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Joined: Apr 2005
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I am a verbally abused male, probably for most of our 12 years of marriage. I have wanted out of my marriage for a while now, but have stayed due to kids. I have not stayed together because I think that it is better for the kids to be in a 2 parent family no matter what, I have stayed together because I am very very afraid of the alternative. The alternative being that she gets custody of the kids and I only get visitation. I could not live with this arrangement nor could my kids, especially my little boy. My relationship with my kids is very strong, we spend a lot of time together, mostly for the purpose of being away from my ever angry wife where we can be ourselves and have fun. We(my kids and I) have a great time together but my wife always gets down on me at every chance she gets. This has been going on for several years, but I do not know how much longer I can continue this way. I can barely breath anymore in my own house, she justs criticizes and berates for everything and anything. I am totally drained and it is starting to effect the very thing I cherish the most, my relationship and time with my kids.

I want out of this marriage and away from my wife's ill will very badly , but I will not get divorced unless I can get custody of my kids.

How can I leave my wife and still keep custody of the kids? It seems the odds are extremely stacked against me.

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Quote:

but my wife always gets down on me at every chance she gets. This has been going on for several years, but I do not know how much longer I can continue this way. I can barely breath anymore in my own house, she justs criticizes and berates for everything and anything.



What does your wife say when you mention this to her in a kind and loving way?

If you are doing nothing to try & resolve it, then things will not get better.
WHat have you done to let her know this bothers/hurts you?

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I can't mention anything to her in a loving, kind way. I would get blown out of the water for saying anything to her in any fashion. I literally meant I can barely breathe, I have been yelled at for breathing too loudly.

As far as not trying anything to make it better ... I have tried counseling and such, both together and separately. She essentially decided it was not her fault nor her problem. I even went to counseling by myself. Each time I went she belittled me and the counselor for hours before and after the sessions, it got to the point where I could not go anymore because of the incessant badgering.

Again I cannot tell her that anything bothers or hurts me, she is like a lion on the prowl, she will prey even harder on the wounded. Even if I say something positive I most likely will get a negative reaction. If I tell her I like something I will never see it again, physical or emotional.

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((((((((((iwantout))))))))))

I am sorry your W treats you so bad. I can understand why you want out but feel you cannot leave because of your kids.


daughterofking aka wackyemotions
wife of 27 yrs
mom of 10
grandma of 4
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I would suggest a therapist to help you deal with conflict avoidance issues and how to stand up for yourself without attacking her.

I know what it is to be beaten down verbally, but I have to take responsibility for allowing my husband to treat me disrespectfully.

Since I stepped into the conflict and stayed there, and took responsibility for my part - allowing him to verbally berate me and belittle me without reacting to it the first time, and the 2nd...

The truth of the matter is that we train people how to treat us. Your wife may be resistant to "un" training, but you need to at least learn the skills to put in the effort before you write off your marriage.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Quote:

I can't mention anything to her in a loving, kind way.



Yes, you can. Just do it in a loving, kind way.

Quote:

I would get blown out of the water for saying anything to her in any fashion.




You might get blown out of the water but that does not mean you cannot do it.

And kayla has apoint.
You need to learn to how to deal with her outbursts.
She may not ever change, but if YOU change (especially in a positive way), the relationship will HAVE to change in some way.

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As I stated in my previous post I tried the therapist route on more than one occasion. She attacked me each time I went to the counselor. She would spend a good hour beforehand(each time) questioning why I was going and telling me how stupid it was to see a counselor. She would badger me on what I was going to talk about. She would go as far as calling the counselor names. Then when I came home it would start all over again, and last for hours and even days. I could not get anything out of the sessions because I was just too flustered before, during, and after. Also, the counselor wanted to have sessions with both of us in order to help me with my situation. I got the W to go once and it was a disaster, she essentially attacked me before , during, and after the session as opposed to only before and after when I went alone.

I really want to know how to keep my kids in divorce. Can I make a case against her over time? Should I keep a journal? I can't even go to a lawyer at this time because she would know it. She keeps track of all of our expenditures and would definitely notice an expense such as a lawyer. Then it would be all over I would have no chance to prepare for anything. Essentially, as I have read others do, she would try to beat me to the punch and serve me the big D instead of the other way around.

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Quote:

Quote:

I can't mention anything to her in a loving, kind way.



