I don't know how to do a link to my other post that explains the background of my situation. It's called "What the @*&% is Bam-Bam up to now??"

Edited to add link (did it work?):
link

My lawyer called me this afternoon and said that WH wants to "make some changes" to the temporary custody/visitation plan that we had agreed to verbally two weeks ago - that he helped plan. The lawyer said that WH told her he would call me.

He has had these papers for a week and a half. We spoke for quite some time about it a couple days ago. I even asked him if he was okay with the terms. He agreed then, too! Now he wants to make some changes! I don't know if he has seen a lawyer of his own. He has been pleading lack of money and says he can't afford one. I do know he spends time with MOW on Wednesday nights (last night), so maybe she had some input for him (gag).

In the agreement I have specified that I want NC between MOW and my children for 90 days (the most I could get, according to my lawyer), no overnights with MOW present for 90 days after that. He is supposed to have the children every other weekend, and Thursday nights on the off-weekend weeks. He works long hours, but I'm sure part of what he wants is to have the children more often (to cut down the amount of future child support).

Since he has been gone (2.5 months), he has seen the children in person maybe once a week. Most weeks he does not call them at all. Other weeks he calls them once.

The state where I live is very lenient in letting children be around a WSs OP, so I'm a little afraid to go to court. However, it could takes months to get a court date, which could work in my favor to keep her and the kids apart. Because WH and I do not have any sort of signed agreement, I might be able to insist that he not take them overnight.

My question is this: How should I let him know that I am firm in my conditions without love busting or ruining my Plan A? I want to make sure he knows that I am still interested in saving our marriage (even though he is adamant that he is not), but I am firm in keeping the children away from MOW!!!!! She is an adulteress who left her own child and husband - why would I trust her around my children??

Do WSs usually become even more devious and cruel as a separation continues? It seems like he is actively trying to destroy me at times. Is this still following the fogged-out alien script?

Please help me!! And thanks in advance for your advice.

Pebbles, you need to tell him that you are absolutely firm in your conviction that your children are not exposed to the HB [ho-bag]. Just be very civil and polite about it, but be FIRM and straightforward.

Peb

I agree with ML. You just say you liked the original terms...that's why you agreed to them.
H

Pebbles - Listen to Melody. She is an expert. She saved me from letting my WH come home while he was still with OW.

You are very new in this. Things are likely to change for the better soon. Right now you need to PROTECT your children and your family, and finances. When WS's are in the throes of an A, they are just like addicts.

Talk to your WH sweetly, and be prepared for him to try to bait you into an argument. When he starts his fog talk, just let him know that you are following the advice of your attorney, and protecting your family. He will probably be furious, but continue talking to him calmly. Just pretend he is a heroin addict.

P.S. don't use the term ho-bag, tho! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yep, Mel, that would probably be an LB. I used to call my OW a ditch wh*re, but got over that.

Would "skank-ho" be better? Okay, I'll try to behave. I won't call her any kind of ho, not out loud anyway. I'll call her "John's wife" (but with OWH's first name, LOL), as recommended to me by Bob Pure and Gimble. That sure tells it like it is (although the "ho" variations are quite appropriate, too).

I will stand up for my terms. I'm just afraid that if we end up in court things won't end up so much in my favor. But, again, it would be some time before we could get a court date.

Any suggestions on how I can fit "still wanting to work things out if you end your A" into the upcoming conversation?

I can assure you I won't get into an argument with him. I've become quite good at staying calm and relatively upbeat and using reverse babble.

I can scream here, though, right??? Aaaaaagh!!!!!

Yep Pebbles - come here and scream. But be very, very calm and sweet to your husband. Just let him know that you intend to protect your family. I wouldn't even mention your relationship with him. I think this thing will be over soon.

Yes, maybe another time would be best to mention the R. All of you seem to understand all of this so well. When will it make sense to me????

As my granny would say, from your lips to God's ear!

