Hi Mimi,

I love your thread and will post to you about it when I have finished. If you want I can send you the reference, either here or elsewhere (e mail) just in case you want to edit anything. I have the real one anyway, hehehe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

our stories are more similar than you can imagine in spite of the cultural and geographical differences, but my hope was fully restored by reading the first half of the thread!!!!!

I really think you could help so many here...

<small>[ March 23, 2005, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: cc46 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> have the real one anyway, hehehe </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is the "real one" that you have? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's called My gift to you please listen and dates from may 2003 until probably september (haven't got there yet).

OK, CC. Now I remember. I couldn't recall the name of the thread. I will share with Christine.

do you want me to post the link to you?

CC46,

Mimi seems to be busy a lot, but I found this thread with her name in it. I love Mimi....she's so good to me and for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Please post the thread and I will read it!!

Thanks

-Christine

Christine, I know Mimi wanted you to read it but I wanted her approval before putting the link to the thread on the forum in case she wanted to edit anything, or whatever. I know this is a public forum and any one of us can read it but believe me it was not at all easy to find. Took me several hours of looking at a few hundred pages of GQ II to find it.

I don't feel comfortable about doing this when I have asked Mimi if whe wanted the link and she hasn't answered yet. let's wait a while and see what she says.

It will take you a long while to read, but it is truly enlightening.

Lets hope Mimi answers soon.

CC:

It's fine for you to post it unless you think there's any thing that I wouldn't want posted now?

I don't think I will be able to read it.

I will answer questions that you or others may have. I'm sure it may be too painful for me to read right now.

I want to be as helpful as I can to all of you.

This is my vengeance towards all the OW of the world! I'm continuing to work through my anger with her as you can tell!!

Mimi, so far I haven't found anything that I think that you should edit so here is the link for you, for Christine and people like Lunamare should read it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=37;t=023809

It has been extremely helpful to me but I understand when you say you don't want to read it. I used to write a diary when I was young and when I moved out I burned them all. Afterwards I wrote 5 or 6 times in 18 years in a diary I was given just after getting married and when I tried to read those notes, it was horrible.

But you have no idea how helpfulit is to read the day by day feelings and emotions you were going thru and all the wonderful advice and help you were given. I really have all the answers to my doubts and questions in those posts, but I haven't finished yet.

more to follow tonight or maybe tomorrow

christine, have you found it?

Enjoy

Mimi,

The things that really helped me from your story are the following (no special order)

1. Secrecy – WH keeps the A secret now! Some co workers have told me that they don’t think the A is ongoing because now they arrive separately to work! When I am sure that they are NOW actually living together.I was told she moved in in february. Proof of that is that he hasn’t invited his DDs to his place although he has driven right by and pointed it out to them. Originally he told them that it was a 2 bedroom place so that they could go sleepover but he has never taken them there and even left them alone in the house a couple of times I was away, which is very strange behaviour for him. He never wanted to leave them alone before and OW actually house sat for us! His mother complains he never even gave her the address.
But your WH did the same. So the secrecy may be due to guilt. How long will OW stand this? I’ve planted that seed into some co workers head. Also I’ve been told that OW’s mother now wants to keep secret the fact that OW is not living at home anymore! Weird! If I were having an A (and it should have been me,sigh) I would not be ashamed at this point when everyone knows!


2. WH becomes nice during plan A. Before d day he had been increasingly detached and then angry at me and finally he acted as though he hated me! After d day he was very nice and considerate, wanted to buy me a new car (didn’t unfortunately) did buy me a freezer which I didn’t want. He would always hug me before going to sleep. I guess he felt relieved but he never talked about R or A, actually refused to. That is a difference with your WH which makes me think that my plan B will be much longer.

3. I was also afraid he might get angry with me for changing things etc. In fact I think he was furious with plan B and that made him close our joint account and he now has control of all the money. Unfortunately I don’t make enough to live but this new job will let me make more. In spite of all this he has continued to pay all the expenses and has even sent me some cash! He is very generous and has barely complained. I noticed that there weren’t any expenses of his on the ccs, this is probably due to the fact that he doesn’t want me to know where he spends money with OW eating out etc and probably has been going on for a long time. Last week he sent me an e mail saying he had changed the address where the cc statements are sent so that I don’t have to send them to him anymore. The reason is probably so that I can’t see what he’s spending. Brilliant!


4. OW is 32 and has been his secretary/assistant for about 6 or 7 years. Her M did not marry as far as I know and has these 2 illegitimate girls. OW has been known to sleep with MM before, I knew that. She is the “predator” kind looking to get some wealthy guy and has actually stated that “she has plans and no one is going to get in her way”. There is a lot of promiscuity in that family. Her godchild and another sibling live with OW and family during the week and see their parents on the weekend. OW pays for an upscale private school for her godchild but not the sibling!!!!!! Now I guess the mother is taking care of them.

I’m a good cook, OW has no idea. Apparently she is taking English classes now! I am trilingual, I speak English Spanish and French. I’m a professional, an MD and very respected in my specialty. OW is nothing….. Apparently she is starting a university career NOW, although she pretended to study before.

Oh and OW’s mother is into wicthcraft, voodoo that kind of stuff!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

5. WH has left most of his clothes and stuff at home. About 1 month after leaving he came and took his pants but left his shoes and ties and all his winter clothes, his perfumes etc.. I put it all in one wardrobe, his 100 + ties in a bag and stuck it in his wardrobe, together with his papers and anything else I could find. It’s been 2 ½ months and he hasn’t come to get it.


6. Must have bought all new furniture for his new place in spite of the fact that I told him that he could take what he wanted.


Lots of similarities, huh? And the fact that he’s not the only one who does these things is very illuminating.


On the other hand there are some differences, like the fact that he did not talk practically and refused to discuss separation etc. But I think he is much more confused than others here. The other day he called DD and asked her for HIS OWN MOTHER’s PHONE NUMBER. He has called his mother twice a day at that number FOR YEARS! And it was true that he didn’t remember it because 2 min after that first call he called back and told DD he must have misunderstood the number, could she repeat it. This worries me. I have actually been worried about his mental state since all this began. I think he has a clinical depression maybe MLC that has been going on for a couple of years.

MIL is on my side and cannot understand WH. In the end I didn’t send him the card for our wedding anniversary but I did remind MIL in case she talked to him.
During these 2 months and ½ I have not seen him except for the day he took my bank card back when he closed the joint account. I have only received 2 notes and a few e mails with reference to payments or the likes.

Yet lately he seems to call DDs more often and has spent more time with them.

In 10 days I’ll be starting my new job. I will have a lot of responsibility and there are good chances that I will have to travel. This is very good for me. I am hopeful that I will be able to keep my plan B dark, but I’m a little worried that it is too dark! I am still in withdrawal from WH! Can’t imagine talking to him yet… it still hurts too much. And I only get angry for very short periods of time. Sadness prevails….


So what do you think my chances are? Advice is welcome from all...
I have promised myself to remain in plan B for a year, until next Xmas. So far he has made it seem easy because he has respected my wishes but it is very hard on me, I still live in this limbo of faking it. I hate what he is doing to us, but mostly to himself. I don;t feel any respect for him anymore... at least not the WS but I don't see DH anywhere.

I have lots of helpful advice but no time tonight.

I'm pretty sure this won't last a year!!

Look for my post tomorrow morning around 9:00 AM EST here.

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I don't pot my sitch much because I don't think there is anything I can do .... but if you have any advice I'm anxiously waiting to hear from you.

I ahve some meetings but will try to connect a little after 9 (that is 1 pm for me).

I must add that everyone says that OW screams and shouts at WH, which is something I never used to do. So I suppose he is very addicted and will have trouble getting away. He has never been violent with me but who knows what their R is like.

I hopewhat Mortarman told you about us having like a vault where we put our feelings in is true. This is so emotionally draining...

Anyway, Thank you for taking the time to read and I'll check later for your advice.

CC:

Your situation is amazingly like mine. This is definitely some sort of syndrome someone probably has written up somewhere. Powerful middle-aged man in a longterm marriage meets up with younger woman from another class/educational level who turns his life around and can lead to his destruction, married to an upwardly mobile, intelligent wife. YUK!!

I think I can help by sharing what I have learned from my H now about what he was doing and what he has been able to share about the nature of his R with the OW.

One thing is for sure. THIS IS NOT A NORMAL, HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP! We cannot apply our logic and understanding to it! The relationship is "sick"! Apply all adjectives that you associate with this. Think of a relationship that is characterized by uncontrolled passion, unbridled emotion or whatever. That's them!

So we have the issue of SECRECY. Yes, guilt is a major factor. Why? Who would want anybody to know the true nature of such a sick relationship? H seems so embarassed by stuff that has happened between them and stuff they did. I don't think it's at a level that we can comprehend or would be able to stomach. About the secrecy, you asked this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How long will OW stand this? I’ve planted that seed into some co workers head. Also I’ve been told that OW’s mother now wants to keep secret the fact that OW is not living at home anymore! Weird! If I were having an A (and it should have been me,sigh) I would not be ashamed at this point when everyone knows!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, you tried to apply your own healthy, logic to this. You say, "If I were having an A.... Don't do this as I indicated above. Your logic doesn't apply here. This is why the R will not last! Your H will return to you in order to try to regain his sanity. Listen to this. My H actually told me that the OW wanted to MAINTAIN THE SECRECY. I thought it was him. He got to the point of wanting to legitimize what he was doing because he was starting to feel crazy. The fact that she wanted to maintain the secrecy scared him. At the beginning of our recovery, all he talked about was how wonderful it was to be NORMAL again, to be out in society again. SO SECRECY IS A GOOD THING! THIS WILL BE A MAJOR PART OF THE DEATH SENTENCE.

I think that there is a need to maintain the fantasy so that he will not see the real her. She does not know how to have a real, normal R with him. So, she will have to be everything to him and she will have to maintain the fantasy. SHE WILL FAIL! H said that he came to REALIZE THAT IT WAS ALL BS! That she was pretending, that she was playing a game, that she was not who she claimed to be. He will begin to long for you and the real world and will be held prisoner in a world with her!

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess he felt relieved but he never talked about R or A, actually refused to. That is a difference with your WH which makes me think that my plan B will be much longer.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't remember my H doing this. He tried to talk me out of my PLAN A, not wanting to believe that it was real, not wanting to believe that my changes would last, wanting to justify his A to himself. I remember that type of conversation early on. I don't know how long your PLAN B will last but remember this. TIME IS ON YOUR SIDE. The more time he has with her alone without your presence the better. He will begin to see the real her!! Certainly their R will not last!! NO WAY!!!!

You say:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In spite of all this he has continued to pay all the expenses and has even sent me some cash! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just like my FWH, he continues to consider you to be his wife. She is the OW. You also mentioned how he wanted to buy you a car, bought the freezer. Wow, your H is my H! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That is his connection with you. He is still connected. He knows that he is out there playing with her. He just doesn't know how to get disconnected and find his way back home. It's funny to me now. I know folks who do not have Rs like ours, CC, may not understand this next sentence but.... OW is still driving her shabby car; my FWH could have bought her a new one but he didn't. He bought me a new car prior to coming home. He now drives that car and since that time has bought me a newer one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Like you say, the car is not that important to me. It's what he likes to do. Gives him an ego trip to say to himself, "I bought MY WIFE a car. He knows that you are his wife and she is a tramp!!

You say about the OW:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is the “predator” kind looking to get some wealthy guy and has actually stated that “she has plans and no one is going to get in her way”. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She does not have a clue about Rs and M. You are getting in her way, for sure. What she wants you to do is to go away and to give up on your H. She wants you to start dating and move on..... Like I said before, he will get to know her. My H began to dislike the fact that OW was such a poor mother. He couldn't understand how she could abandon her daughter for him. The narcissist side of him liked it but, having his own children, he knew it was wrong. Again, my H is like yours. He did not like our boys to have babysitters. He wanted me to be there for them. SO THE OTHER
PART OF THE DEATH SENTENCE IS HER CHARACTER. He will begin to question her about how she is treating her children. He will try to reeducate her and she will not listen or understand.

Also this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Apparently she is starting a university career NOW, although she pretended to study before </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just like the OW in my case. You know what she's trying to do, don't you? She's trying to be you. A friend of mine made me aware of this. Just like my friend told me: "She will never be able to catch up with you". What is happening, CC, is this. He is trying to make her into you. He is asking her to cook the meals that you cook. He is trying to involve her in intellectual conversations and she is trying to pretend that she understands what he is talking about. I'm laughing now as I type this. My FWH instructed the OW to read the newspaper each day so that he could talk to her about the news in the evenings. He tried to get her to begin to read books. Laughable isn't it? She will fail miserably.......Don't you see why she wants to maintain the fantasy world?

I can hardly believe that about your H's clothes. It is exactly the same pattern as my H. It means that he plans to come back home. Is there some way you can shake this up some? My H became fearful when he realized that home might not be there anymore. Selling the house was a real turning point.

HIS MENTAL STATE: It is the fog, addiction, whatever you want to call it. Probably the drug is beginning not to work and he is struggling to get the sensation back. You know like when an alcoholic keeps going on binges. He is out of control now for sure. You are not there to offer him stability and sanity. My H is just now becoming normal again. Just think of him as being TEMPORARILY INSANE. He is not thinking logically, is delusional and feels out of control.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet lately he seems to call DDs more often and has spent more time with them </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You see, trying to get some hold on reality. He probably asks them about you and what's going on at the house. His time with them will also put him in touch with the fact that you are his wife and hold his history and, most importantly, he will get in touch with what a poor mother the OW is.

Don't be worried about your PLAN B being too dark. I think your new job and traveling is great! He will wonder about what you are doing. He will be concerned that you will not be there waiting for him like he hopes.

Remmeber his plan is to do this as long as he has to and as long as he can.

More later. Have to go to do some work now.

I'm back to finish up with my thoughts thus far.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am still in withdrawal from WH! Can’t imagine talking to him yet… it still hurts too much. And I only get angry for very short periods of time. Sadness prevails….
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, CC! I really feel for you. How can you not be sad? It's so awful what has happened to you, to us? I didn't know sometimes how I would make it. I just keep going on steam. Sometimes it all gets to me even now. It gets better and better each day. However, this has been a major life trauma that no should ever have to go through. I think it has made me a stronger and better person. However, I can't help but ask why I had to go through this to get to this place. You've read about the stuff that I did and experienced. I couldn't bear to read through it.

I know his R with her will not last! That's for sure. She's undoubtably a nut and a sleaze like the FOW in my case. The question is will he be able to get back home to you? Will your DH resurface and return before he destroys himself?

Keep moving forward, CC. Be the best you that you can be. Focus in on your job and any new interests or travels that have been intriguing to you. Like Georgia and his pottery and his new house.....

I did find it was helpful to continue to EXPOSE the A as much as you can. Selectively tell those who won't use it to hurt you that your H has left you for another woman. They may not say anything to him but he will feel the stares and the avoidance of people who used to interact with him. Some people may say things to him directly. I walked boldly around in the community while he had to stay SECLUDED WITH HER. Remember that is a good thing.

Mimi, you made me cry <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

thank you for your thoughts. I was really astounded at the similarities when I read your thread. I would read day by day and think Mimi has been holding on for 2 weeks, 3 weeks etc. Of course I am living those days.... but things are getting better.

Today I went to introduce myself at the new job I will be starting in a week, because this coming week is a holiday here. Everyone was so glad to see me, and even people I did not know had heard of me... It was an awesome experience. I know they are expecting a lot from me and that there is a lot to do, and that's the kind of job I like. A challenge! So hopefully I will be so busy I can forget WH for a while.

This coming week DDs are off to different places. I will be going to the beach with the dog ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ) and willprobably come back wednesday. Some people work until wed and have the rest of the week off. WH told DDs that he is "staying" because he has to work, but his office is open only until tuesday I think.

I don't think I mentioned that part of WH's office is at home, and he has people who come to work here everyday. Tomorrow he's having lunch with DDs and they will tell him that he has to come open the door for his employees on mon and tues at least. I'm sure he will look around the house and maybe take some more of his stuff. Do you think I should leave SAA in sight?

I have already let Dd's know so that they can tell him that once I start the new job I won't be coming to open the door and although I have a maid who says she will do it she'snot always here. On the other hand I have told Dds it is not our problem and they have started putting pressure on him to get that part of the office out. He has a place for them to move, has had it for a long time but he stalls because he doesn't want all these people around. Nor does OW. All of these people are on my side.This could turn out to be something similar to your selling the house! Dds want that space for themselves, so they are interested in him moving his office out too.

I know you are right in everything you say. You have lived it and survived. I hope I can one day confirm it for my sake, yours and all the other people we could help.

Now about his being insane, I hope it reverts. It's scary the way he acts sometimes.

I'll be on for a few hours now. There is such a huge time difference...
And our situations are so similar!
It's really incredible.

<small>[ March 18, 2005, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: cc46 ]</small>

I'm so happy for you and your new job. It certainly will help with the self-esteem as you've already discovered!

You asked about your H's visit to the house:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sure he will look around the house and maybe take some more of his stuff. Do you think I should leave SAA in sight?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there a way for you to lock the rest of the house so that he can't go around at will. I don't think that's a good idea. He especially should not have access to your bedroom. Can you put a lock on the door before you leave? As you will read in my stuff, like Mortarman used to tell me, he's got to FEEL THE PAIN. I remember my H going into his closet as if to get a hold on reality. Your H probably will do this and those occasions prolong the A just a bit longer. He says to himself, my home is still here waiting for me, I can go on with this a bit longer. Reading SAA is useless for him until he gets out of the fog. My H insisted that it didn't appy to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

As I read further, why haven't you insisted that he get the office out? Give him a time frame. What do you think? Are you able to come to his house at will?

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He has a place for them to move, has had it for a long time but he stalls because he doesn't want all these people around. Nor does OW </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he wants to keep a place for himself in the house. Continued cake-eating, keeping an eye on you, making it known that this continues to be his house!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dds want that space for themselves, so they are interested in him moving his office out too.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would proceed with plans to make this a space for your daughters. I was going to suggest that you think of reason that you need the space. Here it is. Let him know about the plans and when the renovations will begin.

GET THE KEY FROM HIS ASAP or CHANGE THE LOCKS so that he always has to be let in until he has to move out.

The similarities are almost unbelievable. It must be some aspect of human nature that we are speaking about or maybe this was meant to be. I don't know what your religious beliefs are but I am thinking maybe GOD brought us together.

One of my best friends in high school was from Guatemala and lives there.

Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately I can't lock the house up at least this time because I leave before DDs who will be staying here until sunday, but I may lock my room up, so he will wonder why.

I will also bring up the subject of downstairs more often so dds put some pressure on him to move and tell a friend who works for him in that area to do the same.

I also have to empty his nighttable. I will do that tonight, so he has no valid excuse for wanting anything out of the bedroom.

BTW, you have to get a map. I'm way south.....
Had to edit. I doubt anyone else from here reads on MB but you never know.... we tend to find people from this country in the strangest places.

Anyway, at this moment I am just looking forward to my trip. I will enjoy.

Thanks again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

cc46

Many congratulations on your new position. I just know that you are really going to enjoy every minute of it.

I have read you posts including Mimis thread of her terrible time 03. It so does sound like your stitch.

She is so good at her analogy of situations just keep on listening to her.

You have my heartfelt wishes on the road map of life.

I am fine i take baby steps each day. Unfortunatly this professional disentanglement is a slow process sometimes i wish my WH OW was not so educated. You see of course that i still call him WH as until the NC is established i dont trust anything. All actions are positive at the moment.

On another note I just love the sea so am very envious of your ability to just go and stay there. Take lots of good books want watch the waves they go up and down like our lives.

Hi mimi, I hope you and family are well awasome year 03 I dont think it was a good year for a vintage red though. I do enjoy a good glass ( of friends would say more) of red.

Take care now will be back to talk after the weekend.

Luv ya

Do you think I should leave SAA in sight?

NOPE..
you should leave a big bouquet of flowers with a card that says...it was nice talking with you..

and you should print out some info on some vactation spots...and leave them on the counter as well...

ARK

<small>[ March 19, 2005, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>