Owl - I have a question.

Over the weekend, I had a BAD trigger that was hard for me to overcome one night. I was feeling bad inside and my H could tell. He asked me what was up and I told him. Then, he says to me..."you are still hooked on this guy aren't you?" I didn't know how to answer because at the moment, the trigger was so great that it was truly bothering me that I was thinking "thoughts" of the OM. My H says he would prefer for me to keep these things inside of me from now on. This hasn't happened for awhile, but when it does, I have this need to "get it out" and tell my H.

Is it fair of my H to ask me to hold all of this in? I really wanted to talk about it with him so he could help me, but if I have to bottle it all up inside, it really makes it tough for me to deal with. I just don't know how to handle this in the future?

Well, I'm not your H, nor am I a real counselor, so I can't say what's 'fair' or not.

But, here's what I would tell your H if I were you...

"I want to share these things with you. NOT sharing them with you, not communicating with you, not being able to talk with you about my feelings and what was going on in my life is what lead to where we're at now. I think that it's important that we find a way to communicate these things with each other...and not with anyone else. It was my mistake to share these thoughts and feelings with someone else, and that is what lead to the EA's...I don't want either of us to find ourselves in that situation ever again.

So I think it's important that you and I find a way to be able to communicate about these things without hurting each other."

Again, just my thoughts. And if you can find a GOOD counselor, that kind of forum is a good place for the two of you to work these kinds of communications tactics out. And it sounds to me like he's got a bit of 'growing up' to do...part of the work in a marriage is learning to deal with the tough things.

Thanks Owl. It's tough for me to bring up when I have a trigger and "thoughts" about the OM. I end up trying to communicate that something is bothering me to my H by my body language so that he will come out and ask me. I really need to find a better way to communicate to him when this happens. I want him to listen to me and be there to help me through it.

I can certainly understand that it would bother my H that I was thinking of the OM though. Our night was going along fine as we were at some friend's house for the evening. Then - boom - the trigger hit me and I let it ruin my evening for myself. It was only when we returned home that I tried to communicate this to my H.

As far as MC, I don't feel that my H wants to go back. I don't see it happening. I had mentioned IC for me, but don't think he wants to be a part of MC again.

It's funny how we seem to have opposite problems. In my case, the affair is long over, and it's really not the affair that I'm still dealing with anymore...it's the after-affects that I personally have gone through. I know my wife's not in contact with OM, and that the affair is long dead and gone in her mind. Now it's more issues of self-worth, and in having my own EN's met.

Right now, I'm the only one who's 'dealing' with anything. And in my case, my wife cannot understand any of what I've gone through...because she's not been through it herself, and bluntly because she doesn't want to think about any of this due to the guilt she feels over the whole thing.

I am considering going to IC myself at this point, because the problems really aren't 'ours'...they're mine. We'll see how things pan out I guess.

Sys - Congrats on a great vacation. Good to hear at least one of these things is working out positively. ;-)

And 2B, I gotta back Owl up on his response. Either you talk about these things with H and have emotional intimacy, or you keep them inside, where they may boil over with bad results in the future. It's on you to sit him down and explain this to him. Trust me, even if he doesn't want to hear it, he will appreciate your emotional honesty...it's much better to have the conflict and work it out rather than hide it.

If you are dealing with "things", it's not fair for your W to just "not think about it" and I feel that's where I'm at as well. Yes, sometimes these issues are tough. And yes, it is tough for my H to hear that something triggered some thoughts about the OM, but our spouses need to help us through this I believe. I just can't be on my own when I'm struggling. That makes it so much worse for me!


You are right Bass - I will boil over inside if I keep it bottled up. I want to work through the issues when I have struggles and who better to work through them with but my H?!

2BN,

I could not resist responding to your post here. You said
I can believe this is true,but you are making a huge mistake here. If you wait until you are triggered to tell your H about things you are an emotional state and he has to deal with his own emotions as well. You need to talk to him about triggers BEFORE they happen and reach an understanding about how to handle them. He also needs reassurance from you concerning these triggers.




Pardon my French, but why should he have to read your body language so that he can ask you about something that is bothering you but will stab him in the heart? Does this make ANY sense? Not to me. If you want to communicate put down the tomtom's, the smoke signals, the encrypted letters and TELL the man what you need from him and why. But as I said before set the stage for these discussions LONG before you are triggered by something.



Yes you do, but while you are at it you need to find a better way to help him deal with this as well. You are using him to do the core dump of your emotions for ANOTHER man, and you expect him to help you. But 2BN you are asking a huge amount from him and you are spending love bank dollars at a huge rate. What are you doing to put deposits back into his back account? Please think about this.


Sadly, I can understand why he is bothered and I am not married to you, what you need to develop is some empathy so that you can FEEL what he feels when he has to comfort you about you losing ANOTHER man. I truely don't think you are out of the fog enough to understand what this is costing him internally. His refusal to talk is his way of trying to save his love for you and you don't seem to understand that.


So it is all about you right? Your H just had a nice evening ruined because you tried to communicate the trigger at that point. It would have been much better to have discussed this the next day after a nights sleep. Your H cannot be held responsible for the triggers you get from your A, and yet you are in fact doing just that. He is the one you expect to solve this problem. Please stop and think about this for a moment. I don't think you are intentionally punishing him, but your attitude about his response to your triggers suggests that you want him to feel the pain YOU feel from losing a man that stole something from your H. Does this make sense? If it does not, and it should not, please sit down and think about it and then set down with your H and talk about it when there are NO triggers.


From his point of view has MC helped? If he is dealing with your triggers regularly, if nice evening are being ruined by these triggers, then it would not be much of a leap to expect that he feels MC has NOT helped his marriage that much. If it has helped, YOU need to show him how and where it has. You need to show him where the win has come from going to MC.

2BN, you have had two affairs on this man. You are expecting him to solve your emotional issues and he should help, but you are expecting him to do it on a moments notice with no preparation, no plan, and no help from you. Somehow you expect him to be so strong that loving you through two affairs has not weakened him, has not caused him to question his own intellegence, has not moved his self-esteem to a level that makes him feel he has little to offer, but that he is still strong enough emotionally to handle YOUR triggers about another man that replaced him in your heart.

2BN, you really need to sit down and think about this. I am sure he will help you, but you need to help him a lot more than it seems you are. You cannot expect him to be strong enough to handle your triggers in real time without a plan on the part of both of you, and without some strong support from you. Has it occurred to you, that each of YOUR triggers is a huge trigger for him as well?

Please please think about this. If ever there was a time for POJA, and the development of a plan, NOW is the time.

God Bless,

JL

JL - you have left me much to think about. Especially about how the triggers affect my H. And there is much to think about how I have been communicating to him. It's like I'm scared to bring it up to him...so therefore, no planning on how to deal with this ahead of time and no planning on HOW to communicate my needs and struggles when this happens. I do NEED help with that!

Somebody PLEASE explain what POJA stands for???? HAVE NO CLUE?!

2BN,

POJA, stands for the Policy of Joint Agreement. It is detailed in the articles on this site and it is a negotiating tool. What you two need to negotiate is how to hand your triggers.

Let me offer you some thoughts.

1. You will and do have triggers, so there is little to discuss about these except how to handle them.

2. You seem to feel better if you discuss the triggers with your H. Fine, what do you expect of your H when he hears that you are thinking about the OM, and missing something that you and OM did? Whatever it is you two need to agree on this (a win-win) which is what the POJA is about.

3. How do you expect to help him when he has had to deal with your triggers? What does he need to hear from you? What do you need to do? Do you realize how it hurts him? Figure this out and talk with him about it.

4. How are you helping your H? Do you know what he needs from you? Do you know how to comfort him AFTER he has comforted you in dealing with the triggers?

5. Do you have a plan or an approach to avoid triggers, minimize triggers, or begin to ignore triggers? For example say you and OM had a hot and steamy meeting at a hotel that you and your H pass regularly or even have to go to for functions. One strategy that has been used here is to "take back" this hotel, but checking into it and replacing the memories of you and OM with what you and your H might do, this might require some rather "outrageous" acts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but the idea is you replace trigger memories with memories of you and your H. Talk with Your H about this.

6. Talk with Your H about what triggers you, and then develop plans over come them, perhaps even clue words to suggest that one is coming on and what he needs to do. It can be just a simple word and his response can be a simple as leaning over to tell you he loves you, or touches you in some way. These things become very very powerful cues and yet they are so simple.

7. Sometimes triggers are NOT triggers. This is often missed. Some time you might be out with your H and you might feel a little down. Now eventually this down feeling could lead you to thinking of OM, but if your H is allowed to know you are a bit down, react to that before it becomes an OM trigger. AND you just may have to learn to do the same for your H, because I can tell you for sure he has movies playing in his head about what you have done and said with your OM's.

You do this in the light of day. You do it when you are feeling safe and good. You do it with the idea of making both of your lives better, and emotionally stronger. You might also want to do this while acknowledging what it has and does take out of your H to deal with these things and that you respect and value him for doing these things.

You see 2BN, one of the things that has bothered me about this whole thread is that no one seems to appreiate that dealing with the triggers togehter is an OPPORTUNITY to build a better marriage, with deeper understanding, more empathy, better communications, and finally TRUST.

You are taking your opportunity and turning it into something that may kill your H's love for you. It is time you looked at this whole thing from the other end of the telescope and you will see your H is not further away and small but much closer than you realize.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

2B -

With all due respect to Just Learning, I thought I'd submit my experience on this subject.

I understand the difficulty you have in dealing with triggers by yourself, but if your H doesn’t want to know about it, I’m thinking it’s better not to mention it. My H and I are 3 years down the road, but even since very early on, my H also hasn’t wanted unsolicited information from me, and it was easy to see after awhile that my bringing things up about FOM or the A hurt my H badly and made everything worse for both of us.

There has to be a way you can deal with your pain on your own. If you need to talk to someone, get alone and talk to God, or find a girlfriend (friends get tired of hearing about it, too, though), or write your feelings down in a journal to tear up and throw away if your H doesn’t want to see it or know about it.

If you’re having trouble not showing your emotions, you can tell your H that you need some alone time. If he wants to know what it’s about, let him ask. He will probably suspect what’s happening, and if he feels up to talking about it, he can let you know.

I don’t think you should have secrets from each other, but if he’s not able to hear about some things, please consider you H’s feelings about this to be more important than your own. Maybe there will be a time later on that he will be more ready or willing to discuss your pain, maybe not, just don’t force him to hear things that he cannot stand to hear right now.

Just another point of view.

God bless,

Rose

As a BS myself, I can see both sides of this issue. I can agree that it's very important to meet BOTH of their needs as much as possible...and I feel that communication is KEY to everything in repairing a marriage after infidelity.

Again, this is exactly the kind of reason why I suggest finding a GOOD, pro-marriage MC to help work through stuff like this.

Rose,

With all due respect, I like what you said alot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But, then I usually do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That is the point, they must decide how to handle this in a way that helps them both.

God Bless,

JL

"Rose, With all due respect, I like what you said alot. But, then I usually do."

Thanks, JL! Recovery has been such a rough road for all of us. It's good to have your well-thought-out posts and sound voice of reason on the board. Especially if you agree with me! LOL.

God bless,

Rose

Sys-

I am so happy for you and your W. What a wonderful story of recovery and renewed love. I hope for that for every person on this site! I think we have all questioned at one time or another times when it seems counter-productive to keep posting/reading. It's an individual decision which I believe we can sense when we need to take a break. I hope you will keep up with us and let us know how you are doing from time to time.

2BN, I think Rose, Owl, and JL certainly covered all aspects of the trigger idea and sharing it with H. I'd have to agree that there is somewhat of a fine line in how far to go with expecting our H's to hear every little detail. Some compassion for their feelings has to be in place. I understand the need to get it out because it is helpful for our healing, but as was suggested, a friend, or other 3rd party may be the way to go. In your case when it happened and the need to express it was really strong, maybe just waiting it out until the feelings pass is best.

JL - I do not have a plan. I don't experience triggers as often anymore and this last one came unexpectantly (I guess they all do). I never met this OM, so all my triggers are based on conversations we had. This last trigger was really silly. The OM has a goatee and the H of the couple we are friends with had just recently grown a goatee. Everyone that night was making a big deal about it and there was a great focus of attention on it. Now, I don't understand why it left me with overwhelming thoughts of the OM, but it did. How can I prepare for that??? That was not something I could have altogether avoided.


And yes, I should have let it pass until the next day, but sometimes my feelings overwhelm me and I deal with them incorrectly. And because I get overwhelmed, I expected my H to help me get through it.

