Yes, it bothers me when people say it was all a fantasy. Of course I know on some level it was. We weren't going to meet, though I had thought about it. BUt I wasn't going to run off with him and have a relationship. And I know that I didn't know him fully and he didn't know me. BUT there was something there, some kind of love. There were very strong feelings and maybe part of it was the missing EN's as well as the excitement of someone new. But it was also the connection I made with him as a person.

So I think there's withdrawal on multiple levels and thats what makes it so hard. And on top of that we have to turn to these M's which have been unfullfilling and troubled for a while at least. In the very beginning I was overwhelmed with dealing with both H and OM at the same time. All my emotions were jumbled up together. And I really needed time to seperate the two. Now I see things much more clearly than I did in the beginning, but I still have the hurt and pain to deal with.

Let me ask you three this question...how well do you feel that you REALLY knew the OM???

I know that my wife really felt that she knew him well...but when I'd ask all kinds of simple questions, she didn't know really any of it. She still insisted for a long time (haven't brought this up in a long time, so not sure what her take would be now) that she knew him very well, knew him enough to truly be in love with him.

But I wonder how that can be the case when you have never met, have never shared ANYTHING more than online conversations and phone calls. And even those were limited to when your family wasn't around. There was so much basic stuff about OM that she didn't know...so how well do you feel that you actually knew your OM? And how do you feel about it NOW that you're coming out of the withdrawl?

Looking back, I STILL feel that I knew the OM quite well. We talked for months and we shared ALOT with each other. We shared not only our deep feelings and thoughts, but also alot of facts about each other.

Owl - I remember you telling us that your W didn't know what kind of car the OM drove. I'm assuming this is the basic type of information that you asked your W and she didn't know the answers. I DID talk to the OM about things like that...cars, vacations, family, where we grew up...etc. There was alot of sharing very similar to if I were meeting someone new in person and got to know him.

Now, I do realize I'm not going to know everything about the OM. And I do realize I do not know what his mannerisms are because I never saw him in person. And I probably really don't know what type of temper he has. Those are the things I do not know, but I felt that I had connected with him as we shared over the many months.

My H too, cannot fathom how I could fall for someone online. Unless it does happen to you, there is no way you can understand. I never thought it was possible, but I can't deny the feelings and the connection that I felt with this OM.

(I want to preface this with ..."I could be full of doodoo, but here's my take)

One of the real difficulties in recovering from an online EA for a couple IS the 'fantasy factor'. The problem is that it is sooo easy for the WS to fill in those 'holes' of knowledge with whatever they'd like to believe. And I truly think that happens.

So it's VERY hard for the BS to even compete with the 'might have beens', the perfection that is imagined but not really experienced. That's what I told my wife during the heighth of her withdrawl..."how can I compete against a perfect fantasy!?!" Reality is ALWAYS a let down from what you PICTURED something is going to be like. ESPECIALLY when you're dealing with people.

Now...on the good news from Owl...THE WIFE IS DUE HOME TOMORROW!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I believe this does happen to a degree because there are always factors we don't know of the the OP. I know that my H felt that he was compared to this guy who I painted a perfect picture of. My H still feels that I see no flaws in this OM.

I did and still do realize that reality would be different with the OP. Sure we may have still connected, but there is still the reality of every day life that we don't know about and that's true for when we married our spouses as well. There were many things we didn't know about our spouses as well until we married them.

I will share something about the 1st OM. I was absolutely positive he was this "perfect person" and just what I needed. I had only talked to him for 2 1/2 months before we met in person. The months that occurred AFTER we met, I found out more about this man and there was so much that I didn't know and DID NOT LIKE about him! He was NOT someone that I could ever want to be with even if I had met him in real life.

So, I can compare that to your W, Owl, and maybe Cards as well, when comparing the length of time of the EA before I met the 1st OM. This was about the same length as your W's EA and Card's EA. I really didn't know this 1st OM as well as I thought I had BEFORE I met him.


I am sure you are soooo ready for her to return!!

Owl-my 2 cents worth on this-----



How well did we know the OM? Well enough to know that he was offering/giving what we needed to make us feel loved. It's really that simple.

How well we REALLY knew everything about them doesn't matter at all. What I mean is, we know it makes no sense at all to fall in love with someone you've never met. But as we've all said over and over, this isn't about logic and sense. It's about powerful emotions and needs and feelings. The brain and logic have NOTHING to do with it. I won't speak for the other women, but I knew all along it wasn't logical and that it didn't make any sense - even as it was happening and I was beginning to have feelings for the OM.

So did I know what kind of toothpaste he uses or what annoying eating habits he has or what unfavorable personality traits he has that I never saw? Nope. Do those things matter when you are getting emotional needs met that haven't been met in a while? Nope, apparently not. What I DID know is how HE MADE ME FEEL and how I MADE HIM FEEL. EMOTIONAL NEEDS being met. While I know INTELLECTUALLY that you have to have the total package in order for deep, true, love, EMOTIONALLY what I received was enough to make myself feel love. Does this all sound crazy? Absolutely. Could only a person with a fragile state of mind succumb to this? Absolutely not, as I don’t consider myself a person with a fragile mental state.

