Hi, Pebbles.

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Stupid, stupid, stupid affair!!!
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I wish I could beat some sense into your husband, or beat some stupid out of him. Too bad it doesn't work that way. If it did, you would have professional affair busters to call on :-)

Maybe that could be a new sideline for someone.

"Affair busters west, how may I help you?........"

"Okay, ma'am, you want his legs broke, but don't mess with his face, you like it. I got it. Will that be cash or charge? Yes ma'am, we guarantee that your husband will return home, but we don't guarantee that he won't be a little worse for the wear. No ma'am, we don't do other people, just spouses on request of the betrayed. Yes ma'am, we do offer video of the intervention, but it costs extra."

:-)

Gimble

Hi, Surviving.

It's too bad such a beautiful place can have such bad memories for you. Stupid affair!! Half dome had a patch of snow at the top today. Very lovely.

You sound like a wonderful, loving mom, Surviving.

I've never had to do this with younger kids, thank God. It is rough with the older kids, too, in a different way, I think. My almost 14-year-old son knows way too much. He is so angry at his father, and so disappointed. I have no doubt that my WH loves our kids. I also think they need to spend time with him, for their own mental health. It's just that he is just so alienized (I made a word!) right now that he is not relating well with them (like when he told them he loved another woman more than their mother and he would probably marry her - two days after he told them he was just going away to think for a while).

Thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> As far as being good, I'll do what I can, LOL.

This may count as being a bit mischevious. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> My kids would just call it being embarrassing. I like to use assumed names when I order coffee at Starbucks because my first name is unusual and people have trouble spelling it. When the young man behind the counter asked me my name, I said, "Today, I am Xena!" He asked, "The warrior princess?" I said, "Of course!" He smiled and wrote on the cup. When my coffee was ready, he loudly announced, "Caramel Macchiato for Xena the Warrior Princess!!" He made it a size larger than I ordered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes I am "Rainbow" or "Bambi, with an I," LOL. Yes, I am easily amused.

Hi, Gimble.

I do appreciate the thought.

Oooo, ooo, I'll do it!! Just kidding, I am a nonviolent person. Besides, I'm kinda small and not very scary.


"Hello, Affair Busters?"

WH's face reminds me of Levitra guy (from the commercial). He has the same smile and dimple. Yeah, don't mess with the face. Other parts, okay, use your discretion.

Will you take a radial saw and some power tools in trade? I don't have cash and WH cancelled my credit cards.

That's disappointing. If I refer you to MOW's husband and the wives of her other conquests, will you give me a discount?

Worth every penny, I'm sure, LOL.

Thanks for the laugh, Gimble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pebs - there comes a point when the kids can start making their own decisions regarding visitation. My son is 16 and he decides which parent he is going to be with despite the legal 50/50 custody split. My legal advice has been that a judge will typically defer to the wishes on the child if no other compelling reasons tip the scale to one parent or another.

With your son being 14 (can't remember how old the daughter is) you might be able to get some "relief" via advice from your attorney in this regard. If he doesn't want to go to his Dad's and gets to the point of refusing to go, you should not make him go and seek legal relief. In the meantime, if your son tells his Dad he doesn't want to spend time with him, and you have not coerced this refusal and have made every accommodation for him to spend time with his Dad, you may be very much on solid legal footing. Ther's nothin more you can do, perhaps.

Ask your attorney about this.

WAT

Whenever I see a situation with kids, my ears perk up (imagine a mother dog hearing a far off siren getting ready to howl with that far away look in her eye, a bit like Radar on MASH).

Because WH didn't just leave you, he left the kids too, and they are feeling betrayed, and not understanding it (hey, there's no FamilyBuilders forum for them) it may be time to sit down with them...maybe tonight would be good timing? They are feeling powerless in this situation. Their lives are being controlled by the BS, the fogged-out WS, lawyers, and judges...

This is how I would handle it. I would sit them down and explain this has been a tough situation, and there are probably LOTS of questions they have. Open the floor that they may ask ANY question they want. They will ask some very tough questions, be prepared. Be honest in your answers, you don't have to give ALL the details, just what you are comfortable with. You can let them know there are more details but you don't want to bring it up just yet...You can explain the MB principles of Plan A and Plan B so they understand why it is important you are not talking with Daddy right now...to protect your love, because it seems counter intuitive to save your M you have to have NC with the alien. If they ask those tough "why" questions that no one can answer...it's OK to plead ignorance... When they ask questions about Dad, invite them to ask Dad. If they have anger, sadness, or fear about the situation with Dad, also invite them to tell Dad. They harbor a great deal of anger against Dad and are keeping that from them, and therefore holding back from a better R with Dad (and keeping him from feeling the full consequences of his actions). Invite them to tell Dad about their fear, anger, betrayal and what they want in the the way of visitation. You can help them practice what they will say (or not, it may seem like coaching).

The kids have taken sides. But it's important for them to tell Dad about how he has hurt them...to not avoid this conflict...and to learn to negotiate for their lives and take back some power and control, and not in a passive-aggressive way, like going shopping (althoguh that has it's merits). I don't think Dad has picked up the hint that the kids aren't happy...I'll bet he's justifying it that they are going through a stage and will get over it...like you...

Hahaha someone has alot of time on her hands <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

but seriously as mothers isn't it our job to embarrass our kids from time to time....I can't wait for my son to bing his first girlfriend over...just so i can break out the babypictures <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Oh yes the bathtub baby pic is soooooo gonna be seen. O_O oops I gotta fly work calls *hugs*

Ahh yes. Your right. I vented to my lawyer in a very civil way. She sent the following one sentence response.

WOW!  I think my computer burned up!

I mentioned to Gimble on my thread that I had been holding back information from you guys. I was able to produce almost 100 E-Mails between WW and OM19 that refuted multiple claims in WW testimony to the court. She proved there was a "lover", she had been violent against me in the past, she was depressed and threatened to kill herself, she has extensive travel coming up, she would rather be alone ... and so on.

The bad part is I had to prove my son was lying. So yesterday I told my lawyer to get DS18 out of the middle and leave him alone.

We have to send a parenting evaluator to Europe for over $8000. That's nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Hi, WAT.

I spoke with my lawyer today about visitation. She said that children as young as six may have their opinions taken into account regarding visitation, but we would have to go through a mediator and a judge to have our visitation/custody order changed. The lawyer said the only way the kids could refuse a visit would be if their dad agreed not to make them go with him. I cannot interfere in any way with WH taking the kids at his scheduled times or I would be in violation of the order.

I have told both children that they need to make their feelings known to their father. I told them this is something that I cannot do for them. Both children have always been very respectful and obedient. I am afraid that they will not be able to say something to their father that might make him unhappy or angry. They would not be afraid of retaliation - WH has never been abusive in any way.

Tonight will be a test of whether our son can bring up missing a visit with his father. A friend of son's invited him to go on a camping trip with his family next weekend, WH's visitation weekend. I told son he had my permission, but he would have to get permission from his father, too, since it was his weekend. Our daughter has also been invited to a sleep-over party one night that same weekend.

WH may want me to switch weekends with him. He will have to understand that as the children get older they will have more social engagements - on both of our weekends. I would never stop them from attending a social event just because it was my weekend, unless we had prior important plans. We will see how WH handles it.

Hi, StillHereMakingIt.

I have discussed the situation with them a few times, including again this afternoon. They ask no questions. That worries me. I have tried to make it clear that even though I am hurting, they will not be hurting me by asking questions or expressing their anger and/or sadness, and I will answer any questions they may have as best I can.

We have discussed why dad moved out, that he has a married girlfriend, and that having a girlfriend while being married is wrong. They know they are not to meet Mrs. Lastname until late August.

I also explained more clearly why I did not want to talk to or see their dad (my Plan B). My daughter summarized it as, "So, it hurts your feelings too much to talk to him and you don't want to end up hating his guts." She has a way with words, that girl. Both kids seemed to understand.

We went over this again this afternoon. Son said he didn't know if he could talk to his father, that he only speaks when spoken to when he visits WH. I encouraged him to try. Daughter, of course, said her usual, "I don't care."

I think this is exactly how WH feels. He even said to me, "A lot of my friends are divorced and their kids are fine." WH even has one brother who is coaching him on how to keep his relationship with his MOW together while going through the stress of divorcing me. This is a brother who has always liked me, and still does. The brother divorced his wife to marry an affair partner. WH is surrounded by enablers who are telling him what he is doing is normal and that everything will be fine after a period of adjustment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Surviving.

You have no idea, LOL.

I have some cute videos of the kids in the bathtub and running around nekkid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And for special friends, I have pictures of when my son got his first potty!

Hi, Sleepless.

Good! WW's lies are resurfacing to bite her on the backside. That should help your case.

What a terrible situation. I realize that 18 is considered an adult, but he's probably still very much a little boy inside, especially in a situation like this. Just my humble opinion, of course.

Good heavens!

The lawyer's retainer I borrowed from my parents is almost spent, mostly thanks to WH's continued silly revisions to the custody/visitation agreement. I wonder if our WSs have any concept of how much all of this will end up costing? When we met with my lawyer back in February, WH was complaining about having to pay part of my attorney fees and how much support he'd have to pay us, I said, "This is what you want, right, a divorce? Well, this is how much it costs. Is it worth it to you?" He didn't have an answer.

I stayed completely dark for WH's pick-up this time.

I had the kids ready to go when WH pulled up. They let themselves out the front door and carried all their own things. I told them to have WH let them out at the curb tomorrow morning. Son is supposed to call me tonight when he knows what time they will be home tomorrow (sometime before 9 a.m., according to the order). I asked him to use his own cell phone, not WH's, so I will be sure who is calling.

It is much easier for me emotionally if I don't even see a glimpse of WH.

Plan B for me/kids: We took the dogs to a big park near us and spent the day. It was fun. The kids and I got ice cream on the way home. We (people and dogs) returned home tired and dirty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tomorrow: miniature golf. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I LOVE miniature golf. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like your having fun Pebbles. I hope I still have money left for food. Mom and dad said they would help me too. I just hate to do it, but I will for the kids. If it weren't for them, this would be so much cheaper! But they're worth so much more than what I'm spending.

I told my lawyer to remind WW that if she just gives me custody and agrees to my parenting plan, she'll save a lot of our money! I'm not holding my breath. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I've had some really supportive family in my life. And they all keep reminding me that I'm going to be pretty hot property once this is all over and it keeps going as it is. You can keep that thought in the back of your mind. Although I don't know you, I'm sure you'll be a pretty hot property too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I'm just saying!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> you didn't.....I feel soooorrry for your boy...does he get beet red when embarrassed? hehehe.....well *sigh* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I met with WH today....we had a talk....went considerably well no yelling or screaming and he has no broken bones *I was good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />* but we both cried alot....found out info on the ugliest of sins *my new nick name for ms. so and so* her fathers son and her were not married....he is in jail....on a drug charge....and has been there for 8 years...he has threatened OW to come kidnap her son even if he has to be down the door...*or so it was ment to seem*....OW DS is a rebellious 10 year old....and she is REALLY trying to get WH to be a "dad" figure to him but he says no he's not my son...hmmm...sounds familiar to an extent....I asked if she had an RO against him...he said he's not awake....she doesn't want to wake the sleeping beast....WTF...i said....DS is not to be at her house....he said I was over reacting...Is aid you don't know where he is or when he's getting out and I do not want my son in a place where some nut job could find him and hurt him.....he said DS and I would not be hurt...I said by being involved with her you directly put us in danger...because if this violent offender who is probally a sociopath decides to hurt her he will most likely go after you...and in turn could go after DS and I....I suggested she get the restraining order in case she has to go to court it could help her....and I said if need be to protect my son I have family in the sheriffs department a captain to be exact....I would use my contacts if need be to help her in order to protect my son.....He said with her DS being around most likely he will not be going to her house....and also he changed his story on wanting DS for overnight visits....now he agrees DS should not have overnight visits with him. We discussed custody arrangements and will be meeting with the paralegal to make arrangements for the finalization of the divorce...YAY!....I did drop some good notions orchid...he is wondering where I get my "info" or who is ratting him out....it's funny how paranoid he is....we discussed my possibility of having to move because this place is tooo damn expensive....he said as long as I wasn't taking his son away on purpose....yeah ok <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> whatever....like I am that cold hearted. and ready for the clincher...he found out I havea boyfriend....tada!...see him become obessive.....he wanted to know his name...his age....what kind of job he has....I simply told him what he told me when I found out about his affair...."I'm sorry I don't think he would be comfortable with me giving you his information" he got a little upset *oh snap karma is a *&%$@...then he asked me...is it a serious relationship.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> mo fo....WTF why do you care???? So I got smart and said <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Yes....and watched the man droop....I am just evil arn't I. not to thread jack pebs you know I love you...i just wanted to give you some entertainment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That was my day....and that is all *hugs*

Howdy! Yosemite? I am soooo jealous. Two thumbs up for miniature golf. Have loads of fun. If you ever want to email me, it's you_neak@yahoo.com . Now go out there and get a hole in one!

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I told them to have WH let them out at the curb tomorrow morning. Son is supposed to call me tonight when he knows what time they will be home tomorrow
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I thought that you're supposed to pick them up?

Hi, Cat.

I am supposed to pick them up after the weekend visitations, on Sunday evening. The order states that he picks them up at 6 p.m. on Wednesday evening and takes them to school Thursday morning, or returns them home by 9 a.m. Thursday morning if there is no school.

Even more complicated, sometimes WH has to work on Saturday. If he has to work on Saturday on 'his' weekend, he picks up the kids at 6 p.m. Saturday evening and takes them to school Monday morning, or returns them home by 9 a.m. if there is no school.

And then we have the holiday visits... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hi, 'Neak.

It's raining today! It never rains here during summer vacation. We've had the strangest weather this year. We've decided to put off miniature golf until tomorrow and just spend the day with hot chocolate inside. It's only 74 degrees today (brrr). It was 97 degrees just a couple days ago.

Thanks, 'Neak. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're not kidding. I couldn't believe it when I woke up yesterday. The last storm from a few weeks ago spawned a tornado here, though not quite close enough for me to see. It was apparently only a few miles away, though.

Hi, Surviving,

I haven't actually shown anyone the potty pictures...yet, LOL. I like to tease him that I will show them to his first girlfriend.

Wow! Your OW sounds even more special than mine, a real prize. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> What a messy situation.