HI Friends,<BR> My W and I have a good stretch of 4-5 days and now of course we are back to square one!! Everytime we get close satan pulls something out of his bag of tricks. I know this is long please try and be patient. I need you guys!! THANKS<P><BR>Friday I was out but W called and left a message<BR>thanking me AGAIN for being there for her family and how she felt she should<BR>have been there more for MY mother when my Father passed away.<BR> Then W tells me WHERE she is working that night!! W has been keeping that<BR>from me for a month since I told her I went to her work with flowers and she<BR>wasn't there. I took it as a sign W wanted me to come up.<P>So I drove up at 2am (she was on 11-7am ) And brought W a rose and a<BR>little stuffed animal with a little significance to us.<BR> W was very glad to see me and said it was sweet. We went into the other<BR>room to talk. I gave her a card I've had that said she was God's greatest<BR>gift to me. And I wrote "Please be my Wife" I love you everyday, I miss<BR>you everyday"<BR> W was all sweet so I "pushed" a little harder. I said "Baby, please come<BR>home" W said "I'm not ready to come home" (the last few times W said I'M<BR>NEVER GOING BACK TO YOUR PLACE I HATE IT THERE")<P> I asked her to help me fight for our marriage. I said I couldn't fight<BR>alone anymore. I was tired. I told her she shouldn't buy the house with OM<BR>and that she knew we would get back together and that it was TOO much of a<BR>commitment to make to another man. W said " What am I supposed to do?"<BR>"I'm not ready to come home and I need a place to live" I told her if she<BR>left OM and we worked on our marriage that I would pay for an apartment for<BR>her" W said "Why are you pushing me so hard all of a sudden"? I told her<BR>time was running out and she shouldn't make that kind of commitment.<P> We talked and talked and cried and at the end W hugged me and said "I'm<BR>not saying I'm coming home (long pause) but I'm not saying I'm not anymore"<BR>"But I'm not doing ANYTHING until I get counseling".<P> The next day I got a call from my SIL that my FIL was VERY BAD and she<BR>couldn't get in touch with W. I should call her and our kids and get there<BR>right away. I went to OM office because they had moved (AGAIN) and demanded<BR>he stop screwing around and tell me where my W was.<P> W was asleep in sleazy motel room they are in now and I hurried her down to<BR>her fathers. He had been gone when my SIL called but she didn't want to<BR>tell us because of the long drive. After the body was taken out I took my<BR>W to the mall to buy her some clothes so she could stay until Tuesday for<BR>the memorial service.<P> I left and went back Monday and stayed until Wednesday with my W. It was<BR>bitter sweet. All the family was there and W and I slept in the spare room<BR>(me on the floor cause there was a single bed) I stroked her arm until she<BR>slept. The second night after the memorial service. I climbed on the bed<BR>with her and stroked her hair and neck for an hour because she felt<BR>nauseous. I ALMOST got to sleep there but W woke up and said she needed<BR>to sleep on her back. I had a minor LB because I was hurt. We went back to<BR>sweet in the morning.<P> The next morning I was up before her and was talking to my BIL who<BR>remarried her S. MY SIL was a betrayer and he was telling me to take it<BR>slow because I was mad after the "floor incident" W asked what we were<BR>talking about I told her he had changed and was really trying now. W asked<BR>me questions ALL the way home about her sisters affair and they're recovery.<BR>I got to sneak in a few "stats" on affairs and the hurt and guilt the<BR>betrayer feels. Even related a couple of times to US. W stopped me from<BR>that after a while and said "Just tell me about them"<BR> Anyway, the "feeling between us was really good and we got closer than<BR>ever. W even "fixed" my ingrown toenails for me. Life was GOOD!!!<P> THEN yesterday and TODAY.....<BR> W never called on Thanksgiving (W spent it with OM instead of her<BR>Mother!!) because as SOON as W got back. OM told her that his friend had<BR>called and told him that me and his W had been talking to each other. I<BR>know it was a bad move and I warned her NOT to tell ANYONE we were talking<BR>and she did. So I called my W today and W said she was pissed at me, she<BR>knew we had been talking and what the hell was I trying to do?<P> I told her I'd meet her and talk. She was MAD!! I told her that the OM's<BR>W had called me a few times crying that she was lost and hurt. (W said<BR>"It's not my problem!!" ) I told her I just couldn't tell her not to call.<BR>I told her she was a very nice woman who is 58 yrs old, and scared she will<BR>be alone forever now. Not her problem...<BR> I asked her if she was going to come home (Bad timing!!!) W said "No I'm<BR>NOT coming home" W then said she was mad and I should let her go because<BR>she might say something she would regret later. I asked why she wouldn't<BR>come home. W said "I want my freedom and I haven't even been to counseling<BR>yet!!" I told her again about how I felt about THEM buying the house and<BR>offered to pay for an apartment again. W said nothing. I asked her to<BR>tell me the truth and was this a "romantic" affair. W said "No, I love him<BR>but he is just my friend, my BEST friend" W said she was feeling trapped<BR>so I told her to go BUT we needed to talk again soon. W said "Fine but<BR>PLEASE let me go now" I asked when she said "I DON'T KNOW"<BR> I'm tied, I'm going to plan "B" (see note below) Everytime we<BR>get close, satan pulls something out of his bag of tricks. Oh well, I<BR>tried. I tried. LMK what you think. THANKS FRANK<P><BR>My W'S NAME,<BR> I apologize to you for my part in creating the environment that helped<BR>make your affair with OM possible. Although I've ALWAYS loved you with my<BR>heart and soul, I made you feel that EVERYTHING was more important to me<BR>than you. It never was the case, but that is how I made you feel and for<BR>that W I am sorry. I also never understood how much having a home meant to<BR>you. I guess I never understood what a home was until you left. A place<BR>where the grandchildren are safe. I know, I understand now.<P> I said and did many things in anger that I never meant. I know I hurt<BR>you. But believe me, whenever you hurt so do I. I wish I never did them,<BR>but what can I do now. If I had known what I know now, it never would have<BR>happened. I would hurt back when I was hurt. I have learned this is wrong<BR>and through the counseling I am getting, have learned to stop it. I have<BR>also learned not to internalize things so much. This is still hard for me<BR>but I am trying.<P> I foolishly pursued my business AND a job AND my hobbies at the same time<BR>without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important<BR>emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we<BR>are now both suffering for my mistake. I am willing to avoid the mistakes I<BR>have made in the past and create a NEW life for us that will meet your<BR>needs. I truly believe that it is possible with what I have learned. But I<BR>cannot do that until you end your relationship with OM once and for all.<P> Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be<BR>able to help you financially. I have made arrangements with our friend Dave<BR>Home (617) 999-9999 cell (817) 888-9999 Office (800) 777-7777 if there<BR>is a family emergency, or something we need to communicate about our S or D<BR>or any other matter, it will have to be done through Dave. If you visit<BR>them, I will not be there.<P> I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way.<BR>You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your<BR>relationship with OM I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing you<BR>with are living with him. As I told you Friday night, I can't fight for our<BR>marriage alone anymore. I am weary. I still love you, and I will still<BR>pray for you, but I cannot see you under these conditions any longer<P> W, I have felt this way for some time but couldn't bring myself to tell<BR>you while your Father was dying. I wanted to be there to help you and the<BR>Family as you did for me when my Father was dying. I loved your Father and<BR>also needed to be with him. I didn't want any "uncomfortable" times between<BR>us to add stress to your Mother to you or anyone else in the family.<BR> As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OM, I will be<BR>willing to talk about our future, and the future of our family.<BR> I want to be able to rebuild our Marriage someday. I want us to be able<BR>to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt<BR>each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do<BR>makes us both happy. Then, there will never be a need for us to separate or<BR>to have "friends" other than each other again. I want to be your best<BR>friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you<BR>as my best friend.<P> I have spent my whole life loving you W. The first 30 years I spent<BR>looking for you and the last 14 + as your Husband. I loved you when God<BR>first brought us together as I love you right up to this day. I just cannot<BR>be with you or help you anymore as long as you are seeing OM. Now our<BR>Marriage is in God's hands.<P>With all my love FRANK<BR>OM,<BR> I love my Wife Harriet with all my heart and soul and will do whatever it<BR>takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance.<P><P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

