Thanks owl for being very supportive. If I didn't need everyone's help and support I wouldn't have posted here to get 2x4'd!

Everyday does get a tiny bit easier, but it's still very hard. I still think of OM everyday, and it seems there's always something to remind me of him. Last night I had a dream about him. Don't know how i can control that. But I haven't contacted him so for me this is good. I just keep reminding myself that he's over me and there's no reason to go there regardless of my current/future situation. But I can't say I don't think about it and it doesn't hurt. But that's why I'm posting here, so I don't go there.

staying strong for me
-win

Win - You are doing so well with the NC! Proud of you! The thoughts and memories of the OM are going to be strong right now since you are just starting NC. I do understand that so well and I remember the hurting feelings that you are talking about. BUT..It does get better I PROMISE!!! If you keep up with the NC, those hurting feelings that you describe will start to go away. It takes TIME, but you will get there! How are things with you and your H right now?

Win-

I've got to say I'm actually very surprised that you don't hate me at this point. I know that what I'm saying to you a lot of times is NOT what you want to hear. Believe it or not, I don't do it to hurt or attack, but to try to get you to see things from another perspective.

I KNOW how hard things can be in this kind of situation. I've been in something similar. Not the same, and I'm also not you or your H. But I know what I felt going through my situation, and I've learned a lot about my wife's feelings and thoughts during all of this.

Seriously, take what I suggested to heart. Start looking OUTSIDE of everything for some distraction from your withdrawl. And do it WITH your H...even if you don't feel love for him, he's still at least a friend to you. Start working on something outside of all of this with him...and don't let the issues get involved in whatever it is you two work on. Make an agreement to keep it seperate from all of that.

To put it another way...start off by repairing the FRIENDSHIP with your husband that's been damaged by all the years of things first. Then worry about anything further after that. Building the friendship with him will also help you get past the loss of the OM...it will.

Hang in there. You two CAN make it.

Good job,Win!!

You WILL continue to think of OM, but the hurt will become less painful as you stick to NC. Each day you will become a little stronger and more resolute. You will be able to talk yourself out of it faster and easier than the day before. Work hard to avoid the situations that draw you into to feeling like you "need" OM. Being alone, on the pc, etc.

The pain you feel as you withdraw is what you will need to address for yourself, like JL implied. It's too raw right now, but in time you will see that the pain is about something inside you, not really the loss of OM that you didn't really know. It's all about YOU. Keep posting and writing, Win. I know that being able to do that was instrumental for me. I thought everyone would get tired of my endless feelings and postings, but they didn't. Everyone will keep supporting you as you fight to get out of this.

Owl,

I don't know if we 2 can make it. But we do need to try repairing the friendship. Basically we have to start a new relationship. We never really had much of one according to MC. He's never been emotionally intimate with me and he's got so many issues to work through on his own. We are 2 different people now and we have to see if those 2 people are compatable and can be in love. I can't go back to the way it was before, and I CAN'T stay with someone I don't love. However I have to see if he is someone I can love. As soon as I stop loving OM!

H still has a driving need to control me and the situation, and I just have to keep reminding him that it's going to take time and I can't rush through this. If he would just give me the space, I think I could move on much faster.

WE are planning to do some things together and go to some concerts together.

-win

Ah man, things are going so well, but now the OM posts this on my W's old guild board and I know she going to see it -don't need this crap now.

"Thank you ****, my friend and partner in more than just a silly game. I owe you more than any ding, and I miss you terribly."


I can't stop her from seeing it if she goes there. Not sure what to do about it.

I want to punch the [censored].

Should I contact him directly and tell him to pull it?

Sys-

Not sure what you can do about it. Contacting him and asking him to pull it isn't likely to do much good. At least that's my guess, I have no idea about what kind of person he is or how well the two of you knew each other.

Another option MIGHT be to tell your wife that you saw the message, kinda giving her both a heads up that he'd posted something, as well as letting her know that you're AWARE of his reach out for her.

The kind of contact he's doing is called 'fishing'. What he's doing is sending a 'completely innocent' message out to her, and he's hoping that she'll respond. And then, things end up going on from there. It's not a surprise to hear that he's doing it...my wife's OM did the same thing via email about 6 weeks after d-day...about 2 1/2 weeks since their LAST contact.

Sadly, it 'kinda' worked in my case too. She didn't respond to THAT email (she told me about it when she got it), but she 'accidentally' copied him on an ecard the next day, and he sent an email to her OTHER email account. That one she DID respond to...and that's the one she didn't realize that I'd seen because I was checking her email accounts. This all lead to another big blow up between her and I, but the good news is that it lead to her sending an NC letter to him. There was one more slip on her part a week later, but then HE was the one who told her not to contact him, and that was the last communication that they had.

If you have/had any kind of friendship with the OM prior to the A, then you might consider contacting him yourself and asking him to pull it. If you think he's likely to be stupid about it, then you're better off talking with the wife, and telling her both what is there, and your fears about the whole thing. Share with her my story too, and let her know what he's up to. Make it clear that he's playing a game with her to see if she's gonna fall back into the whole thing.

Sorry you're going through this my friend. I KNOW what it's like.

Thanks for the speedy reply Owl. I didn't know the guy at all so maybe you're right -just thought I could step up and tell him take a hike.

I just noticed the post date -it was early yesterday afternoon -she may have already seen it.My thought is this -we have an MC session tonight ,I might just bring it up there.

This chaps my hide soooo much. I really thought things were in the clear. I have no idea how this will effect my wife.

I know what you mean...remember we've had to deal with the fact that my wife's OM just started playing again recently too.

Honestly, it's up to you if you want to wait until tonite to talk about it, or talk about it before hand with her. Be careful not to LB her with the whole thing...wait and read her reaction to this before you say or do anything else.

If you're able to post on that board, you might also consider posting a reply to it saying "Hey, this is [Sysyphus], xxx's husband. She sent you a letter a while ago asking you to never contact her again. I'd appreciate it if you gave US the courtesy of respecting her wishes in this and not trying to start something up again. You know that you're no longer welcome in our lives."

Don't know how your wife would feel about that response, but that's another possibility.

On a side note...you and I should go back to LS, and use the PM system there to exchange email addys, so if you get something like this you can get a quick personal response if you need it bro.

Sys - I would definately speak to your W about this either prior to MC or at MC. If it had happened to me, I may be tempted to write something back. Also, that very last email the OM sent me, my H called the OM just to make sure there would be no further contact. Don't know if you have this guy's # (and it doesn't matter if you know him or not), but it may be worth it for him to hear your voice and for you to let him know personally that you wish for no further messages to your W...otherwise he may continue his "fishing". Sorry this is happening to you.

I was going to take a half day anyway so I think I'll take advantage of my youngest being in school and talk to her when I get home. At first I was so wound up I thought it should wait until tonight, but frankly I just want to get to this. Maybe it will be good for us.

Thanks all.

Sys-

Good call. Talk with your wife and work out a way to handle this latest development....TOGETHER!!

Make it a chance for the two of you to HEAL instead of letting it be a setback.

Well we talked. The results were mixed but mostly good I think.

When I got home I got right to the point and told her I went out to the forum and saw the post and asked if she had seen it. She said no -that she doesn't go out there that often.

Well, that's the bad part. Right before I left for home, I checked the board again and noticed she was logged in. So her "no I didn't see it" was pretty much a big ole un-truth. I told her that I had seen her logged in. She apologized and I told her that THIS is why I have trust issues. She was upset that I had to spy on her and I tried to explain that this was exactly why -I want to believe her but when I catch her in a lie about this thing, that it just reenforces my mistrust. Concealment has become so easy for her it seems.

Either way, she told me she didn't rise to the bait and didn't plan to. That she has been good all this time -which I believe. In the midst of our discussion I guess the whole "please be open and honest whith me" plea worked because she told me that a while back OM had expressed his desire to contact her through a mutual friend to which she said no. I was glad she could tell me that. Wasn't happy that she hadn't told me in the first place, but was glad she told me now.

We took the opportunity since we were already crying, to talk about a few other things. She was really hesitant to talk, but I gently coxed her into saying something. She wanted to tell me that she didn't want a physical relationship yet. I told her I figured that was a given and that she shouldn't feel like I am even trying or hoping at this point. Told her it would be her call when to resume. I did tell her that I am extremely attracted to her and desperately want to have a relationship again, but not until she was ready -in the meantime, I would have to deal with it.That discussion brough up a whole host of issues that I had with our sex life in the past, our mutual withdrawal from each other ,etc. A good amount of tears, but neither of us beat the other up. We did express our feelings about behaviours that were upseting us (me keeping tabs on her and her concealing things from me).

The most upsetting part to me was that she said she hoped she could find romance with me again. I know she's not feeling "in love" with me right now -maybe never, but GOd, what can I do? I'm happy to here she hopes we can reconnect, but at the same time we both seem so convinced that it's a longshot. I'm so in love with her. This feeling of unrequited love is devouring me yet still I soldier on. Sometimes I feel like the pressure to fall in love all over again is going to doom us to fail. Hurry up damnit -fall in love!

The other thing that worries me is that despite the NC -that she still sees OM as a fallback for happiness in case we don't work out. She's had a taste of new love and I can't say that I can give her that. How can I be new to her? How can we overcome 14 years of good and bad and feel those feelings again? I'm not sure what her requirement for being "in-love" is.

Well at least we have something fresh and meaty to chew on at MC tonight. Thanks all for getting me over the hump this morning.

Sys-

Well, it does sound like mixed results. I'm sorry that you found her in another lie again...did she say WHY she lied about it? I just can't imagine why she would lie about something like that, especially since she knew that you had seen his post.

Bluntly, while she may feel like you don't have a right or reason to 'keep tabs on her', she needs to recognize that there is only one way for her to regain your trust. Through a lengthy time of verified, accountable behavior. She has to demonstrate to you that she IS trustworthy, and the only way that can happen is if you have the means to VERIFY that her words and actions match up. You might consider talking about this at MC tonite. And she needs to be aware that right now, as a result of her EA, you are hyper aware of ANY lie or deception. Even if it has nothing to do with what's happened, it's still going to be difficult to deal with.

I think you're doing well by not pressuring her too much on the SF, and re-building your M. Like I'd suggested to Win earlier on this thread, work on rebuilding the friendship first. But, make sure that she understands that your M won't just magically 'be better' all on it's own...it's not until she CHOOSES to start working on repairing that part of your lives that you can hope to see any real progress. My wife had to learn that the hard way too...but she did. Again, you might see if she's read my thread on LS...as it seems to be so similar to your own story.

Hang in there friend. Hope MC goes well, and you both have a good weekend!

Sys-

Has your W been open regarding her withdrawal process from this EA? Has she talked to you about how she has felt better with time, the ups and downs? Has she tried to explain it to you? You have been living with this for weeks and months and have gotten the sense of improvement on many fronts. You have communicated well with her and she with you, right? You have had several breakthroughs and very emotional conversations. You have had some reconnection, right? My point is that you will have to assess whether she is still foggy and "snowing" you, or if this was just a blip. No question, she was wrong in denying that she had seen the post. Yes, she has to know about the trust issues and the hurt for you, etc. I'm only suggesting that you take a deep breath and not jump to any conclusions. You have seen on this thread and others that oftentimes it is 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. My H & I experienced that not long ago when he read this thread.

There still may be some withdrawal for your W as well, meaning there may be a situation or trigger that makes her brain falter and be weak.....maybe only for 1 minute or 1 hour. And maybe it happens only every few days, then once a week, then once a month, but less and less frequent in any case if there is NC. Seeing OM post undoubtedly made her weak for that instance, maybe causing her to make that bad decision of not being honest about it. I know that I had been doing great, then all of a sudden today I am struggling. For me not even a OM trigger, but a lot of job stress and other unrelated stress.

Again, I am not defending her action, just trying to explain maybe where her head was.

She has been open to a point. She tells me when she's down and when she's feeling better and more optimistic, but honestly, she is painfully uncomfortable talking to me about the EA and the NC other than she's doing it. She has been confiding in some girlfriends for support -not unlike how I've been out here. I wonder still if she really understands the wrongness and the hurt -she says she does but I don't get the sense that she has completely broken through on that area.

As for why she didn't tell me, I believe it's all part of the same pattern that got us here in the first place -she's scared to upset me. She doesn't want to hurt me. I don't know if she gets it yet, but again today, with this as an example I explained to her that nothing hurts more than the dishonesty, the concealment and the betrayal of trust. that I NEED her to show me I can trust her. And that I need to verify that she is being honest. That I simply can't take her at face value for now. It really kills and offends her I think that I don't trust her ,but she needs to put that on herself. Up until January 29th 2005, I trusted her absolutely and unconditionally, in 5 seconds, 3-4 words and a glance, that was shattered and it's going to take A LOT on HER part to put that back together. As I told her once a while back, even if we don't make it, as the mother of my children, I need to be able to trust her.

I do believe that in her heart, she is sincere in making the effort. I understand that there will be mistakes on both our parts. I wish I could make us both perfect, but obvioulsy I can't and this one blip won't be the end. In one way I think it served a good purpose in that it perfectly illustrated my trust issues. That's not how I thought it was going to go or where the discussion was going but... At least it wasn't anything too major. The going is slow, but perhaps this is still a step in the right direction. We learn from our mistakes right?


Yeah that's the sticky part ain't it? For now she seems to feel that doing NC, going to MC and making an effort to spend time together is what is neccessary. I still feel like I'm the one that has to lead the emotional repair work. As with many things in our marriage, I am the initiator. This is OK for now, but at some point, yes, I'd like to see her take a more active role in the work.

Thanks again guys. Just when I was worried I had nothing to contribute to the thread....

Hmmm....you might look for a tactful way to talk tonite in MC about whether it's GUILT that's holding her from talking to you about this, or what.

I know that guilt is the main thing that has prevented my wife from being able to deal with some of our conversations rationally. Case in point, the issue we had the other day. Something was said that made me think about the past, and made it feel like she's always going to have a part of herself held back for OM. It's not what she meant to say, but it's how I took it. She knew something was bothering me, but I didn't want to bring it out because I KNEW how she'd react...and she reacted exactly as I expected when she finally INSISTED that I talk about what was on my mind. She blew up. She used her standard phrase..."this is NEVER going to end", which I hate.

We have worked things out, but I wanted to use that as an example for you on why my wife doesn't like to talk about the EA with me, and think that perhaps this is why she hasn't talked with you about it.

You might simply remind her that at this point, talking about it isn't going to do any more harm. All talking about it now will do is to begin to re-build that trust as you see that she can be honest with you NOW at least. If she can't be honest with you NOW, then what does she expect from you?

Had our MC session last night. Like I said, we had something nice for our MC to help us chew on and it went well I think. He did a good job of helping us each understand where the other was coming from and helped mitigate the bad feelings involved (my sense that she was being untruthful still and her feeling of being spyed on).Overall, he seemed pleased that we were working through these things.

We also talked about some of the things that led us to where we were and what our needs were. The MC didn't give us specific instructions, but did validate those feelings and I think helped my W understand where I might be coming from -was a rehash of some of the things we had discussed earlier in the day. We both expressed the sense of pressure we feel to fall in love again and he said to take it easy -it was going to happen. I don't know that he has a crystal ball, but it was nice to hear him cheerleading us. He said to give it time.

On the way home, I again tried to talk W into coming out here, to read my threads, to talk to Cards, but she said (and I understand) that this is my support network and she has her own and would prefer that we be able to be as honest as possible and that if she was in on my stuff here that I wouldn' be able to get the support I needed b/c I would hold back if I knew she was reading my posts. She may be right.

What did come out of it was that she told me how much her one friend has been of help. How her friend has talked her down from calling or IMing OM a few times. I asked her if that was hard and she said yes, she still has a powerful urge to contact him, but she hasn't. She told me she's gone as far as putting him on her buddy list to see if he was on, but never actually contacted him. She told me she would call her friend to get talked down or at least walk away from the computer. I don't like hearing this, but it was the first time she ever talked to me about what she's feeling and doing about the NC. I thanked her for telling me and told her that THAT was exactly what I needed from her -that without knowing, I couldn't really understand her , couldn't do anything to help her and more importantly, not knowing let my imagination run wild -usually for the worst.

It was a painful, but really honest day and I for one feel better fo it. I think my W had a really hard time with it, but my hope is that since we handled it well, that she will be more willing to be open to me about other things as we move along.

The one thing that does worry me is wondering if she is still holding on the OM as a backup if we don't make it. My fear is that we can't make it if he is still in her mind a real possibility. Her disclosure that she still has powerful urges to contact him makes me wonder if she hasn't really decided that the NC is forever. I think sometimes the idea she might have is that it's forever only if we can work it out. I turn to you guys Cards, 2B, what do you think?

I wonder if this is something to bring up with her ,or will time take care of it? I'd rather not get accusational: "You need to forget about him if we are going to have a chance" if time will do the work for me.

Hope you are all having a good weekend.

Sys - It sounds like you and your W communicated well and you both know where each other is at. I know it was tough with her not being totally honest at first with that message from the OM. But I can see myself in your W. I would tend to have the same thoughts and reactions where I would be afraid to upset or hurt my H, not that it wasn't wrong, but it's that natural reaction as a WS. We have to re-train ourselves to be honest and know that our H's want that honesty. Our natural reaction is to hide the OM. It was good that she was strong not to react to the OM's message, but I do understand how you feel about her dishonesty as my H would feel exactly as you did in that situation.

As far as your W using the OM as a backup.....well, I can't answer that for her. But...I can identify that she may be still holding onto what she felt during the EA. She is still working through her feelings it seems. I think that she is doing great with NC and even though she has those urges, she is not giving in to them. That is what is important. Even at this stage for me, I still sometimes feel those urges. It's great that she has a friend to really help her through this.

I believe the longer she sticks to NC, she will become stronger and stronger. You both are doing really great with communicating and that's important. Continue to encourage her to be honest with her feelings. I hope this helps somewhat...I only had a minute to get on here and if I have more thoughts I'll try to write more later. Glad things went well at the MC.

Sys,
I don't know how long your wife has been in NC, but I know for me at least it will be ages before I can forget about OM, if ever. I don't think a WS can make a decision to forget about OM. We can make a decision to NC them and slowly forget about them, or have them become less important to us. My H is the same way, kind of "get over it already". Just deciding on NC for me was a step, getting over it is another story. And moving on with the M, yet another.

NC is VERY hard and I think WS don't want to let BS's know how hard it is. IT's a struggle, everyday, I guess I can see why it's linked to addiction! Because it sure feels like one when you are trying to give it up!

I don't know what your time line has been, but it seems to be a process, a long process, with many ups and downs and some setbacks. We all have triggers, some we don't even realize that just pop up now and then.

I really sound a lot better than I'm actually doing. I don't know if the weekends are harder, being home much of the day, or if being at work in front of the pc all day is. I just know every day is hard. Some harder. And though the depression is not as bad as it was right after D-Day, it is there, and sometimes overwhelming. Sometimes I want to get out of my skin! Trying to keep busy this weekend, though it's 100 degrees today and don't feel like doing anything. I just come here and post if I start missing OM or want to see if he's online. So I don't mean to babble on but apparently it's something I need to be doing right now!

-win