Foreverhers:

Get off your friggin' high horse (and turn off your bold key). If you are suggesting that I condone or approve of what he did, then you are an idiot.

As to the Bible verse, the point of the verse is for people to show charity to the guy rather than to use the guy for a punching bag.

We should try to help the guy. ("Help" in the sense of getting him out of the A.)

Standing on a corner and shouting "sinner" rarely improves anything but the selective deafness of the target.

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Jimmy Mac ]</small>

he told her that if she leaves him to be with me, he'll kill me.

How unreasonable of him.

Yep, what nerve. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SSOM:
<strong> Well, I deleted my post because I realize that I'm at the wrong place. Maybe I should be talking to the police as I fear my life is in danger.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In some countries (probably some places here too), if you were to go to the police and tell them you fear for your life because you were bonking some's wife, they would laugh at you and tell you to stop/don't get caught.

And in some countries, if you did get caught, they would question the husband for about 5 minutes and then let him go.

<small>[ March 14, 2005, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

"Maybe I should be talking to the police as I fear my life is in danger."

IMHO you should be talking to God because your soul is in danger.

ssom,
You have disappeared so you may or may not see this, but I thought I'd post it.

You could very well be in danger. Most BS don't take to kindly to OM having sex with their wives.

Normally I am a fairly calm person who thinks before he acts. Do I get angry sure, but usually it'd be in control/stuffed away.

When I found out that my wife had a "friend", I experienced something completely new for me. It was complete and total rage. There was a period of time that I was somewhat out of control. Had the OM interferred with my family or gotten in my face about his love for my wife, I really don't know what might have happened. Luckickly he was a complete coward and instead of "sweeping my wife of her feet" he went and hid behind his wife.

It is difficult for a WS or OP to understand this rage. Combine depression with complete and utter shame and you have an exposive mix. Throw in the alcohol and you might as well be juggling nitroglycerine.

If I were you (and I say this for your protection) I would lay very low. If I were you, I'd end the affair. Tell his wife that you have no intention of breaking up this family.

If the H is abusive there are other ways of dealing with it. As a matter of fact if I had a female friend who confided in me that she was in an abusive relationship, I think the very last thought on my mind would be to hook up with her. Now that is crazy.

Mac

Hay CW, maybe this guy should get out of town and take a cruise! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I still like the castration idea. Murder a member and save a life!
Coach

Now Now!
We are all adults here, an intelligence above all other species on this planet so were told! So why is it then when it comes to our spouses whether they are male betrayed or female betrayed that we would kill for our spouse who did this?
Ever think about it?
I have, and I am glad I did not catch them two together because me and that guy named BABA in prison where I would end up, would not get along to well!

SM

Does this guy sound like the OM in anyone else's sitch out there? Does for me (other than the part about me being homicidal and a drunk) - weird.

SSOM,

Move on with your life. There are no genuine soulmates.

The reality is that it is possible to fall in love with many people. Your perfect woman has. A lot of people do...as evidenced by this country's divorce rate, infidelity rate and most other stats.

There are several mates out there for you. Leave this one alone. If not for her sake or her kids' sake (it is clear you do not care about the BS), then do it for yourself.

This may sound strange...but have you ever considered that YOU deserve better than what this WW is giving you?

You asked her to leave the OM - she hasn't. You have your answer on what to do.

MOVE ON!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The response to this guy has been appalling. Nothing has been said here that helps him, the WS or the BS.

Perhaps a Bible story might help--

John 8-11:

At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

[ March 14, 2005, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Jimmy Mac ]

--------------------
FWS
Married: 1976 AS: 1991
D-Day: 1992 AE: 1993
Still married.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Foreverhers:

Get off your friggin' high horse (and turn off your bold key). If you are suggesting that I condone or approve of what he did, then you are an idiot.

As to the Bible verse, the point of the verse is for people to show charity to the guy rather than to use the guy for a punching bag.

We should try to help the guy. ("Help" in the sense of getting him out of the A.)

Standing on a corner and shouting "sinner" rarely improves anything but the selective deafness of the target. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jimmy Mac - Have it your way son. I'm an idiot who stands on God's word. You, on the other hand, are a sane and rational individual who stands and acts on his emotions. High Horse? Perhaps, as long as it is God's horse that I am astride I have no fear of what others may think.

You, on the other hand, have no problem telling everyone else what you think of them and what you think is "help," The response to this guy has been appalling. Nothing has been said here that helps him, the WS or the BS.

Yes, it's appalling to tell someone that ADULTERY is wrong....PERIOD. Yes, it's appalling to tell someone to STOP SINNING immediately, just as Jesus did in the passage you sought to use as justification for your diatribe against the responsdents and in "support of" the OM (SSOM) seeking help with how to end his Adulteress' marriage.

Yes, Jimmy Mac, what we said has NO value in helping the WS or the BS....as in "OM, butt out of their lives and let them work on their marriage or divorce BEFORE YOU stick it to a married woman simply because you WANT her!"

Jimmy Mac, you see NO value to the WS or BS in telling the OM to stop and go No Contact immediately so that the MARRIED couple can try to work on their marriage instead of seeking to get perceived or real needs met OUTSIDE of a marriage.

In short, you seem to see NO VALUE in Marriage Builders tenets, much less Scriptural tenets to "Go immediately and LEAVE your life of sin."

No, you'd rather NOT call "sin" a "sin" because it "might offend" someone.

Tell me, Jimmy Mac, if he were screwing YOUR wife in this scenario, would you be so seeming magnanimous to him and opposed to those who are saying "Do the right thing, and do it NOW!"?

No, here comes the "soulmate" argument. Here comes the argument that God is the author of sin because "God must have brought them together because they are so perfect together and the BS is on total monumental jerk who doesn't 'deserve' his 'perfect and morally superior' wife."

Jimmy Mac, I'm sorry if this offends you, but I am really tired of people making excuses for others incredibly poor choices. If you follow Christ, then be "bold enough" to stand up for what Christ died for, for you, and be man enough to call a "sin a sin" even if the whole world were to hate you in response.

If this SSOM wants to "get approval" from like minded Other Men and Other Women, he can go to one of the other sites (no, I won't even mention them to him) to get plenty of similar minded warped support for the destruction of marriages.

But here, we BUILD Marriages whereever and whenever possible. We use divorce as the LAST option, not the first.

The Betrayed Spouse "threatened to kill him." Oh my! If he came into my house threatening to kill me, my wife, or my children, I would have no problem with blowing him away either. That is essentially what he is doing to their "one flesh" marriage. That sort of statement from a Betrayed Spouse is NORMAL. A Wayward Spouse, much less a Other Man, cannot understand the depth of the devastatation that THEIR betrayal on him has wrought. You, as a former WS yourself, probably don't understand either, beyond possibly the intellectual level gained from your participation here on MB. But ALL BS's know it down to their core. WE understand the agony of the betrayal of adultery that Christ felt as he sweat drops of blood.

So, if you want to lecture us on being "idiots" and "appalling" and having "nothing helpful to the BS or WS" to say, then have at it under your right to free speech.

As for me, I'd suggest we put our two positions to a poll and let the folks outside of our sparring match decide the issue.

Yes, Jimmy Mac, even I get angry about support for sin.

And yes, Jimmy Mac, this post is a sin on my part perhaps, because I'm not sure if this is "gentle correction" or too heavy-handed. Call it "righteous anger" on my part and I hope I haven't stepped over the line in response. I guess I'll let God decide and let the other members sort it out and include that in their decision poll.

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

How is your throwing arm feeling Brother SIN-FREE ForeverHers?

From Jake (a sinner) whether it is my sins of commission or my sins of omission (things I should do that I don't do) I still DAILY sin but praise the Lord, I am saved by GRACE!
(Are you saying one sin (adultery) is worse in God's sight that another sin?)

Your TIRADE against JimmyMac has lost much of my respect for you!

OUTSTANDING POST, ForeverHers! Thank you so much for your eloquence.

Zipp, I think you misunderstand the scripture. If we all had to be "sin-free" to judge right from wrong, then we would be in pretty bad shape as a society. Our prisons are full of such folks. We don't have to be "sin-free" to call a sin a sin.

Zippidy doo dah - probably just as much respect as you lost for Jesus Christ when he angrily "cleared the temple" of those disguising their sinful behavior as "good for others." It's called "righteous anger."

So let's see, calling someone an "idiot" garners your support but responding to that garners your lack of respect.

I'll live with it.

I'm not perfect, never claimed to be. I am sorry if what I had to say directly to Jimmy Mac offended you. As I said in my post, probably a poor sinful choice on my part to respond, or to respond as "forcefully" as I did. God can judge and I will seek His forgiveness if I overstepped the bounds.

How quickly we jump to "object" to a simple declarative of "Obey God."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From Jake (a sinner) whether it is my sins of commission or my sins of omission (things I should do that I don't do) I still DAILY sin but praise the Lord, I am saved by GRACE!
(Are you saying one sin (adultery) is worse in God's sight that another sin?)

Your TIRADE against JimmyMac has lost much of my respect for you! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, Zippidy doo dah, I am NOT saying one sin is worse in God's sight than another sin. All sin is anathema to God. But some sins ARE worse than other in God's sight. Adultery is a sin against one's own body and is specifically warned against. Many specific types of sins are listed as "those who practice them and are unrepentant will NOT be in heaven." ONE sin is listed as "unforgiveable." So, yes, God does "rank" some sins, if you will. That's not the same thing as implying that ANY sin is "okay" with God. NO sin is Okay with God, beginning with the covetousness and pride and disobedience that were embodied in the choice to eat the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. It is WHY Christ's sacrifice was needed and WHY God's grace is so important, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Lastly, though it's no excuse in and of itself, after almost three years of participating and posting on the system and seeing and hearing the same things over and over and over again, I AM getting tired of "repeating myself." It's one of the reasons why I am working at weaning myself off the system and leaving the commenting and helping to others.

So tell me, finally, how much respect did you lose for Paul when he forcefully "took on" Peter's misapplication of Jesus's commands and who the Good News was intended for and how those "new Christians" should "behave" according to Jewish law and tradition?

It ultimately took Jesus bringing a dream to Peter to teach him further the truth about how the Gospel was to be applied to everyone. Was Peter right and Paul and Jesus wrong? Or is the "Process of Sanctification" a lifelong learning process?

Regardless, "spats" among believers are distasteful. You have my apology for having offended you and I would seek your forgiveness as you HAVE perceived it as an offense against you.

God bless.

After re-reading the posts, I have to agree that there was some good advice given to the guy early-on. At some point, the posts became cathartic and destructive.

The BSs on this board are in a lot of pain, and they tend to transfer their anger to any WS or OP that wanders in. The unfortunate result is that many WSs or OPs are scared off. It seems that what we want to do is help these people. The best for them is for them to abandon the A.

There are several simple, logical reasons for OPs and WSs to end the A. If the OP or WS listens, then I'm confident that OP or WS can be persuaded to change.

However, suggesting castration, dismemberment, and eternal damnation will not engage a WS or OP in rational discussions. Listening and understanding (which is not the same as agreeing) is the best approach to changing a person.

As to Foreverhers, all I can suggest is for him to get out in the community (as I have) and work with sinners. You'll learn more quickly what works and what doesn't.

Jimmy Mac - your judgment is appreciated.

Have no fear, your wish will be granted.

One idiot signing off.

Yep....your lead should be followed.

zippiditydoodah...

did you read the part in jimmymacs post where he calls someone an idiot...??

did you get that part...

is that nice??
I don't think so...

and words like immature...towards ssom...fit...and are pretty much not so judgements as facts...

it is immature as adults to engage in affairs and believe that the chaos and pain is justifiable because it feels good.......
does saying that make me more or less of sinner...don't think so...don't even see the correlation....

but I believe that opinion of mine is true...and if that's called judging....then I stand convicted....
and proud that I won't whitewash the reality of some of these horrific actions....

I hope SSOM deals with this issue logically and safely..
that he stops contact if it in anyway puts him or others in danger...

but he was pretty clear how goooooood it feels...
so it may just as important that he buys a bullet proof vest...and learns how to shoot first..

he wasn't here to stop the affair...
he want's help in villianizing the husband so he will quit giving him so much flack for having an affair with his wife...

he's welcome any time to post more and change that tune he came here singing..and i pray he does....

He doesn't hide from 'mean judging' posts...he hides from the TRUTH of his actions and the reality of potential consequences....

as if the posters response to babble is worse than the actions and reality of an affair...

the big missing piece of information from ssom posts...is how many children are the real potential casualities....

ARK

You know, the sparring match this guy started is probably not helping anyone. I mentioned before that this guy got on here for justification, not help. With that being said, let's not let him drag us and what we are all trying to do here...down, okay?

I did want to offer a (hopefully helpful) correction to those that that have misinterpreted some of these passages that have been mentioned.

1. The "He who is without sin cast..." passage is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible. First of all, here is what that passage is NOT saying. It is not saying that we should not render judgment unless we are sinless. How do I know this? Because in the succeeding passages, and in other parts of Scripture, Christians are told to judge and told how to judge. So, the Lord cant be saying dont judge in one part, and then telling us HOW TO judge in another.

If you read that passage, it is talking about hypocritical judgment. If I was guilty of adultery, I have NO RIGHT judging someone else in adultery. But, if I am not guilty of THAT SIN, then of course, I have the right (and the duty as a Christian) to judge that sin and to help turn that person away from it. What did Jesus, in that passage, write in the sand that made everyone there go home. Well, He wrote the names "Betty," "Suzy," etc. What He was writing was the names of the women that those men there had committed adultery with. How do I know that is what He wrote? Because those men were ready to stone this adulteress. She had been caught in adultery. And if you are caught, if it can be proven, then capital punishment was ordered. So, what Jesus did was show them that He knew what they had been up to. That He could prove they also were guilty of adultery. Thus, since He knew and could prove it...after they stoned this woman, they would have had to step in and be stoned themselves. And so, as it is written, they all left. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now, a question arises here? The woman was caught in adultery...caught in the act? So, since Jesus had not committed that sin, why did He let her go, why did He find no fault in her? Remember, to excuse sin or to sweep it under the rug is sinning. So, of course, Jesus was not capable of that. So, why did He find no fault in her? It is because of what the law said. The law stated that any person found in adultery was to be put to death. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The passage says that the woman was CAUGHT in adultery. So, my question (and Jesus' question at the time) is...where is the man she was caught with? Why was he not there? Because her accusers were gone, and because there was no man there to be stoned also...Jesus thus found no fault. No witnesses...and no justice if she were to be stoned without the guy being stoned. If God were not just, He would be unholy.

2. In talking about the passage about Christians judging, most people get this one completely wrong. They usually read: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. And so, many would say "see, we shouldn't judge because we are not sinless. Oh really?? Hmmmmmm?!?!? The unfortunate thing is that too many Christians selectively read the Bible, instead of taking it in its entirety. So, let's check further into this. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't you know that someday we Christians are going to judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can't you decide these little things among yourselves? 3 Don't you realize that we Christians will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disagreements here on earth. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What all of this means is that God expects us to judge not hypocritically, but in the ways that He has outlined. And other passages in Matthew and in Hebrews talk of the way that is done.

So, please do not hold onto the falshood that Christians should not judge. Christians, when following the direction of the Holy Spirit and using Scripture as their guide, are the BEST judges.

3. Last thing here. On the idea that this guy is scared that the BS is going to hurt/kill him. Well, he should be scared. Even Scripture warns against this... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">24 These commands and this teaching will keep you from the immoral woman, from the smooth tongue of an adulterous woman. 25 Don't lust for her beauty. Don't let her coyness seduce you. 26 For a prostitute will bring you to poverty, and sleeping with another man's wife may cost you your very life. 27 Can a man scoop fire into his lap and not be burned? 28 Can he walk on hot coals and not blister his feet? 29 So it is with the man who sleeps with another man's wife. He who embraces her will not go unpunished.
30 Excuses might be found for a thief who steals because he is starving. 31 But if he is caught, he will be fined seven times as much as he stole, even if it means selling everything in his house to pay it back.
32 But the man who commits adultery is an utter fool, for he destroys his own soul. 33 Wounds and constant disgrace are his lot. His shame will never be erased. 34 For the woman's husband will be furious in his jealousy, and he will have no mercy in his day of vengeance. 35 There is no compensation or bribe that will satisfy him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. Enough said. I often wonder what the OM with my wife was thinking. Here was a soldier off at war, that would come back and find out what was going on. Probably not the smartest thing he ever did. And if it were not for the restraining of my soul by my Lord...well, let's just say this guy wasnt very smart.

So, let's not give this guy another thought, unless he returns for real help. And real help is first getting him to recognize that he is absolutely wrong, that there is nothing right about his thinking or his actions. Without that, then he might as well go to GloryB and hang out with the others who justify their adultery.

In the military, at the points where we brought our wounded, the medics had to triage them. They had limited supplies and limited hands. So, they would decide who was worth working on, who they could possibly help save, and then concentrated on them. Same here. If this guy is serious about getting help, then we will help. If he isnt, then he is a lost cause, and we are better off expending our resources on those that can be saved and want to be saved from the mess they are in.

In His arms.

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

When I spoke the the OW following dday, she asked me why I would want my FWH to stay with me. First, I set her straight, he stayed with me because he wanted to. I made it clear that I had never asked him to stay, and then I asked her why she would want to try and build a life and a future for herself and her children with my H.

I asked her what made her think that if he was unfaithful to me, why did she think that he wouldn't someday be unfaithful to her.

She couldn't answer.

Sometimes when the going gets tough, the less than tough cheat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Mortarman what a magnificent post.

FH, don;t give up MB. We need you.

Foreverhers,

I haven't been posting much lately. Just withdrawing from OMM trying to get my stuff together.

Your post made me cry. I was moved beyond words. It made me think about things I forgot or ignored.

I want to thank you.

NGU