Informal survey:

Is anyone here living with a spouse who *says* they want the marriage and *says* they are doing nothing a married person shouldn't do anymore, but also insists that you "move on" and "get over it" and absolutely rock-headedly refuses to apologize for their hurtful actions *and those of their APs*?

If they refuse, why do you think this is -- beyond the obvious of "because they're not sorry?"
Mulan

they are to afraid to face the reality of what they've done.

i lived with it for 3 yrs.....he is FINALLY doing what needs to be done and not ducking and weaving anymore. i dont suggest this for most----it is very painful.....

Well, my H did say, "I apologize." one time; but, yeah, I'm still living with a spouse like that. However, he does treat me much better. Guess he figures that's all he's required to do.

Now, I'm waiting for the next slip of his tongue about who else he's been involved with. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If they refuse to apologize it is because a) they are not sorry and b) they have no intention of changing.

Yes, that would be my WH. He has apologized for individual things that he has said and done but not for the A.

I think I agree with Melodaylane, as that is pretty much what my WH did.
Now that I think back, he didn't act real sorry. He wanted to sweep it all under the rug.
AND he never stopped the A, even though he was trying everything to prove to me that he had.

He had both OW and I wrapped around his finger I guess.

I read somewhere that in order for a victim of infidelity to move on and heal they must know that the infidel really "gets" it. Gets the hurt he has caused, the level of devastation he has caused his spouse (and) others.

Without this it is extremely difficult for the betrayed spouse to forgive and heal.

I believe this with all my heart.

Why some don't "get" it - well I think like someone else on this thread said, they are unwilling to take a good hard look at what they have done, either that or they haven't changed at all and they feel a certain "resentment" that they have to play the part of "good married person". A resentment that they have to stop the behavior they are entitled to because their spouse won't tolerate it anymore.

Imagine that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

My H has certainly admitted that he did wrong, that he acted selfishly and that he was weak. But he has never been able to cope with the pain that his actions have caused; he recoils from the emotional distress or dismisses it or simply 'fails' to see it. (I have sat at the dinner table with tears dripping from my face, with H totally oblivious.)

I'm beginning to realise that this is a long-established defence mechanism for him, and that it extends to his whole family. I suspect he's not even aware that he's doing it. I'm currently reading 'Vital Lies, Simple Truths' by Daniel Goleman (the author of 'Emotional Intelligence') that analyses the way that individuals / families / groups deflect uncomfortable truths from themselves to reduce anxiety.

What the book hasn't told me so far is what to do about it!

TogetherAlone

They are trying to avoid the elephant in the room and just move on.

They are avoiding the intimacy and honesty required to pick the affair apart and process it.

Just "forgetting it" seems to be the easiest and least painful way to deal with it, but it is not the best way.

Susan

***He has apologized for individual things that he has said and done but not for the A.***

Well, I've got the exact opposite -- he will say he is "sorry he hurt me," and "sorry he didn't take better care of me" -- but when I say that I need to hear him apologize for things like comforting HER when SHE got drunk and insulting me in public, he just glares and says "I don't know what to tell you about that."

???

My theory on this, FWIW (not much): H has always had a VERY high opinion of himself. He thinks of himself as a noble, honorable, gooder-than-good guy, a real knight in shining armor -- and this is exactly what got him into trouble with the workplace Lonely Heart's Club in the first place. They LOVED having him ride to their rescue and be their hero, and he loved it too.

I have told him how frightening it has been for me to learn that my noble, honorable good-guy husband had been easily, happily and cold-bloodedly lying to me for YEARS so he could go off and soak up attention from workplace bimboes and business-trip strip joints.

But this does not jive at all with the wonderful opinion he has of himself. I think he decided a long time ago that he would admit to nothing, and he doesn't. Instead, he fights viciously against anything that holds up a mirror of truth -- and that would be me. And of course, I am blamed for "ruining what should be the best time of our lives" by wanting real apologies for things that I did not ask for and he freely chose to do.

He has repeatedly shown that he will gladly let me suffer rather than have to face the truth of what he did and honorably, and nobly, take responsibility for it.

He simply refuses to do this. He is sorry he hurt me, but has repeatedly shown me that he WILL live without me rather than apologize to me for anything he did. I get nothing but anger and blame and defenses for EVERYTHING -- and I do mean everything, from the sappy e-mails to the two-hour off-site lunches and his hiding the fact that his favorite bimbo was on his business trips with him.

I'm just wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone else. I don't think there is anything I can do about. I'm just curious, really.

Anyone? Anyone?
Mulan

I guess you were right Mulan, we kinda ARE in the same boat. The only difference is that he did apologize, if you want to call it that. He said what do you want me to say?! im sorry? fine then i am, but that doesnt make it go away does it?! Hows that going to help?" I guess he feels like he left ow alone, came home to his family, is trying to be the best h and f he can be, but he has a wife "living in the past" as he puts it and " who needs to get over it already" And im sorry, but i cant. Is this my fault?

Mulan,

Maybe we should just stick with those horses!!

At least your H may admit to maybe doing something wrong!! Mine will just say that yeah, maybe he's wrong for not being honest about his resentments, but really it's all my fault anyway. And there was absolutely nobody else involved!!

No, honestly, I can see your sitch is bad and I am so sorry!! We do both seem to be with spouses, wayward or not, that are resistant to improving the marital relationship. And that is bad enuf, if one is dis-satisfied and wanting/needing more!!

My H "says" that he wants the M and that he has never been "unfaithful". Whatever happened (our incident, where I caught him being dishonest about Everything), I should just "get over" it. Pretend like it didn't happen and if I do bring it up, it is an LB in itself!!! No matter what I say or how I say it.

I really am so sorry Mulan - for both of us, and all here!!!

jls

I suppose that 5 months from D-day is too soon to expect any kind of apology. I agree with weaver that this is something I need to fully heal. It's going to be a long time coming.

My IC therapist had a story about this. Her husband left her with 2 small kids many, many years ago. (Needless to say, this was why she had a great deal of empathy for me and didn't like WH at all.) She said that her closure came some 15 years after her divorce. The OW in her story eventually married the WH. True to pattern, OW/NewW cheated on the husband and left him. Suddenly, the picture became crystal clear to WH. At that point, he finally apologized to my therapist for the agony he had caused her by his A and the divorce so long before. Some people are slow learners.

I know that my WH may never come home. But he mostly certainly will not come home if he doesn't apologize for the whole thing.

Mulan-your husband sounds even worse than mine

I can give you three reasons:

1) Like Susan said, they want to pretend it never happened and move on. An apology drives discussion.

2) What I think is likely in many cases...the WS is angry and resentful towards the BS for their part in the degradation of the marriage. They are angry because they believe the affair happened because the BS was a lousy spouse.

While I quickly understood that the affair was own doing and I owned it, I'm not sure I would've been so quick to extend apologies if my wife hadn't recognized her part in our broken relationship. I needed an apology from her as well. I was truly angry that she had refused to work on things that allowed us to get to this place. I was angry that it took an affair to "turn her around".

3) Lastly, and I believe this to be minority of cases...they dislike their BS so much that they don't care. They aren't sorry. There's a lot broken in those situations. I'm not sure they are ever recoverable.

Low

mulan---all i can tell you is my experience. my husband was the last person on earth you would have ever thought this from if you had met him. he was honorable and had integrity out the wahoo! would do anything for anyone and was generous to a fault. this is the man i knew and i knew he was still in there buried under all the guilt and shame. i also knew he had a ton of emotional baggage from his childhood. he was taught to never deal with emotions...period. he was even called emotionally retarded by our first therapist. she compared him to one of those electronic pets you buy kids...they act like dogs/cats.....can be trained like dogs/cats.....but there is just no emotions there! i thought he was gonna strangle her!!!!! what i didnt realize is she was exactly right!!!!

so in my case i waited 3 years for him to become emotionally healthy enough to accept what he'd done and take responsibility for it. i do NOT suggest this approach for most.....it has wreaked emotional damage on me i will be fixing for awhile. however he is taking responsibility NOW and working with me to heal not just the marriage but my emotional and health issues as well. this, our story, is long from over.....but i finally love the direction it is going.

what is the family baggage he is carrying and how does it affect his ability to cope?

Jseagull and Mulan,

Oh my GOD! I say that with the utmost respect to HIM. I am so floored by what I'm hearing here. Only because I thought I was alone. My H is the same, he will not even admit to the affair EA or PA and the EA was proven (caught red-handed). The resentment and the anger that is directed at us for discovering the problem instead of just being the blind and oblivious W we were supposed to be, is completely and utterly unfair. I am so sorry to both of you for having to go through this as well, I wouldn't wish this emotional trauma on anyone.

My FWH apologizes probably every day, but he still cannot deal with the emotional fallout. It distresses him when I am upset and gets frustrated with me. I think it is his defense mechanism as TA stated earlier.

The few times that I had contact by my WW initiated contact, she stated emphatically that if I was waiting for the NC letter it would not happen. Her reason was" because you want it" .Even though she promised me it would, she has yet to make good on that promise. My one year Plan B anniv is next week. I can't beleive that it has beenoone year that I walked away from my WW, home and cats. At times it seems like ages and other times it seems like it all happened yesterday

I suspect everyine has valid points here. There are differnt kinds of FWS's.

Some are like Melody describe's. Although I think they are NOT the norm. Most of that type leave the M with little or no effort into recovery.

Others are like myself. Apologizing means owning your A. It's admitting to yourself and others that your A was nobodys fault but your own. It feels better to lay part of the blame on your spouse. Some spouses lay more blame than others. It's a hurtful step for the FWS to bear this burden. It's sad that the BS must carry it once again after all they have been through.

I apologized to my W immediately. And I was truelly sorry for what I had done. But it was some months before I understood what it was I was sorry for. At first I was sorry that she was hurting the way she was while feeling almost justified for having my A. After I got to the point where I realized I must own the A to move on, I apologized again. This time for the right reason.