Good advice, believer! So good to see you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Peb

My greatest fear was that I would lose my family. The stuff I could live without but I couldn't survive w/o them. I think most of us are that way. The fog can keep us from seeing what really matters and when the BS makes a firm stand it can be a real eye opener for the WS.
H

If I were in your shoes, I would utterly refuse to sign anything that was not inclusive of my terms. If you don't want OW in your children's life....don't sign. Make him sue you for divorce the hard way.

I think as a parent you have the absolute right to insist that your children be exposed to the moral values that YOU believe in. Just because WH has gone morally bankrupt doesn't mean you have to stand idly by and allow him to likewise impoverish your little people.

I'm not entirely sure that I'd be doing a Plan A with him at this time anyhow. That's just me though. So, I hesitate to advise you on that.

For his part, it must look like he's getting the amicable divorce that he initially wanted. So, if you're going to give him a divorce without initiating a Plan B, why not have it on your terms?

I hope this is what is going through WH's mind. He says he misses the kids, but he has only called them twice since he left 2.5 months ago and has only seen them once a week. He was a good father before and spent a lot of time with the kids, up until about 3-4 months before he left.

WH seems to be in the deepest fog there could be. He has actually told me that MOW has nothing to do with me and is none of my business, even though he wants her to be around our kids (I know, it's the fog talking).

Well, it has been 3 days and WH still hasn't contacted me about what changes he wants in the temporary visitation/custody agreement. I decided I would wait until he contacted me, instead of me calling him.

This was supposed to be his first weekend to have the children, starting tonight (Sat.) after he gets off work.

I wonder if he is just going to show up here at 6 p.m. and expect them to be ready to go to his place. They will not be going. I am going to tell him that without a signed agreement he will need to visit the children at my house, because I can't be sure that MOW will be kept away from the children if he takes them anywhere. I spoke to my lawyer on Friday and she said that I was within my rights to do this, until an agreement is signed. Also, if he takes the children anywhere and refuses to return them to me I would have no grounds to get them back without a signed agreement! Scary!!

If he won't agree to the terms as they were when he verbally agreed to them two weeks ago, I'll call my lawyer Monday to set up a court date. She told me that before we can get a court date we will need to see a mediator, and mediators are backed up for months here. She said we might not get a court date until September! In that case, visitation would be on my terms until then. Hmmm, that would be even longer than the 90-day no-contact-with-MOW clause stipulated in our original agreement. An interesting consideration.

Ladyjane, I am holding off on serving the divorce papers. I was only filing because I want to be sure to have financial protection and defined custody/visitation. If I can get those things without serving the divorce papers, then I am in no hurry.

Everyone, why do you think he is taking so long to contact me about this? Cowardice? Mind game? Busy having too much fun with MOW?

Aaaaagh!!!!

Fence-sitting IMHO

Wanting to get his way but have you make all the hard decisions for him. Wait him out. Sounds like you've got time and the law on your side anyway.

"Everyone, why do you think he is taking so long to contact me about this? Cowardice? Mind game? Busy having too much fun with MOW? "

He's probably waiting for her to tell him what to say. That's what mine did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Either I've done a big thing to break WH out of his fog or I have ruined everything. Either way, something big has happened!

WH showed up at 6 p.m. tonight to pick up the kids for the weekend (even though he had not signed the agreement). I acted surprised when I answered the door. He wanted to argue and discuss the situation in front of the children again, so I got him to go out in the back yard with me (so just the neighbors could hear <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ).

When I told him that I would not allow the children to spend the weekend with him at his place without a signed agreement, he was maaaaaaddd!. He accused me of being a harda$$ and said he should go ahead and sue for 50/50 custody, make me sell the house, and "who cares about how the kids feel" (sarcastic). He accused me of doing all this to punish him and that it was my fault that he hadn't visited the kids much since he left us. I did not become angry, argue - or even reply to his threat.