Yes, you can. Just do it in a loving, kind way.

Quote:

I would get blown out of the water for saying anything to her in any fashion.




You might get blown out of the water but that does not mean you cannot do it.

And kayla has apoint.
You need to learn to how to deal with her outbursts.
She may not ever change, but if YOU change (especially in a positive way), the relationship will HAVE to change in some way.




Please forgive me with the quote stuff, I am just learning this.

Anyways, I am tired of dealing with her outbursts. I avoid her as much as possible. I try to ignore the attacks as much as possible, but there is only so much you can take. These things happen on a daily basis and I get so mad. If I even say one word to her, no matter how it is said, the results are more outbursts and unfortunately if I say nothing to her she has outbursts. I have a huge problem with bringing up anything with her, because I cannot stand the outbursts anymore.

Let's say I cannot get a divorce and keep custody of the kids, therefore I will stay in this relationship, and therefore have to learn to deal with this better. Are there any books that anyone can recommend on how to deal with someone like this?

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There are many books that can help you deal with verbal abuse. You might want to start with "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patrick Carnes.

Now, about this divorce idea. We're not much into divorce around here, but we all understand that it is really important to protect people from harm. Verbal abuse is DEFINITELY harm. So here are the things I would do to document the time you spend with your kids and the abuse. These things may well become important later. I suggest that you begin a journal. Nothing fancy is necessary. Here are things you should be tracking:

- Time that you spend with your kids. It doesn't have to be "fun" time. It can be chores, meals, bedtime routines, sports practices, school outings. Everything. Write it ALL down. (If you want your kids with you, the more time you spend with them, the better. Make it as consistent as you can, too.) Mark it on your calendar. All you need is something like "6:30 Soccer, Jane and John and me."

- Incidents of abuse. Write down each and every time that your wife badgers you, yells at you, belittles you, or otherwise treats you badly. Write down the words that were said and what you did about it. Write down each time that she treats your children like this as well. Again, this doesn't have to be long. "4/14 6:00. Yelling about X. Called me X, Y, and Z. Called Jane X. Called John Y. Kids and I went out for a while to let her calm down."

As practice, go back over the last two or three days and write down what you remember of your time with the kids and the incidents of abuse.

Regarding the badgering and other abuse, practice saying this: "Speaking to me that way is abusive. It has to stop."

Yes, I know, she'll just rant at you. But so what? She's going to rant no matter what you say, so you might as well address it head-on.

Here are a few web sites for you to look at:

http://www.verbalabuse.com/indexmain.shtml
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/verbal_emotional_abuse
http://www.cyberparent.com/abuse/
http://www.cyberparent.com/abuse/maleabuse.htm

There are a ton more out there. Just do a Google search on Verbal Abuse.


Sunny Day, Sweeping The Clouds Away...

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When she says (okay, yells) something at you, respond emphathetically like this, "Wow, you're upset about (whatever) I did/said. I did not know that bothered you. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'll have to watch out and make sure I don't do that again."

Anyways, I am tired of dealing with her outbursts.
Then you say simply and nicely, “I’m sorry you feel that way. I do not wish to continue this conversation with the way you are behaving. When you have calmed down, perhaps we can try and discuss this again” and then you leave.
Do it every single time she starts up.

Don’t try to get anything else across. Simply make the statement.

Are there any books that anyone can recommend on how to deal with someone like this?

We Can Work It Out: How to Solve Conflicts, Save Your Marriage, and Strengthen Your Love for Each Other
by Clifford Notarius


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...ks&n=507846

Don’t simply dismiss this book by the title. It is all about communication, how to get your point across and how to understand what the other person is trying to get across.

Last edited by Chris -CA123; 04/14/05 05:34 PM.
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Quote:


There are many books that can help you deal with verbal abuse. You might want to start with "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patrick Carnes.




Just J - is this the right author??? Patrick Carnes is a sexual addiction expert who runs a treatment center for it down in Arizona. I thought the author was a female and last name was EVANS.

Another web site is www.drirene.com - excellent for dealing with the person who maliciously keeps tearing their spouse down.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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I don't know what state you live in, but you could go and talk to an attorney. Most attorneys will work with you. (I hate to be the one who says file but I kind of have a bad attitude -sorry.) My attorney has done tons of work and has not yet recieved one penny. You also could get opions from local attorneys, they can't be her attorney if you have spoken to them about your case.

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I thought the Author Was Patricia Evans, but I reserve the right to be wrong...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-9478009-2428808

Of course, it seems she writes from the perspective that it's the man that is abusive. I don't recall many of her examples in Controlling People being a controlling woman. I felt a bias in reading her work.

But yeah, the author is Patricia Evans

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How old are your children? In most states when they hit a certain age they have the legal right to choose (when both parents want them) which parent they live with.

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Whatever the outcome of your marriage is, since you have kids with her you will have to know how to deal with her whether you like it or not.

If you are absolutely sure that your marriage is beyond hope, then start planning your exit from it. Contact lawyers, and father's rights groups that can give you insight as to what you can expect and how to incresase your chances of getting custody of the kids. Furthermore, if you have the money, consider contacting a private investigator to see if your W is having an affair. Many unfaithful spouses become extremely cruel and abusive as part of their effort to demonize their betrayed spouses and justify their affair. Find out if your state is one of the few that considers adultery valid grounds for divorce for IF she is having an affair, your chances of getting custody of the kids improve significantly. Lastly, document, document, document every abusive incident and make her aware that you are doing so. One friend got a little digital recorder that she would turn on every time her H berated her and informed her now exH that she got plenty of those recordings tucked away. Needless to say, his abusive behavior towards her dropped significantly. Remember that abusers are bullies [i.e. cowards] and do not want others to know what they do to their victims, so consider this idea to see if it might work for you as well. Good luck.

TMCM

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If someone tells me they have made up their mind and they truly want a divorce, far be it from me to try and talk them out of it. Keep in mind though that this is a marriage building site and that it is unlikely that you will receive much coaching in the express divorce area.

I sense from your posts that you are a conflict avoider with your wife. She is an aggressor and has preyed and picked upon your obvious weakness until you have become nearly emasculated.

I suspect your children are witness to this abuse also and they will slowly lose respect for you as a man and a father. Your lack of response to your wife's verbal abuse is setting the stage for your children's relationships when they are older. They will most likely follow suit.

Your wifes abuse has beaten you into near submissiveness. She may well have some major anger issues that SHE must work through. You cannot change her. You can only change yourself. You can learn to cope with her anger and stay in the marriage or you can change the way YOU react to her anger.

Another option is to do as you suggest and leave the marriage as a shell of a man you once were when she married you. How will you react to other woman that come into your life when they confront you with aggression. Will you continue to simply avoid them?

I believe that a wimpy, spineless, conflict avoiding male is a major turn off to most women and are a major drain on a Love Bank. That's not to say that you must be Macho Man but there is indeed a balance. I suspect that your wife's Love Bank is at or near empty as is your's for her.

I submit that whether or not you divorce your wife, your biggest issue at hand is not your wife and her verbal abuse of you. It is YOU. She will always treat you this way because you allow her to. She will be a miserable part of your life even after a divorce because you will have to learn to co-parent your children together.

I don't think you are trying to escape your marriage as much as you are trying to escape this vulnerable facet of yourself that your wife has severely exposed. A divorce will put some distance between you and your wife so that her picking at your wounds won't be as often and as painful but you will always be vulnerable to her abuse unless you change the way you react to it.

Regarding the kids, expect no more than 50/50 custody. You will probably get less. Don't consider it visitation. I call it 'parenting time'. I don't visit with my DD. I am her father and I parent her as such. Your parental authority and responsibilty will not be limited only to the time you physically spend with your kids. You will still be their dad, 24/7 and just as responsible as ever.

I'll tell you this. Co-parenting means that you will have to learn to communicate with your XW. No more avoidance. You will have to make decisions together regarding your children. You cannot force your children to be the messenger between you and your XW.

If you want a divorce than get a divorce. Don't blame your wife's abusive behavior for your decision. Blame your inability to rectify your differences. The court refers to this as 'Irreconcilable Differences' or 'No-Fault: Irretrievable breakdown of the marriage.' Check with your state divorce laws.

Here is one of many divorce sources available on the internet.

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Why do I have the feeling that there is another woman "friend" involved in this somewhere?

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Quote:

Why do I have the feeling that there is another woman "friend" involved in this somewhere?




Or an OM? Many WW's are notoriously cruel and make life hell for their BHs [mine sure was] while they are involved in their affairs.

TMCM


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