Very good points, StillHere. He did sound surprised that I agreed to let him take the kids to dinner, etc. I'll call the lawyer to see if he's signed the papers and if he intends to do so. If he hasn't signed them by Wednesday, maybe I'll have to tell him I was sure he would have signed by then, but since he hasn't, the children will not be able to go out with him alone.

I wonder what his delay is in signing the agreement???? It would guarantee he would get to have his kids, alone, overnight, just without MOW for 90 days. Of course, he still thinks he is the one who is having to 'give up everything.'<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

WH would be very angry (but what else is new<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />). Unfortunately, the lawyer told me that once the papers are signed the children are required by law to go with WH, unless he says they don't have to. I could be held in contempt of the order if I don't release the children to him on his visitation days.

That is what worries me. Part of me wants to keep up my fantasy that WH is just trying to be with his kids and be a good dad, and maybe even do something nice for me. Reality is seeping in to tell me that he wants to replace me with MOW, in his life and the children's, to make his new life legitimate (gag).

Hopefully Plan B will protect the love that I have left for him. He sure is doing his best to snuff it out. Someday he'll have to realize what a mess he's made (any sane person would, wouldn't they?), but how long will it take? He seems to be deeply entrenched in his new reality.

Another question about e-mail contact regarding the kids during Plan B: The only e-mail address WH has right now is very offensive to me. It is a combination of her first name and his first name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Do I have to put up with receiving and sending e-mails to that address, or could I somehow ask him to get a new one? Maybe a free hotmail address?

The e-mail address gets me like a knife twisting in my heart. I found out about it by accident after he left, while I was checking my car insurance information on line. Through some snooping, I found out that e-mail address has been active for at least a year. So the affair, if it hadn't already started by then, started soon after, I'm sure. WH will only admit to a PA of one year, although he says he has known MOW 'for years' through friends at work, so the EA could have been going on for much, much longer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

It's things like the e-mail address that make me think his affair is so deeply entrenched that there is not much hope for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Is he the deluded one in the fog, or am I??

I feeling pretty depressed right now. It's hard for me to see anything promising about anything that has happened between us since he left. If any of you can remind me of anything, or find something promising that has happened, I'd love to read it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Here is another version of my Plan B letter. I used parts from several letters I've seen here, and added a few ideas of my own. Many thanks to the MBers I have plagarized. I'm afraid it may be a bit choppy and repetitious, and it needs to flow better, but it's late and I'm sooo tired. I would appreciate your suggestions.

My Dear ****,

Everything I have said to you about how much I love you and the hope I have for the restoration of our family has been true. Much has happened recently, but even today I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship and provide a healthy home for our children.

I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with *** possible. I know I put emphasis on the wrong things. I focused too much on the children, my job, and my own interests. I neglected to take care of you and appreciate you in the way you deserve, and for this I am truly sorry. I am willing to avoid the mistakes I have made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. I have already shown a willingness to change. You can help me, and together we can build a new and better marriage that will be a solid foundation for our children, and a source of joy for the two of us. We owe it to our family to try.

You may not know what I have endured because of your decision to separate and because of your relationship with ***. I know that the difficult situation we are in now is just a symptom of the problems that already existed in our marriage, and that we both carry a share of the blame for that. Still, nothing is so wrong that it cannot be fixed if we both work together.

It has become too painful for me to continue to see or talk to you while you continue your relationship with ***. I love you so much, but that love is being terribly damaged by the pain of knowing you are with someone else. Thus, I am separating from you in order to protect myself from further pain until you are ready to commit to rebuilding our family.

Until you decide to recommit to our marriage and family, please do not communicate with me directly. If you need to communicate with me regarding legal matters, please contact (my lawyer). If you wish to communicate regarding the children, please email me at (e-mail address).

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way, but please remember at every moment that I would much rather rebuild our marriage. The children and I are the ones who can help you learn to be truly happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent part of you, and we have so many good memories to carry us through the hard times ahead. I want us to be able to meet each other’s needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy.