I truly believe that EA's are more dangerous than PA's. Think about it, there is no physical R, so..... there has to be something even MORE important and powerful to keep the R going. Something more powerful than sex to bond people together and create a R.

As far as H competing with this "perfect fantasy"? For me, it's not as though I conjured up a mental image of this perfect-looking guy with perfect traits. Quite frankly, at some point it just didn't matter what he looked like or that I knew there had to be things about him that I wouldn't have liked. All that mattered were that the needs were being met. As long as that was happening the addiciton was there.



About the EA? Of course I regret that it happened and I now have the knowledge that it CAN happen. I knew then that it seemed illogical and I know now that it was illogical. Do I think the whole thing sounds somewhat ridiculous? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that it happened and I had those feelings, though. REAL feelings. I wonder every day how I got “pulled” into it. Today I am much wiser because of what I have learned about myself, my H, and my marriage.

Cards-

Good point with the comment about nothing mattering but having your needs met. I'd guess that's probably the bottom line in all of this. Thanks for your insights.

In my case, I'm really kind of asking rhetorical questions.

Hoping ya'll are having a good day...I'm VERY much looking forward to this weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

True for me as well! However, I yearned for something deeper beyond what I was getting online from the OM. And perhaps that was the fantasy that I painted in my mind. The fantasy of how this perfect combination of emotional needs being met would transfer to a real life with the OM.

I had thought in my head that this could happen, but also knew how illogical it was as well.

Yes, they were very REAL feelings and very comparable to "new love" feelings, but I believe much more intense. I believe I got sucked into it because those "feelings" that started to surface caught me very off guard. Once you start to have these needs met and you feel as if you are the most important person to this OP, it's hard to turn that away.

I also need to add that having experienceed the 1st OM and "knowing" that he had so many flaws that I didn't see at first and didn't like, this 2nd OM "seemed" so perfect to me. He became the "perfect OM" to me. Don't know if that makes sense to anyone? But, I had barely recovered from the first OM when my feelings surfaced for the 2nd OM. I do remember crying about the 1st OM about 2 weeks prior to admitting feelings for the 2nd OM.

I was in a very fragile state of mind at the time, and it made it extremely easy to transfer my feelings to the 2nd OM.

As far as being ridiculous. I guess I don't view it as ridiculous even though to others who haven't experienced it, it may seem so.

Me too, 2BN. After a while I did want a complete R with OM, even though I thought it wasn't to be. I have to wonder that if we had met and found out the realities of each other if it would've just died out. That certainly would've complicated things much more and done a lot more damage in the long run, but maybe the fantasy bubble would've burst and it would've been over. Since we didn't experience a complete R with OM, the question of "what if" is maybe what makes it so hard for some of us to recover and let it completely go.



You must have been in a very vulnerable state at that time, and wanting/needing to replace 1st OM with someone else to fill the needs. Like you said, I, too, was so taken off guard with what was happening. I remember fighting the feelings and telling myself that OM wasn't good for me for various reasons. Trying to talk myself out of it, I guess. The pull was just too strong and it was too late at some point.

All of this is NOT ridiculous. I meant to say that I think the perception from people having not been here would think it's ridiculous. What is amazing to me is the aftermath of all of this, and what we have been through mentally and emotionally to recover from it.

No Cards...what's amazing is how WELL you all have done in recovering from all of this!!!

I will tell you from experience of meeting the 1st OM, that the intensity of meeting him and then having to go back to our respective lives made things extremely complicated. I wanted more of what I experienced with him and it just was not possible because of the distance between us and because we were married to other people. The hurt and pain after he left (from seeing me) was almost as unbearable as the withdrawal from this 2nd EA. My fantasy bubble only burst with the 1st OM as I started to find out more about him after I met him and everything was back to being online.

Having known that, I had still wanted to meet the 2nd OM. Having known the pain involved, I was still willing to do it again and risk everything. My emotions and feelings were so extreme, that it lead me to it again.


If we think about how much emotions were involved in this whole thing, yes, it takes alot to recover. We gave so much of our inner selves to these OM and then to have it all taken away. My whole focus on life became this OM during the EA and nothing else mattered in life to me at the time. We are left trying to figure it all out.

Owl -

Thank you for your encouragement and sticking by us in this. It really helps to have your perspective.

I hope you have a great weekend with your W. You did a great job planning her homecoming!

Well, I do hope that I'm helpful for ya'll sometimes. I know that I appreciate getting your perspective on things a lot of times.

It's a hard thing to deal with, for all of us. I can tell you that the pain the BS's feel is no less than what you've gone through...different, to be sure, but just as excrutiating in its own right. But, I can also tell you that marriages DO survive this, and that things CAN and DO get better as you learn to work together in making your marriage what it should be.