From what all you are telling me, I am NOT to expect my H to help me through it at the time? I have to let it pass and then ask for help??? By the time it passes, I will be ok, so then I won't need any help then. So maybe that is the plan I need to take, since my H doesn't want to hear any of it?

I don't have any girlfriends to talk about it with, because my H has not permitted me to share the A's with anyone. I am left to resolve the issue on my own, if I can't ask my H for help.

Quote from Rose:

If I did this, my H would definately know it is about the OM. He will ask, I will tell, and we will be where we were the other night.

Quote from cards:

I do not expect my H to hear every little detail of any thoughts for triggers. This last trigger, was just more than I have experienced in a GOOD WHILE. I wasn't prepared with how to deal with it and I did let it overtake me.

I do thank each of you for your well thought out words. There is much to think about and have a talk with my H about how we should handle it the next time this happens. Hopefully it won't happen again or at least not for a very long time!

2Bnormal,

I once struggled with the exact same thing than you and asked similar questions about it than you. Please read all about it on this thread and especially pay attention to the response I received from ForeverHers. I’m sure you will find his response helpful & insightful too. Let me know what you think.

Blessings,
Suzet

2BN-

Well, like I said in my previous post, I can see both sides of this discussion. Regardless, I do wish you both well. The good news is that they seem to be less and less common, so you should hopefully be a little less difficult to deal with, knowing that it won't happen often.

2BN-

It is sort of a dilemma, isn't it?



It sounds like this is the best approach. Every couple may have a different way of handling this. It will be up to YOU and YOUR H in how to handle. Work it out together so both are comfortable.

My H and I are not having many of these conversations any more at this point. For me there are very few things triggering me. My H does ask me if I'm OK when he senses that I am down, as he seems to be much more keen to my moods than he has ever before.

2B, I think your healing will take longer than mine due to the length and depth of your EA, and your situation is more complex than mine with the 2 EA's and PA. I didn't mean to imply that you are expecting too much of your H, only that you have to monitor and judge when it is right to talk to him about these things. AGAIN, work it out with him. Find out how HE would like you to handle it. You have worked very hard and have worked hard at handling things in the right way. Keep going, 2B, you're doing great.

Suzet - Thank you so much. I found that thread and the response from ForeverHers very helpful.


This quote above really hit me. My H said something similar to me that night when I talked about the trigger. He told me, of course I will have thoughts/triggers, but that is part of the consequence of the sin. I got myself in the sin and I am the one to have to deal with the consequences.

This all has really opened my eyes to how I was wanting my H to hear and help me, and for me to tell him when I get these overwhelming thoughts. I have a need to express my thoughts, but I don't have the right to "force" my H to hear them if he doesn't want to. I am USING my H to help me recover from triggers/thoughts, and that is not the right way to go about it.

Suzet - After you got through this point in your recovery, how then did you deal with thoughts and triggers?

quote from cards:

Yes this is true. But, the "scared person" inside of me doesn't know how to work this out with my H. I can be total opposite here...on one end I will blurt it out for my H to hear "all" (or most of it) that I was just thinking....or totally try to hide my thoughts from my H. I haven't come to the middle ground with asking my H on HOW to deal with it when I am not in any thoughts/triggers.

Good morning, 2B –

My experience has been that triggers can continue for a long time, but the good news is that the impact of them lessens considerably over time. There was something that helped me when the triggers were the worst in the first months after d-day, though.

I realized that I couldn’t control some of the triggers (seeing a car like his, for example), but I could control my reaction to them – basically whether or not I allowed myself to dwell on the memories that resulted from the triggers.

When I’d have a particularly bad trigger, I’d remind myself that it wasn’t my fault if I saw a car like his, but then I would honestly ask myself if I was continuing to think about FOM on purpose. In other words, I realized that sometimes I’d use an accidental trigger as an excuse to indulge once again in the addiction.

I found I was able to use something taught in a Yoga class (I took for exercise, not as a religion). When thoughts come, don’t fight them, but rather relax and allow them to go through your mind, and then let them go. It’s sort of like, the trigger is a bird that you can't stop from flying by, but you don't have to let it build a nest in your hair.

Just an idea that I hope is helpful. Hang in there,

Rose