I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend. Forever. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you, then we can talk about what it will take to shape a secure future for our family, one in which we will never need to separate like this again.

With my love,
Pebbles

Well, there's my hodge-podge Plan B letter. Please let me know what can be done to fix it up. Thank you!

Consider throwing in some "emergency" caveat, e.g., "Until you decide to recommit to our marriage and family, please do not communicate with me directly unless there is a real emergency involving your or the children's safety."

About the e-mail address, I suggest you grin and bear it. Try to see it as confirmation of his alien abduction or signifying the adolescent behavior - how sophomoric, a combination of their first names.

But I really understand your nausea about that simple thing. Everytime I have to send an e-mail to my XW or address paper mail to her (for items concerning our surviving son), I have to type or write her new last name - the last name of my former friend and pallbearer for my deceased son. But then I remember that she WASN'T having an affair. It was just serendipity that she married the guy she wasn't having an affair with just 5 months after our divorce. And the best kicker - why get married when being married didn't mean anything? Thanks. Proof still that the Mothership is real.

WAT

What is hopeful about this situation is that IF he had kown her for years (and very likely from your research...) then why hadn't he left before? Why? Because you had given him a big chunk of EN's he needed. If he was able to get it all from MOW then he would have left sooner.

I predict what will happen is that once Plan B begins the MOW will be failing in trying to keep up with WH's EN's and going through a D...and allthe life issues...the fantasay bubble will burst.

I am concerned about your DD. WH didn't just leave you...he left her too. She is feeling the same betrayal you are feeling. Can you include in the visitation paper work to allow her the CHOICE of whether she wants to visit with WH or not?

The thing I would change about the Plan B letter is to be VERY clear what a recommitment would look like...a path home...NC with MOW, full accountability of time and disclosure of the A, stop the D paperwork, etc...what are the VERY practical terms you would need to see before you would consider ending Plan B?

I gave my FWH a list of things to do. His comment was, "Why are you forcing me to do this." My answer? "I have no control over what you do, you either choose to do this or not, or somewhere in between, then it is up to me to deal with what is happening. I wrote this letter to expalin I can't put up with this behavior any longer, and what I would need to begin to rebuild this M...the choice is up to you."

I actually gave my H a 5 point list. Not appropriate for most WS's, but in my case, with a H who works very well with lists, very appropriate.

When I read PBL I get a little confused about what the BS needs for recovery, and I think that needs to be spelled out a bit clearer...otherwise it's too easy for there to be a false recovery. Once a clear line is drawn about what is needed, then once each item is accomplished the BS and WS are clear about how recovery is proceeding...
My 5 point list?
NC with letter sent
Meet with IC
Talk with Dr. about meds
Accountability of time and money.
Spend more time, attention, and affection with me and kids.

Those last 2 were not as easy to quantify and the hardest hurdles in recovery.

I guess if you could learn anything from my example is to be VERY clear about what you need before recovery begins.

Hi Pebbles, I've been following your thread and it looks like we're both standing at the deep end of the same pool. Let's hold hands and jump together... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WAT and StillHere, thank you for your input on my revised PBL. I will make changes to it tonight and see what you think.

Notso, I have been following your thread, too. That's where I got a large portion of my revised PBL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Thanks! I'm almost ready to jump with you, but you might have to pull me in. I just hope there's water in the pool. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Big News Today!
I got a call from my lawyer this afternoon that WH signed the visitation/custody agreement today!!! She had given him 10 days to sign the agreement or we would take him to court. This was day 8 of the 10. I am so...happy?? I don't really know what feeling I have. Relief? After over two months of WH delaying and trying to make changes, he finally signed it.

The lawyer wants me to come in tomorrow so I can sign the agreement, and so we can plan when I want the divorce papers served (to begin securing financial support). I'll have to start breaking the news to the kids that they'll be spending next Wednesday night with their dad, and that weekend! That will be three overnights next week, a huge change from seeing him once a week - or less. I guess I can't expect that he'll be willing to let them adjust gradually to staying at his place. I'm sure he'll want every overnight from the very first week. I'll have the kids this weekend because of Mother's Day, thankfully.

It looks like things are really happening now. I'd better get my Plan B letter finalized and ready to go.

I was sooooo flattered when I recognized some familiar phrases. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Steal to your heart's content - I love it! Do you have a B-day set yet? Mine is still pending the VP's attempt to dissipate the fog, but will probably be on or before the weekend. I'm going to try and copy my letter by hand today. Best of luck, Pebs, I'm right here with you, and we have an awesome cheering section.

No, not yet. Probably very soon. I need to show my Plan B letter to my lawyer first, to make sure I'm not giving WH any legal ammunition to use against me.

Thank you, and best of luck to you, too! You'll let us know how it goes, right?

Good idea. Thanks. What about little things regarding the children, such as "I'll be 15 minutes late picking them up," etc? Would voicemail be okay for something like that? I might not see an email in time. I want to be prepared for anything that might happen.

Ick. But okay, I'll have to be the mature one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He may even be too embarrassed to use 'their' email address. He doesn't seem to want me to know anything about her.

Ick. It's bad enough that my OP is someone I don't know (at least I don't think I've ever met her). I think it would be even worse if it were someone I knew and had trusted.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. And I'm sure the stress of trying to support WH through a divorce, especially if she starts her own divorce, will be a big dose of reality for the 'happy couple.' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately, that option was not available. We would need to go through a mediator in order for my daughter or son to have their wishes considered, and then have a court date for custody. An appointment for a mediator would not be available until October (according to my lawyer). Court-ordered financial support would not begin until that time as well (custody and support would be handled together at the same court date). Besides, if we went to court, WH would probably be granted more custody and visitation than what he has in the agreement he just signed.

I didn't think of this. Do you have any suggestions as to how I could word it so it sounds important but not controlling, and where would I include it in the letter? Important to me would be NC, some kind of counseling (MC most likely), accountability of time and money, and more time, attention, and affection with me and kids. I just don't want it to sound too controlling or off-putting.

WAT, I changed the communication paragraph in PBL v.2. How is this?

Until you decide to recommit to our marriage and family, please do not communicate with me directly unless there is a real emergency involving your or the children's safety. If you need to communicate with me regarding legal matters, please contact (my lawyer). If you need to communicate regarding the children, please email me at (e-mail address).

I'm still wondering about what to do about the "I can't take the kids this Saturday" or "I'm running late to pick up the kids" kind of situations. Would that be assumed okay for email contact? Text message? Also, according to our custody/visitation agreement, we are supposed to mutually agree on all medications, doctors, etc. (this is basic to all joint custody agreements where I live, apparently). Would I need to contact him by email for those kinds of things?

The closer Plan B gets, the more confused I am. It seems, because of the children, we will need to have some sort of contact.

Edited to add: I'm somewhat surprised that WH signed the agreement. Part of me was expecting him to take it to court, just to make me suffer and/or to try to get his way. I wonder what changed his mind?

What a dork I am. If he hadn't signed it, I would be upset and wondering what to think. Now that he has signed it, I'm upset and wondering what to think. I know, Pebbles, just knock it off and think about your Plan B letter!

Oh, when do you think I should have him served with the divorce papers? ASAP or wait a few days?

About the 15 minutes late type situations - I think you cannot avoid ALL communication. A pristine Plan B with kids is not possible, IMHO. Just minimize the interactions. If and when they have to occur, make your participation very Plan A-like. No cold shoulders, no frowns, no LBs - but no filling ENs, either. This is counterintuitive, so you have to consciously work at it.


I have no experience with this, but my intuition says you should do file and deliver the Plan B letter all in the same motion. I know others will say to delay the Plan B letter for a while after filing.

Either way - here's something I hadn't thought of in your sitch - perhaps you should mention the filing in the Plan B letter, your reasons for doing it, and the fact that it can be reversed when he commits to the family. Otherwise, the Plan B letter and filing may be contradictory. Did you get words in the filing that specify your real intent to salvage the marriage?

WAT

About the emergency situations? I would use a family memeber, a go-between. It would be pretty simple for you to call Mom and "Would you mind calling WH and telling him I'll be 15 minutes late, or I'm on my way." You think she would be OK with that...and you can ask the same of him.

I like your ideas about specifics to add to the PBL. How about adding with a statement like...

You've said you are not interested in saving our M, but if things were to change, and you would like to work on recovering our M there are some things I would need........
I remain hopeful recovery will still happen.

This lights the path back to your door, and the secret knock you will need before you will open it, but it proclaims your door will be tightly shut and locked until he uses the secret knock.

Plan B is VERY scary on this side...and VERY scary the first few weeks.

Plan MANY activities to keep yourself busy. Stay away from phones, email, any way of contacting WH...the addiction to contact him is very strong in the beginning. Don't allow yourself any excuse. Rely on your friends...contact them when the urge arises to break Plan B. Go to movies, where you have to turn off your phone, be creative...

Plan B is FOR YOU...not to sway the heart of the WS. The A has a life of it's own, completely removed from the M. The WS will do what they want... Plan B allows a break, a vacation, from the constant thinking, strategizing, etc...and gives you peace. It allows you to preserve what love you have so the A can run it's course...

Here are the latest revisions to my PBL, taking into account your advice, WAT and StillHere. I may still need to add something to the communication paragraph, but I can't think of what right now - WH was just here and I can't think straight.

My Dear ****,

Everything I have said to you about how much I love you and the hope I have for the restoration of our family has been true. Much has happened recently, but even today I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship and provide a healthy home for our children. It is with a heavy heart that I have filed divorce paperwork. I have done so only to ensure financial support for our children and myself. I still want to be your wife and I have no desire to divorce, and the process can easily be reversed should you decide to recommit to our marriage and our family.

I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with *** possible. I know I put emphasis on the wrong things. I focused too much on the children, my job, and my own interests. I neglected to take care of you and appreciate you in the way you deserve, and for this I am truly sorry. I am willing to avoid the mistakes I have made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. I have already shown a willingness to change; I have been working hard to keep the house clean and organized and my finances better managed. You can help me, and together we can build a new and better marriage that will be a solid foundation for our children, and a source of joy for the two of us. I think we owe it to our family to try.

You may not know what I have endured because of your decision to separate and because of your relationship with ***. I know that the difficult situation we are in now is just a symptom of the problems that already existed in our marriage, and that we both carry a share of the blame for that. Still, nothing is so wrong that it cannot be fixed if we both work together.

It has become too painful for me to continue to see or talk to you while you continue your relationship with ***. I love you so much, but that love is being terribly damaged by the pain of knowing you are with someone else. Thus, I am separating from you in order to protect myself from further pain until you are ready to commit to rebuilding our family.

Until you decide to recommit to our marriage and family, please do not communicate with me directly unless there is an emergency involving your or the children’s health or safety. If you need to communicate regarding legal matters, please contact (my lawyer). If you wish to communicate about routine matters regarding the children, please email me at (e-mail address).

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way, but please remember at every moment that I would much rather rebuild our marriage. The children and I are the ones who can help you learn to be truly happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent part of you, and we have so many good memories to carry us through the hard times ahead. The path back home is simple: cease all contact, permanently, with *** and sincerely commit to rebuilding our marriage and our family. I want us to be able to meet each other’s needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. I know we can build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy.

I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend, too. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you, then we can talk about what it will take to shape a secure future for our family, one in which we will never need to separate like this again.

With all my love,
Pebbles

Well, it's kind of wordy (like me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />). What do you think of this version?

***Plan A Last Gasp***

It looks like I have about one week of Plan A left. My lawyer sent the D paperwork to the court today to file. It should be ready to serve late next week. I guess I'll be putting my all into the final breaths of my Plan A until then. I will need to make the choice between having him served at work (in front of all his affair-enabling buddies) or having the lawyer call him to pick up the papers from her office (who knows how long he'd take to do that, even though he says he's in such a hurry to divorce). What do you think I should do?

WH took the kids out to dinner tonight - and to get me something for Mother's Day, according to our son and some hints from WH. Before they left, he looked around the back yard to check on what kind of work needed to be done (Mr. Fixit). At first he wouldn't look me in the eye, but he did a few times later on and ended up smiling and laughing with me and the kids.

He also put an envelope on the counter with a check in it (the memo on it says it's for his half of the house payment). Our son's orthodontist bill was also in the envelope. I guess I'm supposed to pay it with the check he gave me? WH didn't say anything about the envelope, just put it on the counter without a word.

Any more thoughts or advice for me? Thanks!

I told myself I wouldn't reply to my own posts tonight, but here I am doing it anyway. Oh well, when I talk to myself, at least I know somebody's listening, LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know no one can tell what is going on in WH's mind, but I am going to ask what you think anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> When WH brought the kids back tonight, our daughter had a bag of clothes she had chosen and he had bought while they were out. I thanked him with a smile (although if he were providing financial support she would not be wearing old, tattered clothes in the first place). Our son couldn't find any clothes he wanted, apparently.

The kids also had a bag with a box of some sort in it that they said I couldn't see until Mother's Day. Our son hid it in his room somewhere. WH stayed for a while and chatted with us while the kids watched their pre-bedtime cartoon. He actually initiated conversation with me and smiled at me.

Our next door neighbor knocked on the door to tell me that our dogs had gotten out. While I had the front door open, WH seemed to almost hide from our neighbor as if he didn't want to be seen. He didn't get up to help me get the dogs back in (we have two dogs and it was dark - and he would have helped, before).

Eventually I told the kids it was getting late and they needed to get ready for bed. WH took the hint and said good-bye. I walked him out and closed the door so the kids couldn't hear because I wanted to set up a time to discuss the newly signed visitation schedule. I was very pleasant, and not at all scary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />, but it almost seemed as if he was afraid of me. He leaned against the wall and looked at the ground, wouldn't even look at me. He just kind of mumbled, "Uh, yeah, okay. Bye." He slumped off after that. I didn't press him to set up a definite time.

Maybe he has to have his weekend schedule approved by MOW before he can set up visits. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Hmmm...of course, everything bad in the world is my fault <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, but I didn't know I was terrifying enough to make a grown man cower in fear(?). He is about 7 inches taller and 80 pounds heavier than I am - was he afraid I was going to beat him up? I haven't even used any LBs since the first days after he left.

Humor me, it's the end of my Plan A - interpret the alien behavior, please. All guilt?

Hey, Pebbles, got to run - the lights are going out tonight. I'll let you know tomorrow how the water is...

Good luck, notso! I'm holding my breath for you!

Hi, Pebbles.

Quote:
==================================
... I will need to make the choice between having him served at work (in front of all his affair-enabling buddies) or having the lawyer call him to pick up the papers from her office ...
==================================

I would have him served at work, Especially since exposing his affair, there, is the next order of business.

Quote:
==================================
Humor me, it's the end of my Plan A - interpret the alien behavior, please. All guilt?
==================================

A lot of guilt, and he probably has a nasty of some sort planned, chaired by the puppeteer. I don't want to make you paranoid again, though :-)

I have been keeping up with your progress. You are doing well, Pebbles.

How is your daughter doing with all this. Is she still not talking to her dad?

God bless,
Gimble