Hope all is going well, my friend. As you can see, I got my "Owl" name working, so I'll be posting under this name again. Hope it doesn't confuse you too much! LOL

I was reminded again this weekend of how the WS's perception is skewed during and immediately after the A. My wife and I talked about the A for a few while we were out on a date together, and ran into a car with plates from the state that her OM lives in.

It occurred to her how little she really knew about him, when she realized she had no idea what kind of car he drove.

I think that you'll see some of the same shift in your wife's case as well...the longer NC holds, the more she'll begin to see the A as it REALLY was...and at the same time, she'll begin to see your marriage in that same light as well.

Much easier to spell too Owl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the thoughts. Had a sort of neutral weekend. Nothing special really to report. As I 've said, I'm always hoping for some kind of a breaktrhough, but I'm pretty sure it's going to come in small bits at least for now. She does seem to be warming up a bit. More smiles, more interaction, just generally more "normal". I guess it's the big things that are missing that I notice more than the little things that are are showing up.

Keeping the faith!

Hmmmm, having a bit of a frustrating time today. After feeling a bit hopeful that things were at least pointing in the right direct if not actually moving forward, I'm getting a sense of balking on my wife's part. Maybe I'm just noticing every little thing, but it seems like she's annoyed by many of my efforts to meet ENs especially over the last few days.

Is it bad for me to say "I love you" when I leave the house or hang up the phone, or before bed?" She seems to feel obligated to say I love you too, but it feels forced and I don't want her feel like she has to say that, but at the same time, I don't want to not say it.

sigh


It may be that the hopefullness I was feeling has skewed my expectations, or maybe this is just another downhill on the rollercoaster. I'm hesitant to bring this up with her b/c she tends to get defensive ("I'm doing all I can right now, I'm dealing with my own issues right now, etc.") and shut down my discussion about working on us.

BTW I pointed her to Cards' thread, she says she read it some but really had nothing to say to me about it. All I can do is hope that maybe it piqued her curiosity some. Maybe another time.

Maybe I'm just getting worn out trying so hard and seeing so little for the effort. I realize that 99% or more of my effort at this point is probably wasted as the NC is only at 7-8 weeks now. Just wish I knew what was going on in her head or how to approach her about it. It's the not knowing that kills me more than the percieved slights.

Any ideas about how to tell her all of this without it being too aggressive? I get the sense that when ever I bring up tings about the relationship, she'd rather not talk about it and tends to give very little input. One of the roots of our problem is that she could never tell me how she felt and it seems that that is still a huge issue.

LOL...quit complaining about trying to spell Karegh...YOU try spelling Sysyphus!! LOL

Anyway, read your post, and it got me to thinking a bit. Why not just ASK her what she's thinking, what she thinks when you say "I love you", etc...?

Tell her that you know your lack of listening to her in the past was an issue...and that you are more than willing to listen now. That you WANT to listen now...that it's important to you to hear what she's thinking/feeling...even if she thinks that its something that you wouldn't want to know. Explain to her that YOUR pain stems from the deception most of all, and that by her being open and honest with you, even when it may be painful, will still help to heal you as well.

Gently remind her that talking about feelings and problems helps to BUILD relationships...(after all, THAT is how the A started too, isn't it?).

Part of the trick to this tho...when she DOES say something that hurts, it's important for you to handle that pain well, because in the beginning, how you react to those things are going to be major indicators to her about whether or not you've been honest in this...so its important that you admit that it hurts, but also it's very important that you do take the time to see it from her side as well...and make sure that she knows that you've done so. TALK ABOUT IT.

She notes that she's dealing with her own issues right now...and to a degree, that is fine. But she's got to re-learn to work on things TOGETHER with you when possible too. I'm not sure if it's still too early in her case or not...her A lasted a lot longer than my wife's, so that may well affect her withdrawl time as well.

She has to learn to trust you again too...as sad as that may sound. Right now, she knows that she's REALLY hurt you...and she's not sure that you're not gonna hurt her back yet. She's got to see that you're being honest in your desire not to 'get paybacks' on her.

This is how I handled it in my case at least. I was honest with what I was feeling, but tried like hell not to lash out at her when I was hurting too. The big thing is to get her to talk with you about what she's feeling, even if it's not flattering to you. And then calmly and quietly let her know what you're feeling as well. And make any suggestions that might HELP her that you can in dealing with her own pain. Good luck my friend.

Wise as ever -why these solutions aren't more obvious to me I'll never know. I guess I've been hoping too much that she would take the initiative at some point -but these are my issues and I need to take the lead with them. Thanks -I'll give it a whirl.

