to you at this point. The fact that you're even asking that question should clearly point out to you the danger you're in again.

THIS is why I suggested you seek individual counseling. You need to find a way to deal with these temptations when you have them.

This still counts as contact...because you're watching him interact with others at least. It's the same as if you were standing in a room watching him talk to someone else across the way.

So when are you going to take this to your husband?

I hear what you all are telling me.....I just have a question...Am I that 'abnormal' to be obsessed with this? My apologies if I state this incorrectly, but Owl, your wife was still logging into the same site where the OM was. Sys, your wife was still on the same site where the OM was. Cards, you said you still look where you met the OM even though you have not "seen him". I know Owl, you say your W was not trying to find the OM, but it was still being in danger of running into the OM. When did she stop this? Will there be a point when I'll stop obsessing? I just don't know how to have the willpower to stop looking there! I know in my head all that I did was wrong and yes it would hurt my H to know...especially logging into the OM's s/n to verify it was him. I KNOW it's wrong. I would want to tell the OM that I know his s/n and tell him to stop posting so I am not tempted to look there!!! I KNOW I can't do that, so it's really up to me! Way back when my H and I were in MC, my H told the MC that I was still looking at that site back then and she told me to stop. She told me to think of everything about the OM as 'fat' as if I were on a diet and to stay away!


Also, if I never mentioned this before, I never really posted much on that forum to begin with. I mostly only read and then I posted to get help with the first OM. I probably posted less than 30 posts on that site. I was mostly a reader. But...the OM started to "help me" through the PM's. That's where I posted most with him. Not that any of this matters, but just know I wasn't a regular poster there.

I probably won't be on here again until tomorrow. I do appreciate all of you trying to help me. I knew I had to be honest with this so I would "come clean" with it and do something about it!

I would say that you're not abnormal...but you DO seem to have an issue with self-control. It's really just a matter of setting limits, and stay within those limits....PERIOD.

As far as how long will you be 'obsessed'...it depends on a few things. One of those is how often will you give IN to that obsession? If you give in easily, you'll stay obsessed longer. If you can use some self restraint, you will find it gets easier to deal with the obsession when you're not giving in to it as often. And since you've found yourself in multiple situations where you've been 'emotionally wayward', it seems to me that this is a key area that you need to seek counseling on. Boundaries...it's all about setting boundaries and sticking to them.

I hope that you're planning on bringing your husband in on this latest development. If he knows that you're going there, I'd hope that he could help you develop a plan for dealing with this as well.

I had posted replies but it didn't take, now I forgot what I wrote! Anyway...

2B-
I don't think you are abnormal at all. I can relate. My OM has a website that I was checking daily and emailing him occasionlly through. I didn't think it was contact just looking at his page to see what he was up to. I guess it is still contact? It's just part of the addiction of the A? But you are not alone in trying to find restraint! I'm still struggling with it!

-win

2BN & Win

The three of us all are in same boat. We are ALL 3 still going through the pain of withdrawal. We have differences in our stories and have been at different stages on and off, but the end result is that we've all had trouble letting go (like MOST WS's). You are certainly not abnormal, 2BN, I and Win totally understand the pull. We understand the obsession, too.

I have certainly not been infallible in the area of breaking away - you all know about the things I kept, etc, but I have had longer no contact at this point than both of you. I really believe that is the KEY if you can only persevere. 2BN, even though it doesn't sound harmful to just read OM posts, remember our discussions about the smallest little triggers putting OM back in our heads? If you were to actually be on a site at the same time that could prove to be too much temptation. Who knows what would happen next? Then what???

I can tell you that each week has gotten easier for me. Think of GS's story. At 10 weeks she felt very strong, and now she is focusing on her H totally. Win, even if you're unsure about where the M is going, the process of withdrawing from OM will help you at least focus on that issue, just as you and Owl have been discussing. I have seen in myself the pull diminish just in the last 4 weeks. 2BN, I do recognize that both yours and Win's EA's were much longer than mine, which probably makes the withdrawal period much longer than mine & GS's. That means you need to give yourself more time. Don't expect to be over it quickly - expect that you will have to allow a block of time of no contact.

I can't help but think the recent upheaval with the email situation has taken you back. Those were necessary steps for you to take, but unfortunately brought you back too close to the situation. Yes, I admit to noticing if OM is on my card site and THANKFULLY he is not - I am very lucky in that regard. And Sys' W and Owl's W hit their sites, too. But that doesn't make it OK, it just prolongs the healing.

You both have much more pc knowledge than me, 2B & Win. You may just have to figure out a way to put OM out of reach, because having them lurking is just too tempting. Surely there is some way to irreversibly block the s/n and websites?

As far as the definition of contact, I think it really should be defined as ANYTHING that puts the thoughts and memories back in your head. We've all talked about the little pieces of things we saved, and we've all admitted those to be "triggers". In a way these things act like contact and re-addict us in the same way as a conversation might.

You know ALL this stuff. I care about both of you, we've shared a lot here. We've supported each other and I want you both to be able to move forward and have clarity with regards to your M. All this I am saying also helps reinforce things in my mind, too.

Step by step, ladies.

Good morning everyone! Thank you all for your words and concern.

Win - I can understand how you feel with having trouble going to the OM's website. We have this curiosity and addiction to still look where the OM may be! It is very hard to break that addiction!

This is a very difficult thing for me not to go to that site. I have been going to that site and reading there most every day (and several times a day) for well over a year. It's a hard habit that I need to break because the OM is there. Just to clarify, Cards, on this site, I cannot tell if the OM is logged on or actually looking there when I'm there. I can only read his posts which aren't many. There has only been 9 posts (as of yesterday) over a 3 week period. That is really not alot of activity, so most days when I've been on that site he has not posted.

I would have to say that reading the OM's posts do not pull me back into thoughts of the A at all. It's more of a curiosity about what he would write and it left me with NO feelings of "wanting him". If anything, I got mad that he is posting and more mad at myself for finding him! Duh...that could have been prevented right??!! But at the same time, yes, it lets me know he's still around and I guess I liked the thought of being able to know that.

Owl and Sys, I know you said your W's were still on those sites. Do you really think that they didn't have a curiosity to see the OM there? At least back at the stage where I'm at now? They 'may' not have verbalized this to you, but I'm sure they had the curiosity in their head. Not to say that any of this is right, but just having you think about where I'm at.

I was not able to bring this up to my H last night. We are having some major issues with our oldest that needs to be dealt with and that is taking over our thoughts and conversations at home. I just can't pile this on top of that.

So my plan for today is to try my very hardest to not go to that site. I will take this day by day. I'll try to get through today and think of it as a small step for today. If I can get through today, then maybe I can get through tomorrow and the next day and so on. If I get the urge to go there, I will come on this site and read here, or read on another Christian forum that I know of. I just wish it weren't so easy on these computers to make a little click and there you are at that site!

As you said Cards, step by step!

2B, my W's activity on her particular site is a bit more complex than one might think. She was guild leader for a long time and was close with a lot of people on that site -they played an on-line game together for years. I think actually loosing contact with a lot of her other in-game friends made the withdrawal even harder. She wasn't just cutting off regular contact with the OM, but with a lot of people that she was close to. From what I've seen as well the OM wasn't a big poster. All of this is why her activity there didn't bother me to the point of seeing it as a breech of NC, but I do admit to a sense of relief the more she distances herself from her former guild. She is still in touch with a few girlfriends from the guild and actually they've been a great source of support for her over the last few months. So all in all things have worked out pretty well.

BUT, if I thought she was cruising a board or a game hoping to see what the OM was up to, I would be very concerned and anxious. What I have come to see in terms of my W's on progression is that the NC was definitley a stepped process. First she tried and failed, then she made limited contact b/c she was concerned abou his mother being sick and his well-being (I know a rationalization), then the NC went into place and she's been good eversince. But at one point in the beginning she was in sporadic contact with a RL friend of the OM -but then that ended as well. I still don't know for sure if that was a coincidence or a deliberate attempt to get or recieve info about the OM, but it has stopped as well. I know she felt tremendous guilt about ending the EA for the hurt it caused the OM as well and knowing her she was worried about how he was doing. Doesn't make it any easier for me to accept but I do understand -besided that was in the beginning of NC and the fog was very strong at that point.

Point is, I think it's normal to slowly back away in terms of NC, but it does need to end in a timely manner. You can't drag it out. if there is something holding up the termination of the attachment, you need to work on that.

2BN, since you have the temptation to 'check' on OM's posts and struggle to resist, you will have to take preventive action, protect yourself and totally block that site from your PC so that you don't have access to that forum AT ALL. Speak to the IT department in your company and ask them to block it for you - I know it can definitely be done. And if you have internet access at you home PC, ask the IT people how to block it and do it at your home as well, or better, get a IT technician to your home PC and asks the person to do it for you. It will be worth the money. In this way you won't get tempted to unblock it again because you won't know how!

And yes, I agree with all the others - checking in on OM's posts IS contact and hurtful to you, your H and M and emotional betrayal towards your H because it put the OM in the front burner of your mind AND you keep it secret from your H, but obviously you're in some kind of 'fog' and denial about this.

Suzet

2BN-

Of course my wife was still curious how the OM was doing when she was still at your point of things. BUT...when we were at your point in things, we weren't logging into the game where he'd been at all...and neither was he. There was still sporadic contact for about a month and a half after d-day, that ended in a big issue between my wife and I when she realized that I wasn't going to be able to accept her keeping contact of any kind with him...even as a friend.

We hadn't seen ANY indications that the OM had been logged into the game at all until this past month or so...so for nearly a year, we'd seen NOTHING from or about him.

While I'm sure that my wife did occasional wonder how the OM was doing and faring after everything, I know that she did NOTHING to find that out on her own...nor did she make any effort to contact or see anything about him during that time. She knew of a few of his RL (real life-people who he knows in person, and not just 'in game') friends that were in game when we'd gone back and started playing, but she did nothing to contact them or him.

From my perspective, the difference here is that you SEE where he's been on the site. You've logged into HIS account. You've taken active steps that demonstrate that you're NOT clear of this addiction yet. And if you're not clear, you need to take drastic measures to get away from the temptation. This is why SH says there should be NO CONTACT at all...and that makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

If I knew that my wife did something TODAY that had anything to do with her OM, I'd be EXTREMELY hurt. And it's been a year for us. I'm sure she's out of that 'fog', that addiction. But it would hurt like heck if she chose to take the risk of doing anything to jeopardize what we've worked on so hard.

Hope that perhaps this gives you some additional perspective on things. Can you see why so many of us are so adamant that you HAVE to take some serious steps to get away from that forum now?

Hi Sys - I would classify my NC as a stepped process as well, but it really should never had been that way. I'm not sure how much of my story you had a chance to follow. 3 weeks ago the OM left me a message on his email account to which I still had his password and he still had my password to my email. This last contact from the OM was to let me know the outcome of a situation with his son that I was concerned about and prayed for. So, I can relate to your W with still having concerns. But, I also realize now that I have to let go of all of it. My first real NC at all started 4/25, even though our communications for a month or so were very minimal if hardly anything. I pretty much just knew he was "there" by having his password to his email. As of 4/25 I changed my password and the OM changed his password. This was the first real NC for me. But...then the OM had to let my H know he regiestered under a new s/n on that forum. Big temptation for me to find him there!

Previous to this knowledge of the OM changing his s/n, he really wasn't posting there except for asking prayer for his son and another incident. So, I could just read there not worrying about him "being there". I guess he must feel a "need" for himself to be there. I do remember the OM telling me he had no other Christian friends beside me! What a "Christian friend" I was right? So, I suppose he likes to be on that forum to learn from other Christians. I can't let myself worry about that though.

Suzet - Our company doesn't have an IT dept. I work for a small co. of only 11 people. I don't know myself how to block that site. It's really going to have to be me having the willpower to stop looking there.

Owl - I understand your point. I know I have had this addiction with wanting to know about the OM for months! D-Day was 12/29 and now it's 5/12 and I'm still thinking of him. I obviously have this big struggle I'm dealing with. Now I'm not thinking of him in the way of getting back into the A, but just thinking of him in that curiosity mode. And by knowing the OM is posting on that forum, my curiosity got to me and I sought out to find him intentionally. I can remember a year ago the OM telling me that he had struggled with sending a birthday card to his former OW! His A had ended 4 years prior and he was still struggling at times to know about her! He absolutely had no contact with this woman over all that time and still had struggling thoughts at times! I don't want to be that way 4 years from now as the OM was! We must all deal with this so differently as your W has no struggles right now with wanting to know about the OM.

I have not looked at that site at all today! I'm doing my best to remain strong in this!