PH,<P>Beautiful plan B letter. Very touching. I don't have anything to suggest! It was perfect.<P>Keep her in God's hands, and let Him do the work on her. I'll stand in agreement on this if you like.<P>We lost my husband's aunt this past weekend. <BR>That is the third one since August. Had to go out of town this week, and things are so strained - I couldn't ride with him down there. <P>Just have to say - you have done an excellent plan A, and I know the emotional turbulance and feelings of rejection are so great, that you can't do much more than go to plan B to keep from lovebusting.<P>It is best not to pressure your wife. Let God deal with her.<P>TNT

Oh, Frank. If you're ready for Plan B, then it definitely is time.<P>Your letter is beautiful.<P>I'm so sorry that things are going this way for you, dear friend. I know how hard you have worked. She is indeed a very lucky woman. I only wish she realized how lucky.<P>Take care. And come to us if you need us.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{Frank}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Lori

Frank,<P>{{{{{{{{{{<B>Frank</B>}}}}}}}}}}<P>I'm sorry your W is so persistant with her OM... and she just can't break away.<P>You Plan B letter was <B>great</B>...<P>It will be hard...<BR>Brace yourself for the <B><I>other</I></B> kind of <B>No Contact</B>... (not the wayward/OP(withdrawal)... but the betrayed/wayward kind)... <B>very</B>hard!<P>I'll be looking for your posts frequently...<BR>It is becoming more and more clear I will need to join you in Plan B... for me. I figure around Jan/Feb of next year (yikes... one or two months!) I really dread moving to Plan B... but my "good" toughts of her are declining... and my "bad" thoughts of her and OM are escalating... <P>I know I have to protect my love for her... <BR>Shortly after the holidays... yuck!<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 27, 1999).]

