Hi, MelodyLane.

Hmmm. I didn't think of that. I was afraid he might be so upset after court that he'd hate me (more than usual) and want to be as far away from me as possible.

It did seem like he was trying to bait me into an argument. The way he went about it: "I need to get ... out of the garage" in a firm voice, instead of asking. He probably is testing me. Gee, you'd think he'd be happy to stay away - that's what he says he wants.

It will be hard, but I'll have to do it. It would have been especially hard today with his big old foot stuck in the door. That was actually kind of rude of him, now that I think about it. You're right. He is showing a lack of respect for me, like he did and is still doing with the affair itself.

Oh, Gimble, where are yoooouuu? Maybe Gimble is off enjoying the Fourth with his family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Cat.

Thank you! It is intimidating because it feels like if I do or don't do or say the right thing, I can ruin any chance I might have. I have learned a lot, though.

I am wondering if maybe what happened in court gave him a tiny bit of respect for me? Maybe that is why he has to 'knock me down' a bit now by testing my boundaries?

Thank you for saying that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am pretty impressed with Alph myself.

thats it pebbles we are scheduling a time for DS and i to come to visit you...and i will be there when he picks up the kids...I would LOOOOVE for him to try and stick his foot in the door with me by the door....I can see it now... *karate chops the foot* Oops OMG i am so sorry I thought you were an intruder...I'm SIHW....man you really shouldn't scare people like that some people are protective and don't ask questions first...man maybe you should go get that x-rayed...remember ice to stop swelling but heat takes the pain away....oh just take a couple of asprin and it should be ok..well see you monday morning...nice to meet you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

hehe i have a good imagination.

Ditto. I know that WH wouldn't contact me at all unless we had kids. Doesn't even send me a text message if he can save his thumb the effort. Things are just so perfect in the septic lovenest, I guess.


I believe his exact words were 'oh, good'? Perhaps he was being ironic? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Alph.

Well, bless you, Cat and Peb. You've made my evening. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Edited to correct mad 'quotation error'.

I think he needed to know that you don't hate him.


what a slacker!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Pebbles.

Sorry you have had a time of it.

Here is the deal with wayward husband. You are going to have to enforce your boundaries with him. It is the only thing he will respect.

What that means is that next time he sticks his foot in the door (and there will be a next time), you politely ask him to leave, and when he doesn't, you dial 911.

Legally, he has no rights to jack. Your settlement agreement is legal and binding. You can request that all his interactions other than children and emergencies, are handled via your lawyer. He has no right to the pool. He has no right to 'help you'. He especially has no right to force his 'good will' on you in any way.

Next time he pushes you, bust his chops (figuratively). He will try again. Count on it and be ready for him.

MelodyLane gave you excellent advice.

Also. I really want to encourage you to keep a healthy distance from hubby. I think he has a temper that is brewing up to a rage. I know you have said that he has never done anything. In this case, everything that is going on is working on him - hard. So, let the plan do the work, you keep contact to a bare minimum. Don't put yourself in a place where his anger could overflow on you.

I think that he 'cleaned up' because of the contrast between you and him in court. I don't know that it means he is warming up to you, or wanting to impress you. I also don't know that it means he is focused on John's wife. I do think that the chairs and cooler play was so obvious that it should be a part of every adulterer's script book. High school - ra ra ree, kick him in the knee, ra ra ras, kick him in the other knee...

I am sorry I was away for a little bit. I normally make sure I am available to anyone that I work with here. Saturday we had to put our 14 year old dog/companion down. The liver cancer got to be more than he could handle. Honestly, that took the wind out of my sails. Not much gets to me, but that hurt. Today, it was a business emergency that started a little after midnight last night, and was only resolved about an hour ago.

Again, I try to not disappear when I am actively working with someone here. I am really sorry that I didn't get back to you sooner.

God bless,
Gimble

Sorry about your little dog, Gimble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Gimble, do you think she should send him another letter, have the attorney send a letter or just confront it head on when he tries this again? I actually thinks he thinks he is entitled to come collect household contents when the spirit moves him!

I think her sending him another letter would be somewhat useless since he ignored and disrespected the first one, but maybe a request from her lawyer to direct any and all property requests to her would protect Pebbles from this? I just worry that he will create an ugly scene at her house with his arrogant sense of entitlement.

Hi, MEL.

I don't think that Pebbles should contact him about the goods. As you said, let her lawyer contact him regarding material requests. Besides, having the lawyer contact him will help reinforce Pebbles boundaries toward hubby.

Again, Pebbles, if he even starts toward nasty with you, dial 911 and let the police sort it out. He has moved out and is seeing another woman. Sorry to overstate the obvious, but you just can't trust him much to do the right thing right now :-)

Gimble

Hi, Surviving.

Thanks for the backup. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Gimble, that is sort of what I was thinking too.

Pebbles, what do you think of asking your lawyer to send him a letter about property requests? I find it very alarming that he feels BOLDLY entitled to DEMAND property that he basically abandoned when he abandoned his family. If that is not insult enough, it is outrageous that he is using your family lawn chairs to entertain this ho-bag.

Hi, Gimble.

I'm so sorry about your dog. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Such a loyal and faithful friend is very much a member of the family.

I was very surprised when he put his foot in the door. The 'old him' would never have been so rude and intimidating. Like you, I think there will be a next time. I think I am going to need to calmly and politely confront him that the terms of my letter are still in effect - after closing and locking the security screen. I think I will enlist my mom as an intermediary now. She has proven that she can handle it. I will tell him to contact my mother for any non-emergent matters regarding the children, including changes in pickup times. I will ask him not to come to the door at all, to stay in his car. I will tell him that any legal matters (including child support and any further action on the divorce) need to go to my lawyer, and he should mail any checks to me or send them by way of my mom. Do you think that would work? Or would something else be better?

If he tries to call me again, I'll just let go to voicemail and direct the matter to the lawyer, if warranted. The lawyer's retainer has been spent, so I'd like to avoid using her services for anything but large legal matters.

His attempts to make contact and come in the house/garage/yard are escalating. I thought it was disturbing that he tried to get the kids to let him in the yard and garage while he thought I was out of town. My son told me that he told his dad everything was locked, but WH wanted to come see for himself (to work on the pool, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />).

I am seeing some signs of this. It worries and saddens me, because he 'was' always such a gentle person and has never been known to be violent to anyone. The foot in the door was a wake up call for me - blatant intimidation. I wonder what he will do if I ask him to leave? He could easily push his way in, if he wanted to. He is much bigger than I am. I'll keep my cell phone with me when I let the kids in next time.

He had to have noticed. Or, maybe his brother said something.

Yes, I am laughing about it now. He had to make sure I knew he wanted two chairs.

You have been so much help to me. I understand that you have a real life, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks, Gimble.

Hi, MelodyLane.

Thank you for your help and advice. Today was the first time (in Plan B) that he has requested/demanded anything from the garage/house. Our custody/visitation agreement does state that I have temporary exclusive use and ownership of the house and its contents. He had a stipulation put in that said he did not give up his half ownership of the contents (which my lawyer said does not mean anything and does not mean he can take things whenever he pleases). It just means that he will get half during the final division of property (which he would have anyway, without his stipulation). I'll have to make a copy of that page of the agreement for him, although he would probably interpret it in his own way.

I don't know how much it would cost, but I might see about having the lawyer send him a letter or call him about property requests.

I think it is interesting that when the lawyer offered him a copy of the custody/visitation agreement, WH declined to take one.

Pebbles, could a well-placed call to a domestic violence shelter be appropriate now -- I mean, an innocent inquiry about your feeling intimidated by your formerly honorable and gentlemanly husband's change in demeanor - and they might then recommend a "documentation" call to the police... just in case? So that it's on record, so that they can track escalation?

I don't know - I'm not a legal eagle here, but I am known to set up the back-up field of support just in case...

Pebbles, I'm down today too. It seems like nothing goes right in the land of the BS. You did a great job with your SBXWH. I hope you had a great weekend. Going over Pacheco Pass surrounded by harleys? Very weird. At least, it wasn't Hecker Pass.

Off to the firworks!

Hi, Pebbles.

Plan B is about you saving what love you have left for hubby, until a time where you will need it, or you decide to move on with your life.

Having said that, sometimes, Plan B *in some cases* will cause the wayward spouse to draw back to the marriage.

Most affairs get old and die of natural causes. Some die earlier due to outside influence. Events such as injections of light which include exposure, truth, rumors, STDs, bad will, good will, lost jobs, stupid mistakes, and bad breath can aid in the untimely death of an illicit entanglement.

When the affair dies, the wayward spouse sometimes wakes up and says to themselves, "self, I think I done a bad thing, I wanna go home" or "self, I think I am going back home and get my life straight".

The latter example is the mindset of a non-repentant wayward spouse. They may return home, and you may quickly find that you liked the peace of being alone - MUCH better.

In the former example, the wayward spouse at least has a clue that they may have made less than stellar choices. That is a start that you can build on.

So, why am I reminding you of this Pebbles? Right now, your hubby is as mad as hell at you. His anger is being fed by frustrations that he doesn't even understand the origin of. For now, his mind won't reconcile his bad actions and choices with the way he feels. The result is the anger and the outward displays of immaturity he directs toward you "I'll show HER!!". In his weak little self, the quiet shy part of him that he doesn't want you to see, is a scared little boy that has chosen summer camp away from home for the first time. He is terrified that he has made a bad choice.

Instead of you feeling sorry for him because you already know that he has made a bad choice, you have to let him learn to live with his choice. That means you don't pick him up from camp. You don't rescue him. You don't let him talk to you or see you so that he is reassured of his choice. You have to let him suffer from the direct consequences of his bad choices and actions.

I know that you want to soothe him and let him know that you don't hate him and that it will all work out and be all right. The FACTS determine that the appropriate actions *are none of the above*. What he has done is extremely damaging to all he has involved. That includes you, the children, your family, his family, John's wife, John, their children, and their families.

I know you must think I am a real hard-[censored] about how you should treat him. I am not. You can be kind, and still report him to the police if you need to. There is nothing unloving about the firmness required when dealing with an addict in the family, or a criminal. Letting them continue to rule your life when they have very clearly destroyed or are in the process of destroying their life, and others around them, is nothing short of complicity.

If you want to demonstrate your loving kindness toward your husband, then you stand your ground, unwaveringly.

God bless,
Gimble

Hi, KaylaAndy.

When I first read your post, I thought making a call such as you suggested would be overreacting. However, when I think about what Gimble has posted about WH's anger and the more I think about WH's actions, I will definitely keep your suggestion in mind.

I remember when WH had not yet signed the custody/visitation agreement and I would not let him take the kids for the weekend. He had never tried to intimidate me before, ever. That evening, he tried to intimidate me by staring me down and speaking very angrily. It didn't work. He has also tried to intimidate me by threatening to withhold financial support and by threatening ridiculous legal action. That didn't work, either. Now he has escalated to physically preventing me from closing the door and demanding items from the garage (although he did not take something that I said I needed). The more his attempts to intimidate me do not work, the more angry he must become.

Who knows what he may do next? I am almost afraid of what he might do the next time, if I tell him to remove his foot from the door. I think I should call my lawyer tomorrow and tell her about what happened.

Hi, grapegirl.

I'm sorry you're feeling down today, too. I hope you had fun watching the fireworks!

We (meaning my intact family) have spent the last few years lighting fireworks in front of our house with our neighbors, my parents and my sister. WH and the man of that family always took the sons with them to go choose the fireworks, then the men lit the fireworks for the rest of us to watch. The father of that family has taken my son under his wing, in a way, since WH left. Our boys are very good friends. The man, by the way, was a betrayed spouse in his first marriage.

This year our tradition was almost the same, with a few major differences. The two boys and the neighbor dad choose the fireworks - and the dad and I lit them (my first time!). He let me light all the really big ones. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A good time was had by all.

I am finding out that even though I still have feelings for my WH, I do not need him. There are so many things that I always relied on him for - that I have learned I can do myself!

Happy Independence Day.

Hi, Gimble.

That makes a lot of sense. For instance, the lawn chair ploy and the changed future pick up time, after hearing about me being gone for the weekend. And, of course, him still thinking that everything that is happening 'to him' is my fault.

Gimble, are you thinking that his 'hitting bottom,' if it ever happens, will involve some sort of explosion of his pent up rage?

My lawyer said something very similar to what you said about me trying to soothe him. We were talking about how WH said we could reach agreements without lawyers. My lawyer said, "You are the kind of person who most needs a lawyer." When I asked her to explain, she said that I try to be too fair and too kind and I worry too much about hurting his feelings and making him angry, while all he is concerned with right now is himself and hurting me.

You and WAT have both told me that I need to let WH suffer the consequences of his actions - tough love. I need to get back to that and be stronger about it. Wednesday, Friday, and Monday (court, the phone call, and the drop off) have been the most contact we have had since Plan B began, really the only contact besides incidental sightings. It's time for me to get back to dark.

Gimble, I think you tell me what I need to hear. You're saying that if I try to soothe him and make it all better, I am actually enabling his behavior, right?

I think the biggest part of my problem is that I sometimes expect him to think and behave like he did before, when he obviously is not that person now.

So, the next time he tries to come to the door I have my cell phone in hand, ready to dial 911. I tell him to please wait in his car. I close the security screen and lock it, if I can before he blocks me, and tell him to communicate only through my lawyer or my intermediary (my mom) and that the terms of my Plan B letter are still in effect. If he does block the door, I call 911.

Aaaagh, this happens to the people you see on Cops on T.V., not regular people like us! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />