Dear AD,

I couldn't figure out how to combine 2 quotes in one post. Sorry again, for being blunt. I do understand how you are thinking. Your daughter needs you to teach her how to act appropriately. Does this sound like someone else you know?



Please get custody of your daughter. She has learned how to manipulate you just like your wife does. Is this the life you want for your daughter? She needs to learn appropriate behavior and you are the only one able to teach her that. Your duaghter will grow up to be just like your wife and she will end up treating her children the same way.

Again, I am sorry for being direct and foreward.
Lisa V.

Hi, AD.

You have several emails waiting.

All the best,
Gimble

Hi all,

I've been out sick - still feel rotten - probably will go home soon. W has been taking care of me - which is really sweet of her. I told her that I was thinking about how it would be to be sick and alone after the D. She said that even after the D, she would come and bring me some home-made soup. She did, in fact, make some perfect chicken-noodle soup. For all you who have had soup out of cans all your life, you cannot imagine how good it was! Complete with homemade noodles.

A breif update:

Last Friday (week ago) I took off from work and drove my W to a nearby city to make her appointment with the INS - to get a replacement green card. Everything went smoothly, and they put a stamp in her passport that is "as-good-as" a GC. The actual GC will come in the mail "sometime".

Saturday early, I flew out to pick up the car that I had bought for my w on e*bay. I drove it back (about 1000 miles) Sat and Sunday - arriving home in time for W to use it to go to a Sunday afternoon mother/daughter function at the church. The car turned out better than I expected. I spent some time Monday and Tuesday evening cleaning the interiour, and it looks pretty good to me.

W is not pleased with the car, mostly because it is much less powerful than her old car. Although I didn't give her much input in the process, it is what she asked for. As part of our D agreement, I would buy her a "reliable car 2000 or newer, costing not less than $6000". This fits that description, but she forgot to ask for power and luxury too - so she didn't get any (power or luxury). Really, it's the kind of car you can drive for 10 years and it won't break. Also it got 35mpg on the drive home - which with today's gas prices should be good for a newly D'd lady with a child on a limited budget.

This weekend, I've got to clean up her old car and put it up for sale in the paper next week.

W's nephew is supposedly moving out this weekend. She feels guilty about it - and is trying to give him a bunch of stuff - dishes - maybe bedroom furniture. I told her that in the D agreement, I had put his bedroom furniture on her list. If she wants to give it to him, she can, but then she won't have a bed herself.

N doesn't speak to me at all these days. Yesterday I woke him up around noon or 1pm to yell at him a bit. I told him not to ask W for anything that he wanted from me. If he wanted something from me, ask me. I'm tired of the circle of whine. He whines to her, and she whines to me (to give him whatever it is he's whining about). I want to get her out of the middle of that.

This (highly uncharacteristic for me) event was precipitated by W, after very sweetly taking care of me while I've been sick, coming to me asking about the car title for N's car. I gave him the car a couple of years ago, but the title was still in my name. I had not been able to find the title. W asked me to find it and sign it over to him. I said I would do it. She replied that I said that 2 months ago. I said, well, it's not a time-critical matter. I'll look for it. She just would not stop - just over and over again, asking me for this thing. I don't understand why she, and other women, do that. Nagging has to be one of the most counter-productive things a wife can do. The primary effect is that I just wanted her to go away. I was so sick, I could hardly stand, and I regret to report that I shouted at W - just told her to leave me alone. She didn't move - so I shouted some more. I got up and searched the likely places in the house, then got the form on-line to replace a lost title, filled it out and took it to the post-office, stopped by my office briefly to file my time for the week, and returned home and fell into bed again. So, I guess nagging paid off.

Last night, she came and fell asleep in the MBR, but woke after awhile, realized where she was and went downstairs. I didn't bother her. I think she's getting sick too.

BTW, there was a message on my office phone from the lawyer's secretary - that she has a packet ready for me to look over. I haven't returned the call.

-AD

Hi, AD.

Sorry to hear you have been ill.

That was very kind of your wife to take care of you.

Are you aware that all the yelling that takes place in your home is due primarily to a lack of proper boundaries?

As for the 'nagging', it worked. Your wife got what she wanted. Again, this should be a boundary issue, both on you doing what you said you would, and on her demanding of you in inappropriate ways and at inappropriate times.


All the best,
Gimble

Hi Gimble,

Thanks for stopping by...

Hmmm... "all the yelling is due to a lack of propper boundaries".

I'm thinking about it. Maybe you are right. I regret having yelled at my W. I know it has a bad effect on her.

-AD

AD, the yelling is indicative of other issues.

You have to yell at nephew to get out of the bed. Why?

Since you had to rouse him, I assume that he is not exactly a guest in your home. Is there an understanding that he will work? Is he to contribute financially? Is he a freeloader? Are you his alarm clock? What is the arrangement?

If he is there and not filling his end of an agreement, then it is time to put him out. Putting him out doesn't take days. It can be accomplished in just a few minutes. Did you assume responsibility for him? If there is no agreement, then it is time to strike one.

You did good on setting a boundary that he had to speak to you directly.

All the best,
Gimble

Oops, violation! Gender generalizations.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Have a good weekend AD!

No, it's just that if he's asleep, he doesn't hear me unless I yell. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

He moved out this afternoon - although he's probably coming back for a few things. I don't know where he went.

-AD

That is excellent news!

Now you and your wife might find some time for real privacy.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,

Yes, it is excellent!

It is the best thing to happen around here for a couple of years at least.

I can't imagine what unfortunate torrent of gamma-rays or whatever put me in a state of mind to agree to that arrangment. I think I wanted to be "the big man" - the "benefactor". <phphphphphph!!!!> on being the benefactor. It cost me ... $$$$, time, agrevation, accumulated resentments on all sides and what did I get out of it? Nothing. What did anybody get out of it? I'm not sure it even did my nephew any good. I trained him to be lazy and have a sense of entitlement. That's about it. He did learn a little at the university, but I think there are sharp high-schoolers who know more than he does.

At least it's over - except for the small duty of writing a letter to his dad - just to wrap things up. I'm not sure what line to take. "Your son is moving on..." OR "I am so relieved that at last, the son which you foisted off on me in a moment of my weakness, has walked out of my life for good!", OR "These are the good points and bad points of your son as I see it now". (The last one is probably what I'll do.)

Meanwhile, I'm almost over being sick, but my wife and child are now sick. It's a miserable little sickness - takes all the energy out of you.

Thank God I'm feeling better.

My W and I are getting along reasonably well these days. There may be a change of direction soon. Meanwhile, I still haven't called the lawyer's secretary about picking up the papers (which are ready).

-AD

Hi, AD.

So, are you going to get a sitter for Friday night and take your wife out for dinner and dancing?

Gimble

Gimble,

A night out to celebrate our freedom... That sounds like an interesting idea! But we are taking baby steps here.

Meanwhile, everybody's sick, but I'm improving.

-AD

Hi, AD.

Ask her out. Specifically to dinner and dancing. You arrange for a competent babysitter.

Think youthful activities.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,

I get the general idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

However, I'll make adjustments for the particular lady in question.

-AD

AD,

Still reading your post but trying to stay quiet mostly. However I just have to say that there are many marriages on here I hope can be saved, but yours is at the very top.

Your WW needs you and I think you need her too (and of course you DD as well). I always read the passion part between the lines (I'm not talking SF) between the two of you. And the love is apparent as well.

What was missing it seemed to me was the respect. And I know that Gimble is helping you with the boundaries part which will be the beginning of the respect part.

A woman cannot love (in a wife sense of the way) a man she doesn't respect, and good boundaries by the man has EVERYthing to do with that.

So here I am thinking (hoping too) that things will turn around for you and your family! Not to give false hope if none exists, but to share that I see hope.

Weaver,

Thanks for the hopeful words. Right now, I don't feel much hope for saving this. The innapropriate relationship with OM is not the entire problem. The interferance of her family is not the entire problem. Even without those two, there would be big problems.

I just returned from a very unpleasant series of interactions with my wife. You are quite right to say that respect is missing. I'll not go into details here - except to say that this evening, I did every thing she asked of me without hesitation, no matter how rudely she asked, nor how many insults she heaped on me. I did not react to her provocations - because there is little point in it, and also because she still has a fever, and she is under a lot of stress right now. When she is under stress, she is a very unpleasant person.

After three hours of "helping her" (at her request), her final words were to call me names and say that she hates me.

Probably, she'll call in a little while to say that she's sorry. I won't be very impressed by her appologies. I think I'll go take myself to a nice restaurant alone - and miss her call.

-AD

Hi, AD.

Question. What did she have you do for three hours?

Did you do something to provoke a bad response from her? Be honest.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,

OK, I'll submit to your examination.

Tuesday, W asked me to be home by 4:45 - she had a class at 5:30, and, although very sick, she needed to make a presentation.

I arrived home at 4:40. Sorry for the details, but I was had to take a bathroom break. She was banging on the door saying - "You come home and then you dissappear! I need your help with printing something!". I reappear. The printer is out of ink.

Background on the ink...

Sunday night, I had offered to go buy some ink, but she had said that it was too late that night and I should go to bed - could get it on Monday, but Monday at lunch I was taking my wife to the doctor, and I left work early monday to take my daughter to the doctor - and after my daughter threw up in my car on the way home, I got everybody in their places and cleaned the child seat etc. and (remember that I'm just barely on the upside of this same illness), went to bed. So Monday I didn't buy ink.

So, she was trying to print something to hand out to her class while she gave a presentation - and there was no ink. She was furious with me (of course, being "the man", I am responsible for ink, but if we were out of milk, I would be responsible for that too). I told her. I'll print it at the office and you can take it from there. (My office is on her way to the university and the printer at the office is, in any case, much faster).

So, I wrote her files on my little usb-flashdrive and left. I took w's old car since my van didn't have a child seat in it at the moment. The plan was that W was to bring DD with her, stop by the office, pick up the prints, leave DD with me - and be off to the U. When I had the things printing, she called from her cell - she was outside. I picked up the printing and went out.

W had moved over to the right seat - and it went without saying that she expected me to drive her to class and keep DD and wait for her. I didn't mind. She was pretty sick and didn't feel like driving.

All the way to class, she was angrily tearing sheets loose from the staples - saying that I printed it all wrong and there was an extra blank sheet on each copy and I was such an idiot etc. I didn't respond to all that except to say that the machine stapled it, not I, and I didn't have time to proof it - only to print it - and if there was a blank sheet on there, it was in the document. She was fuming and saying "I hate you!".

Ok, so we get there. She assigns me a program of walking with DD by the lake on campus and being back to pick her up at a certain time. I had my own program. I drove to OfficeMax with DD and bought the ink. I was back waiting for w at the assigned time. We waited 20 minutes, DD and I, listening to music.

W came out. She had a donut - apparently somebody in class had brought them. She gave it to DD. We started to drive home - with her interogating me about what I did while she was in class. I answered her questions without rancour. She said she wanted to buy more donuts. I suggested that I would fill her car with gas and get a box of donuts at the gas station. That was not good enough. She wanted to go to Krispy Kreme. There used to be a Dunkin Donuts near the campus. I drove by there, but it was closed.

W was asking "Why are you driving here! Why are you always driving my new car!? I don't want you to drive my car!" I said "Ok, we can stop and you drive. I didn't ask to drive your car." She declined. She started going on about how I was intentionally trying to wear out her new car and she didn't want me to drive it anymore. I told her that I would not drive it. I bought gas for her. She asked to see the reciept (since she has not yet bought gas in this car and it gets much better fuel economy). I showed her the receipt and she made some comment about it, which I didn't catch and didn't respond to as she expected, so she called me an idiot again and reminded me that she hates me.

I asked if she still wanted to go to Krispy Kreme and she said "No, just go home. I can drive there myself if I want to. I don't want you to drive my car." (I will note that we were much closer to KK than to home. KK is probably 15 miles from our house.) So I started driving home with her complaining about the route. Then she remmbered that the other car was at my office - and she said I was an idiot to drive toward home when I needed to get the other car. I said I would go to the office. The quickest way is to drive past home. She said it didn't feel good to drive past home and not stop, so I should take the other route. I replied that it would take much longer that way, but I would go that way - and I did.

So, all along the way she went - saying she hates me and I'm an idiot. She started talking about the citizenship - asking when she could expect it. I told her I didn't know - that there was no way of knowing - that sometimes the INS (USCIS) moves quickly but most times slowly and there was no way of knowing when they would get to her case. She was talking about what a cruel system it is that leaves people in the dark with their lives on hold for years. I agreed that it is not a good system. She accused me of intentionally delaying her citizenship - asserting that I didn't want her to be a citizen like me, and that if I really wanted it, I would find a way to make it happen. I reminded her that there are 900,000 pending applications for citizenship and all those people are in the same boat - and there is nothing that can be done about it. You just have to wait your turn. Then, she came up with a new insult (amazing after 6 years of marriage). She said that I was a racist. I honestly can't follow her logic, but somehow because she is "asian", and not a citizen, and I'm "white" and a citizen, and in her mind somehow keeping her from being a citizen, I'm a racist. She could see that it hurt me for her to say that - so she said it a few more times - and repeated that she hates me. When we got to the office, I just got out and walked into the building.

That's when I made my post last night.

There was more, at home later, but I'm too tired to go through all that.

So, Gimble, I'm sure you're going to tell me what I did wrong. But honestly, I don't care. If it's going to be a constant acrobatics act to keep her from insulting me and professing her hatred for me in front of our child, well... I'm no longer willing to make the effort.

I'm calling the lawyer today - get those papers to look over.

-AD

Hi, AD.

Quote:
==================================
So, Gimble, I'm sure you're going to tell me what I did wrong. But honestly, I don't care. If it's going to be a constant acrobatics act to keep her from insulting me and professing her hatred for me in front of our child, well... I'm no longer willing to make the effort.
==================================

Thank you for telling me the details.

It is, of course, your choice to care or not.

Let me make a few observations then a suggestion or four.

Your wife is bouncing around like she has no walls, no boundaries, no place where she feels safe. That is probably the largest source of resentment in her. That resentment dates back quite a while.

The entitlement you see mixed in all that is partly fueled by her resentments, but mostly, it seems to be from a lack of boundaries in her life.

When she was young, she had some boundaries, but they were harsh and she felt unloved, except for the fact that her parents at least set limits on her behavior.

Now she is older, and she has tried to be 'free', the only perceived constraints now being her citizenship and her marriage to you. The problem is that if or when she gets her final 'freedom', she will sink like a tanker full of ore. If she is the primary care provider for your daughter at that time, this could be a bad thing.

You have a dilemma on your hands. You want an equal, a mate, someone to share your life and interests with. What you have is a rebellious teen in adult's clothing who keeps bouncing around trying to figure out what is wrong, when she has no basic direction in her life. Add to that the difference in your ages.

This is what makes your situation unusual and a bit difficult, but not unsalvageable.

Here is some of what I think you will have to do in order to begin repairing your marriage.

1) You are going to have to provide, an almost fatherly, stabilizing influence to your wife. This is not as bad as it sounds, and is quite normal in some cultures.

2) You are going to have to set very real boundaries with your wife. Defining what is acceptable behavior from her toward you and toward your child.

Those two items have to be provided in a loving but firm manner.

I also understand that particular responsibility set is not something you wanted to provide in the marriage.

Right now, your behavior is enabling hers. Your behavior being defined as lacking in the above two components. That doesn't mean you are a bad guy, just that your wife is not getting what she needs from you. I bet she isn't getting it from the other man either.

If you want to discuss this further, I am willing to try and help.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,

I've read your post. I'll post later when I've thought about it some more.

-AD