I just told him that without a signed agreement I did not feel sure that the children would not be exposed to ****'s wife (the MOW). He gave me a big sob story about how he had worked so hard this week to get a room ready for the kids, bought a bed, etc., and that he had promised me it would only be him and the kids, no MOW. He also accused me of playing mind games (look who's talking). I replied (very calmly, I might add) that the way he was now I couldn't be sure that I could trust what he was telling me, even though I wanted to trust him because I always had in the past.

He also said he had every right to take the kids whenever he wanted to and that I listened to my lawyer too much. After I told him my lawyer said it was within my rights to wait until the agreement was signed to let him take the kids, I got another good alienism to add to my list: "Just because the lawyer says it doesn't mean it's legal."

I asked him about the changes he wanted to make in the agreement. He said he didn't like "some of the language," but wouldn't really specify what he wanted changed. I asked why he had waited so long to make changes. He said he had to wait for a "professional" to see it. He said he plans to make the changes Monday and fax it back to my lawyer.

This is getting long, but here is how it worked out tonight: I told him that he could come over and see the children whenever he wanted to, as long as it was compatible with their/my schedule. I told him he was welcome to spend the evening with the children here at the house. He then asked to take them out to dinner. I told him he could go get dinner for the kids and eat here with them, that I would even stay in the other room if he wanted to spend time alone with them. I wouldn't really have minded if he took them to dinner, but because he was angry I didn't want to take the chance that he might not bring them back. I don't think he'd really keep them - but what do I know????

He went out to get dinner - and even asked me what I wanted him to bring me. We all ate together at the table. The children did not warm up to him at first. I started conversations about school, etc. so they would talk to him. Still I am trying to help him and the kids interact. I wonder if he notices or appreciates my efforts at all.

A friend sent me some flowers earlier in the day, which we had to move off the dinner table. When I moved them back later (after I had been in another room for a while), I could tell someone had read the card that came with them. The card was innocent, but quite ambiguous in meaning to someone who didn't know the story behind it. I wonder what he thought?

Aside to Bob Pure: If you read this at all...I was wearing my wedding ring. I have no idea if he noticed.

My daughter and I went on an out-of-town field trip yesterday. On the spur of the moment I bought him a travel mug with a picture of where we had been. I never seriously intended to give it to him, but just to see what would happen I told him I got him a mug. He said jokingly, "Are you going to throw it at me?" He didn't really look at it or thank me. After he left, I noticed that he had taken it with him, though.

I went to the master bedroom and watched T.V. for a while. WH watched cartoons with the kids in the family room (their ritual before bedtime). WH left about 10 minutes before their bedtime without saying anything at all to me. All I heard was my son locking the door behind WH as he left.

So, did I handle this the right way for Plan A - or did I blow it big time? Comments?????? Advice???? 2x4s??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Way to go Pebbles!

Good job.

You really set your boundaries well.

The only thing you might have done a bit differently is to let the kids figure out for themselves how to interact with him. There is no reason that they have to like him or talk to him. He is due basic respect of a father, but that is all. Next time, you might want to just let the conversation between kids and father take its natural course instead of drawing everyone in. He will eventually see that he is damaging his relationship with them.

You did good.

Gimble

Pebbles. I think that was a great Plan A. I really like Gimble's comment about the kids though. I've been encouraging mine to interact with WW.

Thanks, Gimble and Sleepless. It helps to know you approve of how I handled it - even though I feel like WH hates me now. It was so hard, partly because it is really the first time in the 22 years that I have known him that WH has raised his voice to me. I just worry what he might be planning to do next. I am proud of myself for not arguing with WH. He certainly provided as much bait as he could.

Interesting point, and well taken. It's the teacher in me, I guess. It just breaks my heart to see kids in emotional pain and feeling awkward, especially such good, loving kids. And, God help me, I still love WH and want our children to love him. I suppose he really shouldn't be shielded from the pain he is causing them (and me for that matter).

All comments and advice, even 2x4s, are appreciated. Hey, what's being whacked upside the head with a 2x4 when you've had your heart torn out of your chest with someone's bare hands (ooh, lovely mental picture <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ). I'm getting goofy now, off to bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />