Sys-

I have not found any parallels re my EA and family history. My parents have had a wonderful 50 years together of true love and happiness. My H's parents were also happily married until his father died 11 yrs ago. What we DID learn was to not quit. Even at times through the years when I wondered if we were to be "happy" again, D was not really feasible in my mind. I believed that simply "feeling" unhappy did not warrant D. Hhmmm, maybe in this way I suppressed and stuffed frustrations because I perceived no way out. Who knows? Probably good and bad with all those learned perceptions. It does make you wonder what our children are learning from us, doesn't it???

I do believe, however, that we tend to replicate patterns that we have lived in, even though we fight and work hard to do the opposite. I laugh at myself as I become more and more like my mother, doing some of the things that had irritated me when she had done them.

Interesting thoughts, actually. My wife's first marriage was plagued and ruined by adulterous behavior of her first H...at one point, with her SISTER! My wife DID have a ONS payback thing during that time...but none of that really has much bearing on what happened between US.

Neither of our families have a history of infidelity, other than her sister's mistake. I came from a pretty disfunctional family, but at least the cheating was minimal (as far as I know...LOL).

I thought it was interesting that you mentioned that D was never a thought for you while you were in your EA, Cards. That kind of surprised me, unless it just didn't get the chance to last long enough to get to that point. I know that my wife and her OM were talking about the fact that it would have to happen someday, in order for them to really be together.

Owl,

I was referring to times BEFORE the EA when I thought about D, realizing it was not an option. As far as during the EA, we (OM & I) had not spoken about D-ing our spouses. At the point of d-day, our R was just approaching possibly meeting. We had not gotten to the point of making plans to be together forever or anything like that. I really don't know whether or not meeting would've really happened, as both of us "agreed" early on that we would not risk our families.

Also different with my EA is the fact that we did NOT discuss our marital problems with each other. There were very few references to our M's. Only a few times we expressed dissatisfaction at home, I believe it was sort of a foregone conclusion though. Again, this might have all been coming down the road, I don't know. These facts about my EA tend to make me believe that this OM was intending to use the EA as many men use the PA, just for fun. I do believe, however, that he became emotionally involved as the EA progressed and the R evolved. He had previous PA's and I think the intensity of the EA caught him off guard. Even so, I doubt that his attachment to me was as intense as mine to him.

I think it's interesting that I found out that my mom wanted a D during her marriage. My dad was out every night playing in a band and wasn't there much for us. BUt what I learned from my mom was how to be complacient in a bad marriage and I think that's worse than if she had D'ed him. What I learned was not how to confront problems and that it was okay for the husband to basically ignore the wife for his own hobbies etc.

Hi everyone, I tried to keep up with reading yesterday, but my writing time was limited.

I was thinking about what Owl had said about that women are more prone to be lured into an EA. It seems that all of our cases are different even though there was an EA involved. I would have to say that I believe that the OM in my situation became more emotionally attached to me first. It could be because the way our EA evolved and that I was still attached to another OM when I was first communicating with the most current OM. But, after we exposed our feelings to each other, I asked him several things that I always wondered in my mind about different comments he said to me over those months prior to admitting our feelings. It was confirmed that he was having the attachment feelings toward me even though they were not directly expressed.

As far as history of A's or EA's in my family. There are none in my immediately family that I know of. I do question my Mother's promiscuity before marriage though. She seemed to always push me towards guys and even encouraged me to meet guys while we were on a family vacation while I had a bf at home. This is how I met the first OM on vacation when I was 16. She encouraged this and even took pictures of me and this boy (who became an OM 24 years later!) back then! So it was something that I was told it was "ok" to do. Could this have affected me long term? The way I met my H is that I was dating his best friend in college and my H (to be at the time) and I snuck around and cheated behind my bf's and his best friend's back. Do these tendencies repeat themselves over and over again? In my case, it does seem so.

Hope everyone is having a good day today. Today is our 19th anniversary! My H gave me roses and a sweet card this morning and we had a nice dinner out on Sunday in celebration of our anniversary.

2Bnormal, just want to pop in and say:

[color:"blue"]HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TO YOU AND YOUR H! CONGRATUALTIONS![/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Enjoy this special day together and may God bless you and your H in your continuous recovery! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Suzet

Thank you Suzet! We won't be able to spend much 'together' time today, but I am so very thankful for my H and the committed man he is to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Happy Anniversary 2BN!!!!

Hello,
Well I'm still struggling. The weekend wasn't very good. I didn't talk to OM but I did relapse into chatting online and almost phoned with someone when H wasn't home. I was a bit tipsy at the time. I just wanted to escape and have some fun. I realize it was a mistake.

H broke into my accounts and read this stuff. He also read that I had talked to another OM about meeting when H is out of town at the end of the month. This was a couple weeks ago. I wasn't really serious about meeting him. I was just depressed and angry and flirting a bit with this guy.

So anyway H said we should split up. Which is probably true. However, I really have a hard time thinking of hurting my kids this way. At this point I have no feeling for H, but I hate to do this to my kids. So sunday I told H that I would quit chatting, have NC with OM. That I would try to stay for the kids.

H now thinks I'm ready to jump into his arms fully and have some SF! I am so not even there yet. He then gets mad because I'm acting depressed and in withdrawl. All this time he has not let me have any space to be in withdrawl and deal with it, so I want to run away and talk to OM again! I know it's wrong I'm just saying what I've done. He doesn't seem to undertand its hard, its painful. I need time. He says hes lonely and wants SF, I'm just not there yet.

Ok I know everyone is going to come down on me.

-win

Owl,
I wonder if you might help my H in how to deal with my withdrawl issues? He need guidance on working on plan A.

-win

Win-

Well, your H is free to contact me here if he would like to talk...we can either start a seperate thread, or take our conversations to an email forum if preferred. I'd be glad to help him where I can...but please realize that I am NOT a counselor of any kind! I'm just a techno-geek who ended up going through some very tough times in my life.

Win, I think that a large part of the reason you're STILL feeling so depressed and down is because you're still in contact...not with the OM, but with all the OTHER things that have replaced your H. All of the flirting, the chatting online, etc... ALL of that is a replacement for what you should be getting from your H...and as long as you're still involved in ANY of that, you're preventing any improvement in your REAL life...the one OFF of the computer and phone.

You need to start identifying when and what provides you the opportunity to get into 'trouble' (i.e...drinking, being online alone, etc...) and start taking steps to avoid these circumstances. If you're not able to control yourself, then you and your H and your family should be allowed to HELP you to do what you need to do. Bluntly, he should disable the internet when he's not at the house or someone isn't there to 'keep you out of trouble'. Things along those lines...clearly you're trying, but you don't have the willpower to stick to it.

It's interesting that you say that your H 'broke into' your emails and such...because I'm sure that you know as a WW you should be ALLOWING him access to all of this. It's being accountable for your actions that will help you to start doing the right things.

I can totally understand that you're not ready for SF yet. Realize that the most likely reason your H is looking for that actually has little to do with 'lust'...SF is a BIG emotional need for most men. It's symbolic of the emotional joining that also takes place...and it's very common for this to be a point of contention when a couple is at the point that you two are.

Talk to him about it. Try to let him know that you understand his need/want, but that you're just not ready for it yet.

Hang in there. I honestly think that if you can manage to get yourself to the point where you're totally out of this habit of online flirting and phone conversations, and you've finally gotten ANY kind of other men out of your life, you'll gain a whole new perspective on things. And on yourself. You CAN do this...with help. Get the help you and your family needs.

Owl,
Yes I understand that. The bottom line for me is I don't know if I want my H anymore. Maybe I'm using the other men to not have to deal with my feelings. We have so many issues, I can't detail them all here, some things I just don't know if I will be able to get over. I know everyone says when the withdrawl ends I will have feelings for my H, but I don't know that will be the case. And am I suppose to stay with someone I don't love because I should? Maybe I'm afraid that I will go back to what it was before, me just pretending all is ok, when I don't feel anything. I just can't do that, I just can't.

All i can focus on now is NC with OM. That is a struggle. I emailed him friday, but I have not chatted with him in a week or more. I still struggle with it. It's gets easier knowing that he really doesnt want contact with me. However it sure doesn't feel good. The other men, I don't even care if I ever talk to again.

However I am a social person and I do miss just talking to friends I made online. Maybe someday I'll be allowed to just do that.

Win-

I know you don't want to hear this, but it's the absolute truth, and it bears repeating...NO ONE WHO IS IN WITHDRAWL OR AT THE END OF THE A EVER FEELS LIKE THAT THEY ARE LIKELY TO HAVE ANY FEELINGS FOR THEIR BS AGAIN...NO ONE!

It's the bottom line...your case is not unique or special in that. And if you've looked through this site at how many WS/FWS HAVE regained those feelings, then you can know, at least in your mind if not your heart right now, that there is still a chance for your M too. You know what...don't even worry about that right now. Right now, concentrate on doing the right THINGS, and deal with feelings about your H later, when they do or don't return.

Sending an email is still contact, regardless of whether or not he responded. And THAT is why I am saying that you need to take EXTREME measures to start helping YOURSELF to do the right things. You obviously don't have the self control to do them yourself. So work out with your H how HE can help you to do this.

Bottom line...YOU, as an adult...need to start being RESPONSIBLE for your actions. YOU choose to flirt online, make phone calls, send emails, etc...YOU! Regardless of how this started, YOU are the one who's continuing it...YOU are the one who is choosing to keep it going. See a pattern? So the changes need to start where???

Quit worrying about the OM, quit worrying about your H. Start worrying about YOU doing the right things for yourself, and for your family. You mentioned that you didn't want to split up because of what it would do for your kids...but if YOU keep on doing the destructive behaviour, YOU will force a seperation/divorce. Not your H, YOU.

You really haven't even started the real withdrawl...you still have to get the OM out of your life, and all the other men you're flirting with.

Putting the 2X4 away now.

Start working with your husband to come up with a PLAN on how to figure out what you're doing in the future...seperation or reconciliation, most of your first steps all need to be the same. You still need to take the steps needed to heal yourself and your husband.

Owl,

I know you are right. I do want to maintain NC so I can see for myself how I feel after the withdrawl is over. What worries me is how i felt before I'd even met OM. How my feelings for my H were already gone. But all I will focus on now is NC with OM. That's as far as I can think right now. That is painful enough for me at the moment. It seems when I get overwhelmed or pushed, that is when I seek out the others or go back to talking to OM.

H needs to let me go thru withdrawl before I can even deal with him and his needs. I'm not sure he can ever change, and if he can't after I'm through the withdrawl, then I will still have to go. I'm not going to live like I did before and I'm not going to let him be selfish and controlling of me ever again.

-win

Win-

Focus on NC with the OM, AND WITH ALL THE OTHER OM you have been flirting with!!! You need to do ALL of that, or it's meaningless. Make whatever changes that you need to in order to make this happen...like I suggested, ask your H to help you with that if you need to.

And you know what...if after you've done all that you needed to, and your H hasn't changed, or you've just totally been unable to regain your feelings for him, then of course you should work with him to move on. That only makes sense. And no one here is asking you to do anything else...all anyone wants you to do is to make that choice only AFTER you've done all that you need to do, and quit worrying about that day until it arrives.

So what's your PLAN to ensure NC with OM, and to end all of the online and phone flirting?

Win-

Owl is doing a fabulous job talking you through this, but I just want to jump in on this comment you made:



Win, you may or may not have feelings of love for you H when withdrawal ends, but you will be able to think clearly and have reasonable thoughts about where your M stands. I am probably 90% through withdrawal and I still can't exactly identify my feelings for my H. I probably couldn't define them BEFORE the EA, so how would I be able to now? BUT, it is a place to start. Both parties recognize what has happened and both parties realize that something needs to be done with the M. So....... yes, focus now on getting OM out of your mind. THEN, after withdrawal, look at your M through "unfoggy" eyes and decide what steps to take. You and your H need to know that it will take time for you to work through the withdrawal.

Agreed...the bottom line is that you need to postpone making any decisions on your R and your M until you're able to do so with a clear head and heart.

You can't do that while you're still involved in any fashion with anyone, or still in the withdrawl from a relationship loss as well.

Yes owl you are right. It takes all my effort to work on NC, that I just can't focus on anything else right now. It's very hard for H to deal with. He wants me back, and now. He wants OM out of my life now. I'm trying to do that. It's taking all the effort and energy I can muster right now. I still miss him horribly. It's going to take time.

Owl my H (bassistist) is posting on the divorce forum.

Thanks for 2x4'ing me without killing me!!

-win

Getting him out of your life doesn't take any time at all....that's actually very simple. It's the grief that you deal with AFTER that happens that takes the time and work.

At this point, he's not totally out of your life, if you're still emailing him. Again...what's your PLAN for ending all the contact and flirting and such?!?! I'm not going to let go of that...you HAVE to plan this out, or you'll just keep falling back into things. I'll take a look for Bass's post, but still not letting you off the hook here, my friend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Win-

I wanted to ask you about this:


What's the status on this? This was an excerpt from Bass's thread.

Take a look at what I posted on his thread, and what I suggested as a start in your 'plan' that I keep going on about.