Pebbles,

I think IF you had this convo with a WS, it would go as you described. In retrospect is it really worth the effort? What w/b gained by it?

IMHO, the best thing t/d w/b to NOT give the WS infor or any explanation of your actions. As you noted in your previous convo, he wasn't listening anyway.

Use this knowledge to your advantage and pick and choose when you give the WS info. Expecting a WS to understand your 'reasons' for the D or anything else is IMHO too high of an expectation. Wait for the WS to question it. This is hard for a BS t/d but it is the safer and more sane course to take.

Here's my take on your convo.

WS: I got served.

BS: Yes (or a simple nod).

WS: I want a D.

BS: U got it.

WS: No, I wanted to get the D.

BS: U got it.

WS: No you don't understand, I wanted to have you served.

BS: Ooohh....., ok then for dinner I want.

WS: Not dinner, I wanted to D you before you D'd me.

BS: What? I'm sorry you were habbling and I didn't hear what you said, could you please repeat that?

WS: Oh never mind.

BS: Ok.

See the difference? This convo (though foggy) did not require the BS to give info. Notice how the BS was able to make mincemeat of the WS' attempts at having an illogical convo w/the BS. In other words, the BS didn't take no BS from the WS. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. This is when you need all 3.

take care,
L.

Surviving, I know what you mean. Why would a man choose a skanky, serial cheating, married hag over a wife and two beautiful children who love him? The thing is, I don't hate him...yet. Most of the time I'm not even angry (much). Disgusted, hurt, betrayed, confused, used, utterly befuddled...that's how I feel. Maybe the anger comes later?

Orchid, thank you for your input.

The thing is, if my WH stays true to form he'll never question it. He has never brought up anything. The only thing about this whole mess he has brought up on his own is that he wanted to leave (said on D-day, the night he left). If I hadn't asked specifically, he wouldn't even have told me about the affair. If it were up to him, I'd still be waiting for him to make changes to a word here and a word there on the visitation/custody agreement. It took a threatening phone call from my lawyer to finally get him to sign it.

I really like your reverse babble sample, Orchid, it's the one I would like to use, but I don't think it will happen with my WH. He even left a check for me in a place where he knew I wouldn't find it until after he left. I'm not exactly sure why. He was always something of a conflict avoider, but now he seems to have become a Conflict Avoider. Does he think these problems and I will just go away? Did he think I would never find out anything? His excuse has been that he "doesn't want to hurt me any more." His actions would prove otherwise.

I do see your point about him not understanding my explanation anyway, in his WS state. I'm just worried that it will be a conflicting message, being served the D and support papers last week, then receiving my Plan B letter a few days later. What do you think?

Well, he finally called me back, almost 24 hours after I left him a voice mail. I couldn't talk, the kids were nearby. I asked if I could call him back after they go to bed. He asked, "Is this going to be a long conversation?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

In some ways WH seems like the typical WS, but in some ways he seems uniquely bizarre. What will get through to this guy???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I guess my question is this: Should I wait and see if he ever brings it up or should I explain so that I don't send a conflicting message with my Plan B letter? Or maybe I'll be banging my head against a wall either way?

Would it be possible to amend your plan B letter to add one line stating that you had to sue for divorce to ensure that his family would be protected financially. I haven't read your plan B letter yet. I'll have to look it up. And if he gets a little confused, is that a bad thing? I think it would make him think a little that you are not kidding around and will do whatever you need to do to protect your family. IMHO not a bad thing.

Just read your paln B letter you mention why you filed for divorce in it already. I'd leave it at that. If he needs further clarification he'll have to ask.

Thanks, confused. You even took the time to find my Plan B letter! I appreciate your advice.

My dilemma for tonight solved itself. I got a phone call right before the time I had said I would call WH. I asked myself, "Should I talk to someone fun who likes me or call a mean, grouchy old alien who speaks fogese?" Hmmm, tough choice. The phone call didn't end until later than I would have felt comfortable calling WH (he usually goes to bed fairly early). If he tried to call me, I wouldn't know, but he would have gotten a busy signal.