Just spoke with my kids. They're putting a final hearty cleaning on the house now, and then are going to sit down and work on some posters for the wife, so that we can have them at the airport to greet her. Tonite, I'll pick up some potpurri to have on when we get home tomorrow, and I'll have the final touches done on the house. Add the flowers in when I pick her up at the airport, and hopefully I'll have her smiling the whole day tomorrow!

Owl - I appreciate your encouragement and perspective on things as well. It helps tremendously to understand things from the BS point of view.

I hope your weekend goes well with your W's return. She should feel like royalty with all that you and the kids have planned!

No major plans for us over the weekend. Just planning on trying to make Father's Day a nice day for my H! Already have gifts bought with the kids and now planning a special dinner for him.

Cards - hope you have a great weekend as well!

Owl-

I do appreciate your pain - your and Sys's posts are helpful to me and I'm so thankful to read about the feelings you have because my H doesn't always express it completely. I NEED to hear what effect my actions had. Even though he says he has no trouble with the EA anymore, I know subconsciously it does affect him.

I often feel guilt when I post about my own struggles and thoughts, especially when I think of you BS's having been sort of innocent victims in this. But, I do think it's helpful for all of us to hear what the other side is thinking and feeling. Both sides have plenty of pain and suffering to deal with.

Well, keep your chin up and remember that things CAN get better...it just requires you both to work at it, and not to give up just because of little setbacks occasionally. Pray when ya need the help and guidance, and you'll be amazed at how things can go for you!

OK folks -a lot has happened in the last few days and I wanted to share with you all before we take off on vacation.

First let me tell you that I had the best Father's Day ever my W and the girls really went out of the way to make it special.

Now that that is out of the way, let me get to the good stuff.

Friday, while eating lunch with my W, her cell rang. She picked it up, looked at the number , then hung it up. I asked her "aren't you going to pick it up?" She said no, I think it was a wrong number. Then she said -I think it was OM. Well we both got really upset. I was furious at him (didn't explode or anything, was just racing on adrenaline), my W was shaken and upset -she was mad at him for trying to call. This was a watershed moment. She told me she was angry at him that he knew not to try to talk to her, she said even if I wasn't there she wouldn't have picked up. she told me that things have been so good in the last few months that she was totally commited to us and that she had moved on from him and that he would need to do the same. she said she was most likely going to write him a letter telling him to respect here wishes and move on. She is going to cancel her EQ1 account, and said she wouldn't be going to her old guild site anymore. Basically, I think she hit a breaking point, and if she had been doing any fence sitting, came down on our side.

Later that day we were cuddling on the couch (in itself a nice thing) and she said I'm really glad your home on vacation and kissed me.

Sicne that moment, we are renewed. She says she loves me, we kiss with meaning and passion. We aren't fixed, but I would say we are in full recovery mode. I can't tell you all how happy I am.

Later that night she thanked me for holding hope for us both in the beginning because she didn't have it then. Ahhg, I'm rambling, but there is just so much to say and I;m amazed at how fast it all cascaded to this point.

As I said, there is a lot to do and so much of my focus has been on getting to this point that now I find I need to change gears a bit and figure out this next phase. Either way we both agreed that the best is ahead of us and the worst behind.

Thank you everyone fo helping me get to this point and I my wish for all of you is that you can get here too -it is wonderful (and scarry all at once).

Sys-

(sigh) I am so happy for you and your W. You have both worked hard on this and it has paid off!!! Your commitment and support to her is exactly what she needed. Great job!

Sys - What an amazing testimony you have and hope for others who are staying committed to their marriage! You and your W have come so far! It's so good to hear that you 2 are doing so well!!

Hope everyone else had a great weekend!

Owl - How did things go with your W's return?

Cards - how was your weekend?

I have a question for anyone...My H feels that whatever I say that the OM told me, that the OM probably lied. Is this how all BS's feel? I'll give you an example. I told my H that the OM told me that his old gf from high school lives in the same town as we do. My H feels it's a lie. I say why would he lie about that???? I just don't get it and I feel that I'm left to try to defend the OM, which I don't want to do. I know this is not all important in the long run of things, but it still bothers me! Any thoughts on how to handle this???

Hi 2BN-

I think our H's want to believe that OM are the scum of the earth. OM went after their wives and are the lowest of low. I believe this is a defense mechanism on our H's part. Of course they don't want to think of OM as a great, honest guy. My H has told me many times that I was taken advantage of and lied to by OM. I think it's what they need to believe in order to cope, and I do understand it. Think about if the situation were reversed - would we really want to know/believe that an OW was a wonderful person? I would feel insecure FOREVER.

But, when H makes those comments it does make me feel defensive, however. That's how I have handled it - told my H that saying those things makes me want to defend OM. For me, I also take it as an attack on me - that I misjudged character and was so weak to fall for OM lines, etc.

Sys - I don't know if you can answer this, but did your W have a particular turning point in her commitment to you? Or was it just a function of time and NC?