He has been over here before when I've spent some time in the other room. Maybe he'd use the computer then, but I doubt it. For some reason, he doesn't trust me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Thanks, Sleepless, I'll keep the option open.

Very cool that the community is behind you. Actions have consequences as he's finding out. It's going to be pretty hard for him to justify his actions with almost NOBODY'S support.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Sleepless, hopefully the consequence of losing business will counteract his enabling parents and coworkers. I hope so.

Unexpected Visit:
Today WH showed up at the front door unannounced, his hands full of pool supplies. He didn't mention anything about coming over today when we had our lovely conversation last night. I tried some of Orchid's reverse babble. Here's how it went:

Me (with confused look): Oh, hi, WH. I wasn't expecting you.
WH: I always come over on Sunday.
Me: You do come over some Sundays, like today, sometimes other days.

WH: I tried to call several times today, but there was no answer. Where were you?
Me: No answer? Not home.
WH: Where did you go?
Me: Oh...(shrug).

**He could have left a message or called me on my cell phone. It's not like we just sit around all day just in case he wants to play family.***

He did some chores in the back yard and garage. I busied myself with schoolwork and chores inside. He came inside to talk to DD. She didn't have much to say. DS was out with friends. WH seemed disappointed.

There was no mention of our conversation last night. I was pleasant and friendly. He said the chocolate cake I was baking smelled good. I thanked him for the chores he did. When he left, he hugged DD and told her he loved her. She stiffened up and said, "Good-bye." He laughed. The whole visit lasted about an hour and a half.

Edited to add:
Kicking self moment: WH asked me how the kids were and I said "fine." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Conditioned response. I wish I had thought of something better to say.

Awkward WH/DD moment: DD stayed in her room for most of WH's visit. He went to talk to her in her room. I overhead him say, "Okay. Well, maybe you'll feel like talking to me later."

I haven't called my BIL and SIL yet. I haven't had a moment to myself. I'll have to sit in my closet after the kids go to bed (that's the only place they can't overhear me on the phone). Or maybe I'll go out in the car in the garage later (that's my other private phone call place). Ah, the glamorous life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I squashed down the remaining shreds of my dignity and called my sister-in-law tonight - she's the one with the money. She was absolutely flabbergasted that WH was refusing to support us financially. Apparently WH has been telling his family, the few times that he has spoken to them, that he would always take care of us, although he had complained to his brother that it was costing him more than he could afford to support us (the very small amount that he was giving us before he cut us off).

Poor guy, living on three times the salary I'm making - while I'm supporting three people and he is supporting only his new lifestyle and affair. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Apparently WH was complaining about supporting us even before the custody/visitation problems came up, so maybe he used my refusal to let him take the kids for the weekend as a convenient excuse to cut us off, although I'm sure he was angry about not taking the kids, too.

I told my SIL that we weren't desperate yet, but might be soon. My SIL said that she would definitely help us out, if it became necessary. She was very upset when I told her the credit card story and that I was going to apply for low-income health insurance. She said she would talk to her husband (WH's brother) and see if they could talk some sense into WH. She said more than once, "This just doesn't seem like him!" Oh yeah, I know that feeling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Of course, WH will probably find a way to make it all my fault (even though he has said nothing bad about me to his family, yet). I hope BIL and SIL can see through the fogese.

I told her that I still thought, since WH wasn't being himself, that maybe this whole situation was an aberration of character, that maybe a divorce could be avoided. She said, "Oh no, you're getting a divorce. You can count on that." She and BIL have spoken to WH on a couple of occasions about his intentions, and she was adamant that WH is positive he wants a divorce - and that he seems so happy with his new love. I know, it's hearsay, but depressing nonetheless, to hear that WH has been so sure from the beginning - and seems more sure now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Again I am reminded of WH's poor-me whine when he said, "It's not fair that I'm the one who has to give up everything!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Poor baby! Here I am living the high life while he is suffering so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So, what is your impression of all the latest developments? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> And, please, somebody remind me why I even want him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I'm starting to wonder.

Hi, Pebbles.

Quote:
==================================
She said, "Oh no, you're getting a divorce. You can count on that.
==================================

Just because he convinced sister in law that he is getting a divorce doesn't make it true.

I know that phone call must have been hard for you. I think that you did good.

It is interesting that he is complaining about the costs, it is really going to hurt if the divorce goes through. He will have his legal responsibility to you and the kids, and other woman will be demanding more as well.

Pebbles, the chances are that the other woman won't divorce, and even if she does, by the time all this has settled out, it is doubtful that they will still want each other. Most affairs end long before that point.

If nothing else, statistics are on your side right now, as are the kind folks here of course :-)

The latest developments are just the process in action. Don't waste your time obsessing over anything that has transpired. Do your best to take it in stride. Your turn will come.

Quote:
===================================
... please, somebody remind me why I even want him. ...
===================================

I have no idea :-) You said you did, so we are trying to help you win him back, and recover your marriage.

In all seriousness, it is your decision. By all rights, you can kick him to the curb. You have earned the right to dump him. He is in an affair. That disqualifies him as a husband, and in many aspects, as a father.

If you decide to keep him, then with the right plan, it is possible to win him back, and even have a good marriage, but there are no guarantees.

I think that you will find that the children will sway you in the direction of recovery. It is probably much harder to start over, with children in the picture, than working toward a resolution of the problem.

Regardless, it is still your decision.

All the best,
Gimble

I've had a hot bath, some hot tea, and I've done my Ujjayi breathing. I'm feeling much more calm now. You'd be surprised how calm I am when I talk to WH, considering how I vent here.

I just noticed this is the three-month anniversary of D-day and WH leaving. Blaaah. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

LOL, Gimble, was that me who said I wanted him back?? I guess it was. Humiliation has a way of making me forget, which is probably WH's intention.

I just remembered, SIL said that she and BIL had not spoken to WH since right after Easter. So, they may not know as much as I assumed they did. It seems WH has not been in as much contact with his family as I thought he was.

Thank you. Yes, it was hard for me. I don't like to beg or be needy. Maybe this is God's way of teaching me that I was too proud.

SIL said this too. The amount of money he was giving us before he cut us off was only about 1/2 of what he'll have to pay in child and spousal support. Plus, he'll have to pay for health insurance for all three of us.

I forgot until just now: During our conversation last night about financial support, WH said, "I guess we'll just have to get together and figure out a support plan" (after, of course, I give in to his visitation demands). Little does he know that he won't have any say in how much he has to pay. It sounds like he's thinking we'll compromise on an amount.

It just scares me that I know of several relationships in my non-internet/real life where affair couples have married. One of the affair couples that married was one of WH's brothers and his second wife. I do appreciate the kind folks here. This is the only place I can go where people actually "get it" and understand what is going on and how I am feeling.

My turn will come, mmmwaahaahaahaa (that's an evil laugh). I like the sound of that. I'll try to use my power for good, not evil.

I am hoping that tomorrow will be a drama-free day. I'd like to take a day off of worrying about WH and the attendant problems. I'm just going to focus on work, my kids, my dogs, and finding a good book to read.

Gimble, for all the help and encouragement you offer me and the other struggling BSs here, I hope your life is richly blessed. I thank you for taking the time to reply so often to my long, troubled posts.

Catching up now, Pebs.

As you stated, my earlier advice was to get the legal stuff finalized prior to Plan B.

That's when I thought the legal stuff was imminent and you probably shouldn't provide any motivation to him to NOT settle the legal stuff.

Since then, he's resisted signing and has further jeopardized your financial status. How much worse can it get, i.e., if you went to Plan B now, what could he do to lessen his cooperation?

Maybe Plan B should be imminent.

Even if you're not ready for it, I suggest you start writing your letter. Write it knowing you're going to send a copy to his family and to the OW. Write it so anybody reading it will conclude you've tried your best so far and you can do no more. Plan on having your attorney read it prior to sending to make sure you're not jeopardizing anything and are maximizing any consideration a divorce judge may give it in the future.

Make sense?

Comments from others?

WAT

Hi, WAT.

I think that Plan B should be postponed until a settlement has been reached - unless that process is going to drag out for months.

My read on her husband and their situation, is that he would become even more resistant to taking care of his obligations to his family. It seems to me that he will do so almost to the point of destructive behavior. He seems to have major anger issues, just under the surface. I recommend caution. You asked :-)

Gimble

Compass mount (Gimble) - very valid thoughts.

I don't pretend to know exactly when Plan B should be entered - just that Pebs has already laid the good Plan A groundwork for it. Hate to see the opportunity squandered.

I too would expect him to become more resistant. Pebs would have to proceed with the filing and have legal action taken. My thought was that this already appears to be the sitch and Pebs reasonably cannot keep up the good Plan A effort much longer.

WAT

Hi, WAT.

Quote:
===============================
My thought was that this already appears to be the sitch and Pebs reasonably cannot keep up the good Plan A effort much longer.
===============================

I agree, but I am hoping that he will sign off on this latest round of negotiations, and if not, that her brother in law will step up with some support. Plan A is tough, but Plan B with no immediately realistic means of support would be tougher.

There is my nickel's worth :-)

Compass mount, aye ....
:-)
Gimble

Monohull stove mount - yep.

But it wouldn't hurt for her to get started on that Plan B letter, huh? Just writing Plan B letters seems to be constructive for BSs.

WAT

I completely agree with writing the letter, and initial contingency planning , WAT.

Gimble

You're doing great and you've got WAT and Gimble helping! How lucky are you?

Exposure. Yeah that's tough for him. What goes around comes around <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

SIL AND BIL help. Let them help. It's for your kids not you. Swallow your pride. You help the next person who needs it. That's how this works. What goes around comes around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Oh No, you're getting a divorce"

My MIL dropped the same line on me. Tell her politely that you want to see if your WH comes to his senses. Thank you for your concern, but keep praying for our family who needs a normal father. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Pebbles,

I read your thread yesterday (once I got through the first few posts I was hooked) and thought about you last night. I want to share a little something...

My dad left when I was 12. At the time, my mother told me that she had kicked him out but never had a bad word to say about him. That's right - even when he would call late Thursday to tell her that he wasn't coming to get us for the weekend, even when he made her the bad guy by telling us that he couldn't afford Christmas presents because our mother was taking all his money, even when he would suggest she was a prostitute... He was so mean and hurtful, yet she was always as nice as possible.

I have since found out that he'd been with another woman for two years before she kicked him out, and they married a few years later (the OW passed away in December, that's when I found out how long they'd been together).

I have to tell you that I couldn't understand why my mom was so nice to him back then. She wouldn't go out of her way like you have, but she never got unpleasant with him around us.

I realize now that she had simply forgiven him and that there were other things that she needed to focus on. I really respect her for that. I took me a lot longer to get over my anger for him leaving.

I know that their break up left emotional scars on me. I have a fear of abandonment and a fear that my future-husband might cheat on me. I'm working on these.

What I want you to know by telling you this is that your kids will be okay. Sure they'll have some issues, same as I do, but they will grow up and know that you did the right thing. You will be setting an example for your kids in that cheating is not tolerated. They will have a lot of respect for you for the things that you're doing now to make sure that they're taken care of.

I think that you're a very strong woman, and if the aliens have taken permanent residence in your husbands head, at least you know you did all you can. I'm sure that your kids will notice that.

{{Pebbles}}

Cat

Cat, thank you so much for saying this. That is what I want my children to understand, I protected them and I did all I could, and what I did I did with integrity. I want to be able to look at my children and not be ashamed. If the alien ever comes to his senses, I doubt he will be able to look at our children and not be ashamed of his actions.

I think you are doing great. Stay strong.

I just found out today that my WH continues to have contact with OW. My plan B is right around the corner. I'm waiting for OWH to contact a lawyer so he can get his ducks in a row. Mine are lined up and ready to march. THIS S_CKS!!!!

WHY DON"T THEY GET IT!!!?????

Sleepless, I told my SIL what you told your MIL when she was sure you'd be getting a divorce, "I'm hoping he'll come to his senses." And I really hope he does.

Gimble, I don't know where all this anger is coming from! I have come to the conclusion that he is a major conflict avoider. Did he stuff so much anger down inside over the years that it's all coming out now? I really don't have a clue why he is so angry. It makes me worry that he has more cruelity planned for me that I'm not prepared for. Why is he so angry???????

Gimble and WAT, I have the same conflict with starting Plan B, and you both have good points. As you both recommended, I will get started on the Plan B letter.

What happened today - more confusion and mixed messages - and my lawyer yelled at WH!!

I have a feeling this is going to be another loooong post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I got a fax today with WH's latest revisions to the visitation/custody agreement. He wanted some words changed around in one paragraph (that didn't change the meaning at all). He also wanted a paragraph added that stated he "intends to pursue a divorce as soon as possible and intends to divide all assets, including the house, as soon as possible." My lawyer recommended I approve those changes. She said that stating he "intends" to do something, even if I sign it, does not mean anything legally, as in "I intend to make a million dollars and retire to Maui."

She told me she called him and practically yelled at him! She said she feels like he's "jacking us around" and delaying the proceedings, when he says he is the one who wants everything done quickly. She also was angry with him for repeatedly revising one or two minor things and having her office retype the whole agreement. She said she told him he has 10 days to sign the current agreement - or we go to court. She said he "sounded" like he would sign. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Edited to add: My lawyer said, "What is the matter with this guy? The elevator is not going all the way to the top floor!"

Oh, this is really rich: The lawyer said he also wanted to include a stipulation that he wouldn't be required to pay child/spousal support until the division of assets had been finalized. She told him that there was no way she would include that in the agreement. What's most strange to me is he hasn't asked to change anything else about actual visitation or custody. Huh?????

The lawyer asked me if he had been paying the mortgage, because he told her had been. I told her that the bank records would show that I had deposited the mortgage money for the past two months. Now I know why he gave me a check last month right after I paid the mortgage, he wanted to get credit for paying it. But, I put the check he gave me in my own account, not the account the mortgage is taken out of.

Okay, that's not all. It was an eventful day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> When I got home, WH had left a message for me to call him, right away, at his parents' house. He is watching the house for his parents while they are away at a funeral. I called him and said, "Hi, it's me." He said, in a very cheerful, old-H (not alien) voice, "Hi, Me! Wow, you called back quickly. How are you?" We chatted for a while, no mention of the agreement. His voice had the old sweetness in it, like when he used to not hate me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I asked him why he had called. He said he wanted to arrange a time on Sunday to come over and work in the yard again. Now, why did he need me to call him today, right away, for that?? He could have called any day this week, and usually calls only one or two days before he wants to come over. He didn't mention visiting the kids, except to ask how DD is doing. I said, "As well as can be expected." At least I didn't say "fine" this time.

What the heck is he up to now?????? What is with all the anger, the delaying, and the weird phone call with the sweetness in his voice? What is going on??????? Do you think he has some horrible plan he is getting ready to unleash on me????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I know I sound like a basket case here, but I was very calm and collected on the phone with WH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Confused, that does suck! About the only thing my WH has been honest about is that he is still in contact (close, intimate contact) with MOW. Geez, just when it seems like life couldn't suck any more, it gets a little buck suckier. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I'm so upset that I'm not even making the word "sucks" look less offensive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Another weird thing (at least to me): I always contact WH on his cell phone. He hasn't given out his land-line number to anyone I know of, including his family (but I know it because I snooped <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). Why would he want to make sure that I know he is at his parents' house? He said I should call him there, when his cell phone would have worked just as well. In fact, he mentioned more than once that he was there. Maybe it doesn't mean anything (I'm an over-analyzer), but maybe it does - but what would it mean???
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'm in a cynical mood tonight.

WH calls you and leaves message to call immediately.

Just small talk during convo.

Tells you more than once to NOT call his cell.

What is OW thinking about WH away at his parents? Did she think that he was going to your place for the weekend? Did she keep his cellphone as proof of NC? Does she have his cell password for him to prove something to her?

I would call his phone. Hey, you're under a lot of stress, and could be forgetful because of it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> . I would be prepared for her to answer (I'm sorry, I must have dialled the wrong number, repeat as many times as necessary). I would also be prepared to leave a message that left room for a lot of assumptions if OW received it, but would get past your WH if he received it.

I'd ask Gimble and WAT for ideas.

Take care

Hi, Pebbles.

Quote:
====================================
Gimble, I don't know where all this anger is coming from! I have come to the conclusion that he is a major conflict avoider. Did he stuff so much anger down inside over the years that it's all coming out now? I really don't have a clue why he is so angry. It makes me worry that he has more cruelity planned for me that I'm not prepared for. Why is he so angry???????
====================================

Here is what I suspect. You tell me if I am off. My guess is that he feels over utilized and under appreciated, for a long, long time. I would definitely consider that 'stuffing'. That is a hard thing for a man. In general, a man would have a hard time saying "I need you to notice my hard work and knowledge better than you do", but he would want you to, never the less.

Add to the above; projected anger because he feels guilty, anger from feeling like he is trapped and can't pursue his new 'interest' in the way he wants to, and basic anger at himself for being in this mess to begin with.

Don't get excited about this next statement. I am wondering just how fixated he really is on the other woman. I suspect it may not be as strong as initially suspected. I am suspecting that she is more of a convenience right now. Tell me what you think about that, Pebbles. Not wishful thinking, but how connected to her do you think he really is?

I am glad that your lawyer is getting testy with him. His waffling on details is beginning to sound like he has been reading a bad website on "how to be obnoxious with your wife's lawyer". Again, more anger coming out.

Quote:
====================================
The lawyer said he also wanted to include a stipulation that he wouldn't be required to pay child/spousal support until the division of assets had been finalized. She told him that there was no way she would include that in the agreement. What's most strange to me is he hasn't asked to change anything else about actual visitation or custody. Huh?????
====================================

Again, his focus is still not on the children, rather on trying to blackmail you to move forward on the divorce. He is being coached big time, but I can't figure if it is the other woman or his lawyer.

Has your lawyer made any comments about the reputation of his lawyer? Do you know what other woman's background is?

Quote:
=====================================
Now, why did he need me to call him today, right away, for that??
=====================================

Possibly to find out how you are handling his frontal assaults.

On the calls, unless you suspect an emergency, don't be so quick to call him back. Be busy, whether or not you are busy :-) try not to be so available.

Good for you on the comments about the kids.

Quote:
====================================
Do you think he has some horrible plan he is getting ready to unleash on me?????
====================================

He isn't all powerful, and he is subject to the same laws of physics and laws of order that you and I are, so I wouldn't live in fear of him or what he can do.

As rough as all this is on you, the sun will still rise tomorrow, and life will continue. No matter what he does, you are prepared to handle it. You have learned a lot in a short period of time, and believe it or not, your skill set for handling the things he has been barraging you with, has greatly improved.

I think you are an awesome lady, Pebbles.

God bless,
Gimble