Hi PH,<P>I must say I do think you were pushing just a little too hard. In regard to the amimal and card, I would have left it at that and let her think. I know it's tough to let it go at that.<P>I'm glad you were there for her in the time of need. She will remember that.<P>I was at the same time and space that you are just a few months ago. My personality is such that I need and want immediate answers and fixes to problems and situations. It's hard as hell to back off in your present frame of mind. There is no need to tell them what they did is wrong. They know that deep down inside. Any current conversations should not have any reference to the affair. It's not that it didn't happen. You just don't need to remind her of it.<P>Only you know when you have had enough. If you have not sent the letter yet, I would suggest that you try to back off and stay with Plan A. I have mentally accepted that the marriage is over and have gained new perspective.<P>Don't make rash decisions. Take a few days.<P>Take care. God Bless<P><BR> <P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

Trustntruth,<BR> Sorry to hear about your H's aunt. These are tough times for all. Thanks for the kind words. "What did you mean "I'll stand with you in agreement on this"?<BR>She is now in God's powerful arms. <P>lostva,<BR> Thanks Lori, you are my dear friend. I pray for you all the time. I want to stay in plan "A" but am tired and just CAN'T while she and OM are buying a HOUSE together!! He is a realtor and is pushing that way. I feel if she goes through with the closing, my Marriage is over. I may be wrong but that's how I feel. I mean WE bought a couple of houses together and she left ME!! I'm not going anywhere. I'll need you guys MORE than ever!!<P>NSR,<BR> What do you mean by "Brace yourself for the other kind of No Contact... (not the wayward/OP(withdrawal)... but the betrayed/wayward kind)... veryhard!"???<BR> Jim, I'm sorry you are going to Plan "B" too. I hope you NEVER have to. <P> MEDIC238,<BR> I haven't pushed AT ALL in the three months she has been gone. I just felt I HAD to push because the closing on the house she is buying with OM is Dec 17th. The timing is good because the apartment upstairs form his office will be vacant on Dec 1st. They will move there to wait for the closing. If she is hesitating about coming home, it may be that she wants him to be "settled" and not bouncing from Motel to 30 day rental to Motel. Once he is THERE, she can leave without feeling she abandoned him because OM left his 9 year relationship THE VERY NIGHT that I told my W to leave.<BR> She would be PRETTY COLD to leave him now!! But I feel if they buy the house, our Marriage is over.

Hey, Frank.<P>Plan B if it's time for you. But always remember, it ain't over 'til it's over. We're always here if you need us. I'm not feeling particularly wise right now, but I'm sending a lot of prayers and hugs your way.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{Frank}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Lori

LORI,<BR> What about the house though? Can I expect her to EVER come home if THEY buy a house TOGETHER? I could easily stay in "A" if it wern't for the HOUSE!!! Maybe God will STOP it somehow??? I don't know I'm lost. FRANK

BACK TO THE TOP GUYS I NEED MORE IMPUT FRANK<P>

Frank...<P>I was just noting that a preveious thread of "no contact" was on the forum.... <B>that</B> kind is where a wayward spouse must have "no contact" with OP... to properly start "recovery"...<P>You are starting Plan B... the ideal in... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan B: Avoid <B>all contact</B> with the wayward spouse until the affair has ended (page 79 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A>)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>.<P>Any form of "no contact" is <B>very</B> hard... <P>I'll give you all the support you need... I'll need it in the future.<BR>I'm sure others will give you support too... <P>Jim

NSR,<BR> Thanks again. I WILL be there if you need me in your "B" BUT I'll pray you don't need to use it. <BR> I'm starting to think that maybe I CAN go head to head with this loser and house or not, win my W back. <BR> When she wants to work it out I'll just kick his fat stupid A** all over the street and move in with her!!!! How's that!! <P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Frank,<P>I am in planB - it has it's plusses - I don't have to empty my love bank for my H and I get to keep my self respect. <P>Your W is definitely waffling, but when she starts to get close to you again, as Medic said to you, you pushed TOO HARD and scared her off, again.<P>The wafflers need s long rope and GENTLE, guiding support - no tugs and no pulls. Trust me - I have been the "Needy Queen" and run my H way off with my intense desire to get us back together.<P>Part of the freedom she told you about INCLUDES the freedom to decide whether to come back tot the marriage or not. She will want to DECIDE for HERSELF - and not feel coerced by you.<P>PlanB will let you retract and give her the room she needs to really think through what she wants and what she wantsa to do. She may come back and then again, she may go ahead and buy that house with the OM. The point here is that NOTHING you can do will make her come home until SHE decides she wants to. But, as you have see, too much coercion can work against you, too.<P>PlanB is SOOOOOOOO HARD at first. Later, it has it's own merits - I am loving my H from afar and I get to avoid being hurt by daily contact with him while he is still so heavily involved with the OW. I am still here - will he come home - who knows??? I am working on internal strength and bettering myself. I hope my H gets to benefit from all these wonderful improvements in me, but if not - his loss and some other guy's gain later in the future. I will survive this and you will, too! We will take turns propping each other up, OK??????<P>Roll Me Away <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>