Sys-

Interesting..... We are on the same timeline but from opposite perspectives. What we do have the same is a spouse not sharing feelings. This has been a problem for me throughout our M.

I do have some thoughts for you, but I will have to come back later. I do want to say that I understand your frustration in the progress area. It is VERY SLOW. I think we have to take it just one day at a time and KNOW that it's 2 steps forward and one step backwards. Also, she may not be sharing because she may be UNSURE of what she is feeling, OR she thinks what she's feeling may hurt you.

Alright...we've had this discussion about the 'wise' thing before....don't make me break out the 2x4 on the next person who suggests that I'm wise!

I just post what I see or think or feel when I read things here...it's got nothing to do with wise, it's just got to do with looking at things from all sides. Remember this my friend...NO ONE does something for no reason at all...even if they don't know the reasons themselves WHY they did something, there was something in them that motivated them to act/react/behave in the manner that they did. Learn to look for the motive behind the behavior, and people mistake you for being wise. LOL

Last night I poured my heart out to my wife. It was very emotional, but not a blow-out or a melt-down, just a release of a number of the issues that have been gnawing at me. I do feel a lot better, even with the new insights I have from her (which aren't all great).

I asked her about her feelings towards my attempts at filling ENs and she said she was fine with that and in fact that I've been wonderful. I told her how sometimes I feel like they get a chilly reception and she said it wasn't on purpose and that I should tell her when I perceive it -keep it out in the open.

I asked her about her general feeling towards our progress and she said (as I 've noted before) that she feels like we are about where we were before everything blew up (ie, not "in love", but friendly I guess). She told me that she was not unhappy, not feeling like running away or anything ,but I certainly got the impression that she wasn't getting what she wants from our marriage (I wouldn't expect that at the moment).She said she was giving it time and wanted to stop hurting the family and hoped she could be the person she should be. I dind't press on that one , but I am curious -does she feel like she has let us down? Or that somehow she can't find her way back to what we once were? Or that she needs to be someone that she isn't?I have to admit, one of the first reactions I had to the whole EA besides my own sense of betrayal was how could she dp this to our kids? At the time she said that she felt the kids deserved happy parents and since she wasn't happy, she was going to go find hapiness. Funny how a happy father didn't make it into her equation :P

This idea of not being able to be happy with me seems to be at the crux of her situation. Last night she expressed her fears if not doubts about being able to find happiness (ie Love) with me, but was giving it time. I wish I had a plan for gettng there besides waiting.

At this point she said she was doing what she felt she could -maintaining NC and trying to spend time together and try to reconnect as friends.

I tried to relieve her of the idea that I was fixated on the EA. I made it clear that I am 100% focused on the now and the future and that I realize that there is nothing I can do about the past other than learn from it and that I was ready to go forward with her and that I wanted to be there for her in anyway she would let me. I tried to encourage her to try to let me in -to take a chance on me.

I should note that she said that a few months back, she was so negative that whenever she told me how she was feeling all she was doing was making things worse -it would add to my anxiety and set off our meltdowns. Now though, with things not so negative and her willingness to at least wait and see, that maybe we can begin to open up to each other more.

Most importantly I told her that right now, the thing I need from her is openess and honesty -that all of our problems and my hurt both stem from her not telling me what she was feeling and doing. She didn't really make a commitment to it other than to say she was trying.

So there it is. We both had a good talk and a good cry. I hope it did us some good.

The good talk and good cry go a long ways towards healing you both, I think. It was exactly THAT kind of talking that eventually lead to reconciliation in my case. I think it's just going to take time now for things to come together...and counseling, and continuing to meet her needs as best as you can. You're doing awesome friend...don't forget to share this discussion with your MC on your next visit. Keep on keeping on!

Sysyphus,

You might find this post very useful in understanding where your W is in all of this. These are SKM's Chronicles. I bookmarked them for you to read. I think you will get a better sense of time from them. Here they are SMK's Chronicles

God Bless,

JL

Thanks for that! That was an amazing read and gives me so much hope. Maybe my wife can relate to some of it . I will forward the link on to her and hope it helps.

A mid weekend update as it were. Things seem really improved if only in small ways. Friday we had our MC seesion -MC seemed a bit bored with us, I think we talked more about his vacation than us -I think he's just waiting on us to get get closer and kind of babystitting us through this period.

On a really positive note, since our talk, the chilliness seems to be gone -I don't know if it was my imagination or what. Anyway, after the MC session, we stopped at the supermarket -on the way across the lot, I put my arm around her shoulders. Previously, she would have let me do it , but that would be about it -this time she reciprocated. I know this seems so trivial, but it really struck me as significant.

Better than that, yesterday morning, on awakening, she leaned over and gave me a good mornng hug and kisss -this is really blowing me away -she hasn't done that in years. All I can say is I really think she's trying and I am really grateful for the effort.

A few hugs and kisses aren't going to fix us, but I do feel it begins to lay the ground work for helping create an atmosphere better suited to reconciliation.

We've been having a really nice relaxed weekend -even the kids are behaving. Oh and Owl, the guild we joined together is inducting us on Tuesday -that is really working out well for us -seems to be a great replacement for her old guild and her attention really seems to be on our new situation and playing together. She really likes this new gang and the old gang on EQ 1 is slowly fading into the background except for a few close girlfriends of hers. I feel like she's really moving on in a positive way.

Anyway there it is for what it's worth.

Small and steady steps are valuable. How r u doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

These steps while helpful now will need to improve in a while but for now acknowledging them is important for your R's success.

take care,
L.

I'm doing really well, we both agreed we had a great weekend. I'm not hoping for a sudden return to romance, but with consistent progress both in terms of openess, the ability to talk to each other and just having a good time both together and as a family is making a difference. Both of our moods are considerably improved (Zoloft might be helping at this point as well).

I really think a big part of my wife's concern and apprehension is wrapped up in the past -my negative behavior in particular. I believe I've turned over a new leaf. And now that the whole communication issue is so plainly out there, I believe we really have a chance to do it right this time -we just need to practice it. I feel anyway that we have all the right ingredients and the right atmosphere to fix this thing, now it's going to take time and work and patience. And the recognition that there will still be ups and downs for both of us.

If I have any one wish it would be for my wife to come right out and say "honey, I really want this to work out and here are the things I'm going to do with you to get us there". She hasn't really done that, but I need to remember too that I've been out here and other sites educating myself in terms of a process where she really hasn't. Our MC doesn't have particularly rigorous approach to us. He is taking it pretty slow and easy. His stated goal for the time being to get us back to being "in like" with each other and to start communicating in general. She is on the program in that respect. She has come a very long way in the last few months and that gives me hope. One thing that I do want to try outside of the MC program we're doing is to see if she'll do an EN questionaire with me. I know it would be a huge help to me and hopefully to her as well. She tends to be resistant to that sort of thing, but we'll see.

Sys-

Sounds to me like you're in the same boat I was for a good while. My wife never actually sat down and said "here is what I'm going to do with you" either. If you remember, I'd voiced a similar desire back on the LS page at one point. Given that neither of our wives have come here, I'd say that we're not likely to see something like that, but I can also tell you that from my perspective (coming up on the 1 year mark from d-day now) that it's not doomsday if you don't see her give a plan like that.

What IS important is that you need to see her make a concious choice to be with you and to work on the marriage. And I would heartily recommend that you bring that up in your next counseling session. Our first counselor, while very tactless and clearly one sided, DID do us that one bit of good. She made it clear to my wife that at some point she would HAVE to make that choice...she couldn't just sit there with the attitude that the marriage would fix itself someday on its own without her putting any effort into it. My wife did NOT understand that at first...at first, her only goal was to 'fix herself'. But eventually, she DID come to the understanding that a lot of things have to remain on hold until a choice is made...and only THEN can those things be worked on by both spouses.

Bring this up in your next counseling session...I think it would be good conversation.

Glad to hear that the EQII guild is working out for ya'll. It's odd, but we've barely gamed at all over the last few weeks...some online cards, but hardly any EQ. In a way I'm glad, as we're coming up on the anniversary mark for us, and I know the OM is still gaming as well.

Glad to hear that things are going well for you friend...keep up the awesome work!

Yeah, I know about that "fix herself" part. My wife too expresses that need and I don't belittle it. She talks about feeling lost. Like she has lost herself. She loves being home with the kids but at the same time I think has come to see herself as being identified as only S and K's mommmy.There may be more to it than that, but I'm not sure yet. This is one area that I see as an opportunity to meet some EN -helping her get past this problem as well.

One of the things I think I've always doen right was to encourage her to do whatever she wanted in terms of pursuing intersests outside of mommy-hood. It is hard though for her to get the time and flexiblity she needs to do much. It's my hope that some of the fix will come along with the work we are doing on "us". I can't help but think some of the lost feeling is tangled up in the problems with our relationship -that certainly isn't the whole thing, but I'd like to see if her sense of self improves along with everything else.