Was it a sign? Maybe. Maybe it was just a phone call.

I know that I need to detach myself from wondering about WH and what he is up to. There are actually days when I am too busy to think about him much, although he is always there at the back of my mind. We have lived in the same town for more than half my life, so there are memories of us everywhere I go. I used to know him so well, I thought. Now I just don't get him at all, it seems.

Pebbles. I think we try so hard to bond with our spouses and block out the bad things they did to us, we only remember the good. It's not healthy not to look at the bad and recognize it.

This is a kind of hijack but our paths are so parallel. My WW called me today. First time since she said she was taking DS8 back to Europe and served my restraining order. She got my response to the restraining order and divorce paperwork today. All she could say what I wanted was "interesting" and she thought we would just go with the plan we had before. Hmmmmm NO! I told her I couldn't really trust her anymore, and hung up the phone quietly. Was it the domestic violence assessment, or anger management classes she didn't like? Don't really know. I think I'm in Plan B. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I sit now wishing she could pull her head out of her butt, take responsibility for her actions. I've hit the point where I'm not sure I want her back. Just DS8. I worry about him.

You take care of your kids. Show them how to set proper boundaries. Show them how to stand up for themselves with honor and compassion. You can control how your WS acts. But you can control how you respond. Do you still have your ring on? I wonder why I do. WS asked if I wanted the engagement ring back. I told her no, it was a gift from me to you. Maybe she'll give it to my son one day.

You, Pebbles are doing remarkably. You did a great plan A with kids on the bed watching TV. He has a lot to think about. Now you'll see if he has the maturity to come back to you a broken man. Just over a week ago my wife cried and said she wanted to get the divorce so we could fall in love and She could ask to marry ME?! A few days later I had a restraining order. Our spouses are tormented. Let's not go along with them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Love Ya! (In a 40 year old kinda way)

SIS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Pebbles.

Quote:
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What will get through to this guy????
================================

Your constancy will.

It is like a flashlight constantly in his eyes. It is in front of him wherever he goes. He wakes up to, he goes to sleep thinking about it. It haunts him.

He has seen the woman he married in Plan A. Even better, he has seen the woman he married, ready and willing to face a future, even where he has created disaster and added incredible complexity to existing problems.

Now he is going to see the same resolve in your Plan B.

You ARE GETTING THROUGH. He just hasn't admitted it - yet.

God bless,
Gimble

Decide when you will send your plan B letter then go dark. 'Til then, keep all interactions brief. He needs to have withdrawal from you and the family. Otherwise why give up the cake eating lifestyle?

You need to implement your boundaries and stick to them. This is hard for a BS t/d but necessary if it is going to work. There is no 1/2 plan A or B. It's all or nothing. Anything 1/2 way w/b viewed as weak and easily manipulated.

L.

You're doing good, Pebs.

Plan B will set you free if you jump in with both feet. Resolve to be dark, dark, dark. Yes, it's hard when young kids are involved, but the contact necessary as a result of having kids involved presents an opportunity to remind him that you're still the Plan A person you were before Plan B - all such contact should be done in a Plan A-type manner. Pleasant and without LBs - just very short and no more than is necessary to accomplish whatever need required the contact. Understand?

WAT

Sleepless, I am guilty of blocking out the bad things. When I look back, I remember mostly good times. Very rarely do I remember something unpleasant or difficult. Either my life has been a fairly happy one...or I'm seeing the past through rose-colored glasses.

You are welcome to hijack my thread any time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Do you ever get the feeling your WW is purposely burning her bridges behind her? I get that feeling about my WH. It's almost as if he wants to damage his relationship with me so badly that I'll have no choice but to give up on him.

Yes, I think your WW has lost the option of going with the original plan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I think our WSs are suffering from a particularly bad case of 'craniorectosis' (head up butt disease). I made up that word. You like? I hope she comes to her senses about your son soon, or that some kind of legal action can be taken quickly to get him back. She definitely doesn't sound like she should be taking care of a child right now, with her head stuck up her butt and all.

Yes, I still wear my ring. I've seen him notice that I have it on, although he has never commented on it. I am keeping it on as a testament to my committment to 'for better or worse,' emphasis on 'worse' right now. Besides, it's pretty and sparkly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

No way. If they want to wallow in their craniorectosis, they'll have to do it on their own - or, in my WS's case, with a haggy skankylosaur. I prefer to be out in the light where the air is fresher!

I'll have you know I won't be 40 for 2-1/2 more hours! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thank you so much, Gimble, Orchid, and WAT, for all of your kind and helpful advice and encouragement. I will remember your advice and implement it in my Plan B.

Dark, dark, dark as possible. Plan A behavior and brevity when contact is unavoidable. I look forward to the peace.

Thanks again. I don't know what I'd be doing right now without all of you.

I've always wanted to haunt somebody, Gimble. It sounds so powerful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

On that note, I noticed that I had three missed calls on my cell phone this evening, all from WH. He didn't leave a voicemail. I don't know if he tried to call the house phone, someone didn't hang it up all the way after the last use, so it has been off the hook for who knows how long.

It's that darn craniorectosis again.

Thanks, Gimble. You are always so encouraging. You give me hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I decided I've spent so much time and energy, and so many tears on WH lately that for my birthday I'd take the day off and it would be all about me!

Starting this evening and through tomorrow night, I am doing as I please - and purposely doing things that would get on WH's nerves, were he here.

This evening:
I ate popcorn for dinner! Don't worry, the kids had real food. I loaded the dishwasher in a random order, no pattern, with the dishes facing all different directions! I am going to sleep in the very middle of the bed! Weenster will sleep in what will be left of WH's spot, hee, hee, on his pillow! I went shopping with a gift card and bought a pair of cute, very frivilous sandals - that I don't need! I parked within inches of the side of the garage!

It felt good, and kind of naughty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tomorrow:
At school I will celebrate in my traditional way. I will bring my students treats and I will give them extra recess. We will play a lot of games, with prizes for everyone (learning games, but they're still fun). We will do Mad Libs, and I will let them use the word 'toilet' as a noun choice (they'll be so happy). I've found that everyone looks forward to your birthday, if you give them treats. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I will wear the tiara! Yes, that's right, the tiara. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Another teacher keeps a plastic and foil tiara in her classroom, saved from a school function from years past. It will look great with my new sandals.

My secret birthday pal will surprise me with something, probably food-related!

I will give each of my own kids a small present.

I will go out to dinner with friends while WH stays at the house with the kids (hee, hee). My new sandals will look great with this, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

If you read this far, thank you for humoring me. It is my birthday, you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

YAY! Happy Birthday pebbles *big glomping hugs*

here....*hands her a large man sized box*....now rememebr handle with care... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />....chipendales are so hard to come by these days *hides dart gun* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Surviving! It's just what I wanted! After he's done dancing for me, he can massage my feet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WHY stop there......make him clean the whole house!....he's your slave for the day... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />......*gives her the controling whip*

OH CRAP! SIHW! You missed MY b-day! I really need someone to weed the yard!

HBD Pebs! Saw you and Weenster on the photo page. I also have a weiner dawg....I also think you should brush Weens teeth with wh's toothbrush...that'd be a depends moment (aka: wet your pants funny), eh? LOL!

And your plan B sounds most excellent! Keep it up. Remember you can't change him...only your reactions to him!

- Kimmy

Hi, Birthday Girl

Quote:
========================
On that note, I noticed that I had three missed calls on my cell phone this evening, all from WH. He didn't leave a voicemail. I don't know if he tried to call the house phone, someone didn't hang it up all the way after the last use, so it has been off the hook for who knows how long.
========================

I wonder just what Plan B will do to him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So, a great big HAPPY BIRTHDAY to you!

Oh, and try backing the car into the garage, it makes for a more interesting challenge, and if you succeed, it's much easier to get out the next morning. If you don't succeed, then make sure you hire hunky carpenters.

God bless,
Gimble