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Joined: Mar 2003
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Trix Offline OP
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that you have been through this 3 times with your WH,how does he feel about this "in love" concept? Does he still feel that it's the one thing he needs to keep hurting you for and looking for to feel....loved? His A's have spanned 8 years each.

So,if he repeats his pattern,you will be due(hope to GOD not!)to go through this again in 2010.Ugh.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, we hope that it won't be repeated. After the one that ended in '98 we had some counselling, went to an Imago Weekend, he started going to church and joined the choir and we renewed our vows in 1999.

When he started being critical of me and distant in 2002 I was in denial for a while. I had stopped getting detailed cell phone bills in 2000. He started disappearing...couldn't reach him on his cell for hours and then had lame excuses. I finally got the detailed phone bills and saw a pattern of calls and found out who it was. He didn't admit anything until all the proof was in hand. This woman had called our office in May '02 and I had given her his cell number thinking it was a client even though she said it was a friend. I thought it odd but I didn't pursue it beyond asking and he just played it down as nothing and I forgot about it. The A started with the secret calls after that. They would meet for breakfast and lunches and whatever else...lots of cell phone calls.

I exposed to our pastor and we went to talk to him. He recommended a Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapist for us to see. He was helpful to both of us. He got my H to realize that he didn't really have an idea about what commitment and personal bounderies really was.

I felt like a fool to not have figured the A out sooner and that this was happening to me again. I told him that he could leave, we would divide our lives and D. I was willing to move on. I saw it as a problem with his character. With that he pretty much came out of the fog and was very remorseful, repentant and actively interested in real reconciliation and recovery.

He read SAA and HNHN and in March of '03 we went to a MB Weekend and did the majority of the followup...we still plan to do the last few chapters of HNHN together.

I believe that he really got it this time...but I also know that I can never truly trust him 100%. He is fully accountable and always reassuring without complaint.

It is embarrassing even within this forum to have this experienced 3x's. I tell myself I won't allow myself to go through it again and not D...but there is a part of me that doesn't want to tempt fate by being to sure of even that. He does know better now. He knows what he stands to lose.

The first OW, the neighbor, had a dd who was dying of luekhemia and was separated from her abusive H. My H has always been a good looking charmer and a good listener. They used to talk over the fence. I took the kids on a 6 week trip camping along the way, from FL to CA and back through NY. The A happened during that time. She was very pretty...a nice, needy, former model, Christian singer. I was gone and the opportunity was there. It ended abruptly. I called her while still on the road. She was insulted by my call. My H met us at his mom's in NY., he was remorseful and we reconciled immediately...but I held onto it for years, never really forgiving him for a long time.

The middle OW was wealthy. Her H was morbidly obese and spent much of each month up north for work. She refused to relocate again because of the kids and school, though he had asked. My H and her spent lots of hours on the cell phone together. A couple of spans of times she supplied him with his own secret cell phone he'd hide in his truck.
She was lonely and emotionally needy. This wasn't her first A. I had exposed to her H hoping that would end the A...her H believed that their A was a soulmate A and agreed to a D rather quickly. I think it was an exit A; it wasn't her first A either. She made out well in her D with their nice big house paid for, the kids, and 10 grand a month. I went as dark as I could being in business together. My H didn't live with her long before he couldn't stand the loss of the respect of his own kids while living with the OW and hers in their former marital home. Her teenage son...my son's ice-hockey friend, resented him...life with her didn't match up to the build up their fantasy had created. It was not all that rosy. He moved to a spare room at his business partner's house for a couple more months. He got several sessions of IC and then we did a couple of MC sessions. We had already done Retrouvaille during one of the false recoveries the year before.

With the last A he had been renovating an investment house and started talking to a pretty married woman across the street who didn't need to work. I found out that he was spending lots of time talking to her and I went to her house and found him there I told him I wasn't going through this again. It took a while for her to come to the door. I found him in the bathroom. He said they were just friends and only enjoyed talking to each other. He stopped all contact until she called our office asking for his phone number a yr later or so. I didn't recognize the name or voice. She was then separated from her H. My H succumbed to temptation again...he has insisted that they didn't have sex until the last month and then only rather lousy sex 2x's. I still have a problem believing that but I do believe that the A's were always about his ego and how he felt about himself with these OW and not as much the sex as the EA part. She was putting pressure on him to leave me about 6 months into it. He said that the A's were fun for him. He would become addicted to the OW and the illicit, exciting aspect of the A's. He enjoys small talk, banter that I am not good at. He has lots of regrets now and believe he made lots of mistakes.

That A was about 4 yrs after the end of the last one...unless you count when they met which was in '00 or '01. (I'd have to look at records to remember exactly) It wasn't eight years. I don't know that there were others but we did have some rough years in between the first two A's that thinking back, he could have had something going on. He denies it and says I know the whole truth. I'd have to have him take a lie detector test to really know,I guess. He is on board with radical honesty. But with all I've been through I don't believe it is beyond him to think that he could get away with not being historically honest because I really do think there is an underlying character flaw in him and that is something I am not thrilled to admit. But, none of us are perfect. I have made my share of mistakes and non marriage building behavior. I pined for years for an old boyfriend and romanticised about him for the first 10 yrs of our marriage. I had a conscious revenge EA after his first A. I felt awful about it once it was found out. I used some classic justifications. Good thing I never actually tried to contact the old boyfriend...because who knows?
I had to face a lot about my part in the pre-A's environment of our marriage.

H doesn't believe he is a serial cheater. The pastor gave us the number of a Sex and Love addiction group. He didn't feel like that really fit him. I think he was more of a 'love' addict than sex addict.

He now understands how important bounderies are and that he can't get into intimate personal conversation with other women. He is committed to our marriage and always expresses his love to me. He has learned that his definition of love was wrong and it was more like infatuation. He now believes that love is not 'a feeling'. He used to think he had to have this feeling in his solar plexis to be really be in love. I think he has finally matured but it took a really long time. He has a hard time believing some of the things he said and did during the A's.

Don't know if I answered your questions very well. I am glad we are still married and have survived this. He has regained our kid's respect and he is very happy about thst too. He understands what he almost lost. He has read some posts since I've been reading here. I think he posted once maybe a couple of years ago.

Ultimately, time will tell, because I can't really predict the future but have heard that past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior and leapards do not change their spots...I can only hope this is real and lasting and he is an exception to those sayings.

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

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It is hard to know if I was stronger for perservering to save my marriage or too weak to not be willing to completely throw in the towel and D. When going through it we want to do whatever we can to lessen the pain and feel better. We have our own addiction and withdrawal to deal with.

I believe that through all the adversity I have learned a lot more about life than I would have had I not gone through the experiences. Not something I would have chosen to go through though.

I do believe that I could survive a D now and still consider myself recovered and not a failure as I thought I'd be had I D'd before MB... if I have to..but that is easy to say from where I sit in recovery.

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Hi Trix,

I am so sorry I didn't see your post to me.I guess not having my name in the topic title helped it to pass by unaddressed.What's funny too is not only did I just recently(this morning) see your picture on the MB Photo thread but by happenstance,I came back to cc's thread and was reminded of what I posted to you.Otherwise I may never have replied and you might have thought, "What a SNOB".LOL

Well,thank you for taking the time to respond to my Q's.

Just to clarify a few things.Based on that cc post where I responded to you about your WH's 3 A's, you had listed the years that your FWH began these A's in '86,'94 and then '02,all 8 years apart.That's what I was addressing in terms of if and when this would happen again.Sorry if that was misinterpreted.

I am glad your FWH sees the error of having detailed,"intimate" conversations with the opposite sex.It appears from what you said that maybe he wasn't aware of this danger(I don't know how people cannot know this in this day and age) or that maybe he did it because of the feelings and that justified it in his mind(my previous guess which coincided with what you said).

Is there a limit to what your FWH does that would make you really consider ending the marriage? One more time is it?

And,what does your FWH consider to be serial cheating? Just curious but I don't want to make you go back down that painful road unless you think you can so do ignore that Q if you want.

Anyway,thanks again for such a detailed response.I do sincerely hope that this time your FWH is in this marriage for good.I am glad to hear,too,that you are both following MB principles.

Much luck to you both!

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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Thanks for responding. I changed the title a few times. The first one did have your name in it. Lots of times it seems to me that my posts become thread killers anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I believe I have gotten stronger than I was previously. I have always had a tendency to have a low self esteem. What I think I have gained through MB is that his A's were always more about him than me though. They were his own weakness, lack of character...morals. Falling to the dark side...living a morally relative existence. His selfish feelings of entitlement as well as opportunity. Before we married he became a born again..spirit filled believer. Then fell away and became disallusioned after a 1983. Then in '98 became a Catholic...which we still are today. He converted to Catholism then had another A. When he was tempted..he fell.

He believes that he won't allow that to happen again. My experience was similar to Mimi1254's story. I can also relate to where K72172 is now. Both sound like they have grown in strength and confidence.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is there a limit to what your FWH does that would make you really consider ending the marriage? One more time is it?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, there is a limit. I want to believe that I wouldn't allow any excuse for another A to change my mind about another one being the last. But, until that happens, it is easy to say that I would not stay married, but I want to believe that I wouldn't. I am pretty strong now. You I remember well how torn down and awful I felt with the d-days.

It is difficult to be together almost 30 yrs with all of our history and kids and imagine not growing old together. I do not want to compromise my belief in fidelity. I believe he truly values us more than he ever did. He thanks God that he regained the respect of our now adult children. He had definitely lost it from 2 of them when he moved in with OW#2. My daughter was the only one who knew the details about #3. I chose to limit exposure that time. He knows what he stood to lose and how close he came to losing it. He has no excuses anymore as far as I am concerned and I believe he is well aware of that.

I don't think it would be the end of my world to be D'd. I believe my kids would accept and encourage me to D their dad if he is unfaithful again. Of course, how old would I be...that is something I don't like the idea of...if the 'pattern' holds, say I am mid-50's or nearing 60...oh well..I guess that shouldn't matter. I don't like to dwell on it lest I create a self-fulfilling prophesy...like a jinx...a bit superstitious of me...not good.

As far as what he considers to be a serial cheater. I just called to ask him. He would consider a serial cheater to be over the top, always out on the prowl...akin to serial murderer or rapist who are compelled to repeat over and over..they have a whole list. I guess he tends to think of his as more isolated A's. He wasn't into ONS's. He wasn't like Stillwed's H who had something like 16 A's...many of which were ONS's.

We are both following the rules of protection pretty well. We are consciously aware of our commitment to keep having a better marriage than before...and it is. I will say that there are times when I would just love to have him take a lie detector test just to confirm that I do in fact have all the historically correct info. He would do it...I guess I haven't felt compelled enough to spend the money on it.


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