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I have not read any responses here yet -- just LM's starting post -- and I can tell you that I agree with LM completely on this. I have never been able to understand how, in good conscience, anyone could advise a BS to go right on having sex with a WS whom they *know* is having sex with a third party.
As well as being a novelist, I also work as a medical transcriptionist for a pain management clinic. You would be amazed at the number of people being treated for chronic, debilitating pain due to herpes infections. And you thought all you had to worry about was AIDS?
Even if -- *if* -- you did not have to worry about being exposed to AIDS, syphillis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes and a host of other things, what about the emotional component of all this?
As a female, I cannot think of anything more humiliating than being part of a cheating husband's harem because "that is one of his emotional needs and I'm in Plan A." He has cheated and lied and then been *rewarded* for it by getting EXACTLY what he wanted in the first place -- two women to have sex with!
Where on earth is the incentive for him to stop???
I do NOT understand any wife who could do this.
Mulan
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I thought sex was supposed to be a celebration of a deep commitment and love between two people. The most sacred of all sacred acts.
I'm glad Ba pointed out that Plan A is not supposed to be about meeting E/N's and that others beside Noodle and me agree on this point because it was really giving me pause to the validity of Plan A.
However, if like mimi one feels that this is what is needed to recover their marriage and they are okay with it, I would be supportive as it is a personal choice in my opinion.
<small>[ March 15, 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman: <strong> MOM: YOu are the $hit, just thought I would say that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> LM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does this mean I am full of and look like SH*T <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> OMG! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
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MomTo3Boys wrote:
***I am not a BS that has continued to have SF with the WS, even to this day...sorry just not my cup of tea!***
Sorry, Mom, I thought I heard on the Dr. Phil show that you *did* continue to have SF with your wayward husband even after you knew about the affair -- did I misunderstand?
Mulan
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mulan: <strong> MomTo3Boys wrote: ***I am not a BS that has continued to have SF with the WS, even to this day...sorry just not my cup of tea!*** Sorry, Mom, I thought I heard on the Dr. Phil show that you *did* continue to have SF with your wayward husband even after you knew about the affair -- did I misunderstand? Mulan </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You probably heard what THEY wanted you to hear! Fact being, I had SF when I thought the A was over! All the while the alien was still seeing her....call me immature, moronic, whatever, I had no idea they were still together! I believe the show you are talking about is when he looked at me and said "he had sex with her TWO weeks ago"...I said "yes, I know"...BUT I did not have sex with my H during THAT time! I haven't been with my WH since September, maybe even longer! Also he said something like he would go be with her then come home and be with you or sleep in the same bed as you! Sleeping in the same bed as me and having sex is totally different! I DID NOT have Sex with him while i KNEW he was actively involved in the A.....I DID have SF with him when I THOUGHT he had ended it! At this point in my life, I refuse to be with him at all! He has betrayed me over and over again..time and time again...when I THOUGHT and BElEIVED he had ended with her, I let my guard down... To me sex is very special, and for someone to take it for granted as my WH does, appalls me! I feel used and I am disgusted by him right now! I cant even begin to imagine myself with him! Hope that clarifies it for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <small>[ March 15, 2005, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Momto3Boys ]</small>
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I'm so happily recovered in my M that I think that SF was a beautiful part of my Recovery process with my H. I can't explain it well. However, I've been trying to say that it did show my continued deep commitment to him to make that sacrifice during MY PLAN. It was important to me.
If you had been there and knew my situation when I was going through this on the FORUM, you would know that I did get tested and did use precautions and I would recommend this for others.
I'm just encouraging folks not to be judgmental just because it wouldn't work for you.
Like I said, from a professional point of view, I had the advantage of knowing exactly what I was doing.
Right after D-Day, I felt like a lot of you, I moved out of my bedroom. I was encouraged by folks on the Forum, against my natural inclinations, to move back in. Surprisingly,My H began to initiate SF with me and to respond lovingly to me. I think he saw this as a form of forgiveness on my part. That I could eventually forgive him, which I have.
Don't make assumptions. My H did not have a harem. He has not had a host of OW. He fell "in love" with the OW. This is hard for me to explain. Like I said before, it was something that I had to do and I'm glad I did.
SF was a bridge that led him back home. It has always been a sacred time between us that the OW could not capture or measure up to.
D
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Mimi,
Tell me what precautions have a 100% success rate against all STDs.
Let's not confuse the issues.
SF with WS IS risky behavior. Whether it contributes to recovery is totally irrelevent. It is unsafe.
Noodle
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Noodle: I don't choose to talk about STDs. That's not what I'm here for. You sound argumentative. I don't do that here.
I choose to talk about my marital recovery. That's all I choose to talk about here. I can't understand how talk about this could be irrelevant on this forum.
I don't have a copy of SAA here available for reference. However, I do have the notes from my sessions with Steve Harley. I know every situation is different. However, he told me directly and clearly that my job during MY PLAN was to meet the my WH's ENs that I had not been meeting prior to his A. I needed to make it clear to him that I was able and willing to meet those needs. He pointed out the needs specifically which he assessed in his telepone session with my WH!!!
<small>[ March 15, 2005, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>
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Actually Mimi,
That's not ok with me if you are going to simultaneously encourage and advocate SF with WS as part of plan A while dismissing the very real, very inhibitive health risks that such a decision entails.
You are choosing to talk about it when you advocate it. I'm glad for you that you're recovery is going well, and that your decision to engage in risky behavior with your WS did not result in life long illness.
Make no mistake though..you strongly advocate it as a good idea for anyone while "choosing" to disregard and not discuss the faulty logic to such decision making tools as "I just *knew* it would be fine".
Unless you just *know* that it will be fine for them as well, encouraging them to engage in SF is very irresponsible and, no, that is not OK with me.
I'm not trying to start a war with you Mimi, but this issue is very grave, and I can not sit by and watch silently while you talk about the freedom of jumping off a building while ignoring the likelyhood of impact when hitting the ground.
You have been very outspoken about your approval and good results. I'm asking you to defend a position that I consider very dangerous and harmfull. Nothing more.
Noodle
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I'm just living my life. I am what I am. I do not choose to DEFEND my position. I have shared my experiences in the best way that I can.
This is a support group where we all are giving our opinions, really.
We are all here because of traumas and tragedy. It is sad for all of us that we are even here.
I'm sorry you do not agree with me or get what I am saying.
I just know that SF with my FWH was what I had to do and I am glad that I did it. That is the honest truth!!!
I acknowledge that my behavior was risky; It tooke the best precautions that I could. It was risky for me to smoke cigarettes for 20 yrs as well. (I stopped 12 years ago!) I did a lot worse things throughout this A drama than SF. If you only knew..... It's a wonder I am not psychotic! I've never had SF with anyone else except my H!
I don't strongly advocate what I did. I understand someone doing it. It may be a choice that one has to make.
Had you thought that at one point that I didn't mind dying? I felt like that many days throughout this.
I do not choose to go into details about STDs, precautions, etc., mainly because, to be honest with you, my son could possibly reading my posts on this site or other people who might guess who I am.
Noodle, I am not sure why you are so up in arms with me about this.
I do think that you are making assumptions, though, that adults do not know how to take care of themselves.
<small>[ March 15, 2005, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>
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All I can say is that if I had not insisted my WW get tested I would have been infected.
Don't just assume your S "COULDN'T" have been with some dirty, nasty deseased scum... mine was.
MomTo3Boys -
When you're the "$hit" - that's kind of like saying "YEAH! You Go Girl!"
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by K: <strong> Lemonman, You quoted some stuff regarding Plan A---but I'm not sure where it's from (the book SAA???). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K: I just cut and pasted that article from THIS web site. You can go find it RIGHT NOW and HERE under Q&A forum/infidelity (one of the WS as Women questions). I don't mean to ruffle any feathers here about the principles.......I AM NOT QUESTIONING the principles. My intention was just to make STRONG light of a point that I think was very important. It seems that ****most**** of you understand this point. The clear fact that I wanted to make, was that my stance and strong tone in my post was not a judgement of any kind. This topic in good conscious is not debateable. I think while many here may hate my opinions and stances on many topics here, there is no credible way to dispute what I am saying (and it turns out most of you) regarding SF in an affair. I think the topic is out there and the point was made. I am very happy with this, as if even one STD is prevented, we did the job. LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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Deleted--double post..sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
<small>[ March 15, 2005, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>
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LM:
Am I among MOST of the people that got the point that you were making?
Even though I spent a lot time trying to discuss this topic today, you totally disregarded me.
I thought you wanted others' perspectives. Really your underlying motive was to make a point?
I do think your point is debatable. For you to declare that it not debatable does not make it so.
As far as I am concerned SF during PLAN A is a high risk behavior. However, there is no place where I have seen it written that it is not acceptable or forbidden or discouraged according to MB PRINCIPLES!
<small>[ March 15, 2005, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cruz: <strong> MomTo3Boys - When you're the "$hit" - that's kind of like saying "YEAH! You Go Girl!" </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, cruz...thanks! I was actually just giving LM a hard time! thanks for the clarification though! I am glad that you dont think I look like [censored] <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
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I continued to have sex with Mr Pep during the entire 18 months his affair lasted! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .... but I just didn't know it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> D-day is the same day as NC-day ... and STD screening was one of my boundaries. ewwwwwwwwww the swapping of microbes without my permission .... made me sooooo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .... but I'm over it now ... Pep
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