History: I have read all the relevant info on this website and the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love and am really excited about the possibilities of having a loving marriage by following these concepts which have been like a revelation to me. My wife told me she wanted a divorce a few weeks ago, it is pretty much a text book case of why Women Leave Men that has led us here (emotianal neglect, lack of affection and admiration). We have 2 children and besides that we have been in a state of withdrawl for most of our marriage (we married with no wedding after she became pregnant with our second child). Since she told me, I have found out about 2 affairs she has had over the past 6 months. One on the internet that had no contact and died naturally. The other with an acquaintace that started inviting her out to the bar and ended up sleeping with her one time while she was drunk. That relationship appears to be over, as her friends tell me she doesn't talk about him the same way anymore and I think she realized he was not exclusively in to her, and also I confronted them recently when she lied to go see him at the bar and she no longer is convienient for him now that I showed up. She has still never come clean and still denies they ever slept together even though she told her friend who told me and does not deny it to that friend now while still denying it to me. I don't even bring it up anymore however.

Anyways, I have been trying my best to meet her emotional needs and follow the Policy of Joint agreement, I have been buying her flowers, a puppy she really wanted, and other gifts and we do seem to have some genuinely good times in each others company, and good conversations but she still has her emotional barriers up and is in the state of withdrawl. She won't allow me to touch her in any affectionate way even though I know that is one of her most important needs. I feel that the only reason she might be staying is because she is completely dependent on me financially and in 10 months she will be finished with school and able to support herself.

My question is there anything I can do better to convince her to join me in the state of conflict? She has said I come on too strong and she feels smothered some times and I am trying to respect that by following the policy of joint agreement. Also, if I do not see any improvement with her lowering her emotional barriers should I still proceed to plan B even if there is not another man in the picture?

Okay, time to pick up "Surviving An Affair". Yes, your WS is still in withdrawal. If she says you are smothering her, step back. Focus on her, but in a different way. You are showing her affection, but the way you want it. You have to figure out what she wants. Will she fill out the EN questionaire? Start there. Also, have you found an MC? Look for one. Third, consider signing up for Retrouvaille. It is a weekend workshop for Ms like yours.

Your WS is not sure she wants to make a life with you. Remind her of why she fell in love with you in the first place. Rediscover the person you were all those years ago. Be the husband she cannot walk away from.

Finally, what is your homelife like? You have two children. How old are they? Children add alot of pressure to an M. Can you help out more around the house?

Also, start making your home a happy place to be. Engage in family activities: walks around the block, board games, picnics on the weekends. Start making some happy family memories.

Can you get a babysitter once a week? You will need alone time with your wife. This is what will recover your M.

You are lucky if OM is out of the picture. It's time to win your wife back.

BTW, do NOT go to Plan B if there is no OM. The best hope for your M is for you to be together. Plan A like you haven't Plan A'd before!

Hmm, I will try to pick up that book although I worry what she would think since she does not consider it an affair. Your advice though makes a lot of sense, about showing affection. Right now she will not fill out the EN questionair or even see an MC, we went to one about a year and it did not good and actually made things worse I think.
You are right on target there, she is not sure she wants to make a life with me. I worry about the part of why she fell in love with me, we we had broken up after dating for a year and although I did not know it, a large part of why we got back together was because she knew she was pregnant. So for largely 5 of the 6 years we have been together was mainly because of the kids. I think for the majority of that time we were both in a state of withdrawl on some level.

Our homelife is pretty good, I was somewhat neglecting things around the house and stuff but have changed and put in a new effort in those parts of my life too. She has always considered me to be a good father and provider and said when she wanted the divorce that she doesn't want to take the kids away or ever try to give them a different daddy. She also said she doesn't want to take anything from me financially. I actually do most of the chores and taking care of the kids when I am home (and I have been coming home from work earlier now too)and have been putting in extra effort in those areas too. Our children are 3 and 4 and yes I am able to find sitters so we can spend time together.

Thank you, Thank you. This seems to be very good advice and to some extent I have been trying to do some of these things, but her emotional barriers were bothering me sometimes and triggering demands and disrespect in me. I have also asked for her help in getting a handle on our budget and financial situation and she seems eager to do this.

I often go back and forth from being encouraged with how things are going and despairing when I run in to her emotional barriers. I do love her very much and largely from the info here realize how wrong our marriage was even though I always tried to convince her it was fine because we were doing well financially, had our happy children, and got along well with little arguing. If only I could have figured this stuff out sooner.....

Hang in there, blaze! The road to recovery is sooo very difficult. You are dealing with someone who is not sure she wants to be with you. You will wonder, too, sometimes, but that is what this board is here for. I just want to reassure you that what you are going through is very *normal* and you will be able to recover your M.

Your doubt comes in because of the way your M started. I see your point, but make sure you are not rewriting history. If your R wasn't good in some way, do you think your W would have married you? Your W is not dumb and you have *alot* to offer someone.

The hard part is worrying about your W all the time. You need to turn the attention to yourself. What do you want? Who are you? Who do you want to be? What do you want out of life? What do you want in a relationship? Only when you become honest with yourself, will your W be secure in your M.

It's okay your W doesn't consider it an affair. My WS didn't like that word, either. You see, along with your M, you will each need to heal. You will have to recover from an awful betrayal and she will have to learn to live with yourself.

If you are able to rebuild your M, there will be a point when you will see WS at her lowest. And then you will wonder if your hell is worse than hers.

The path of the BS is so difficult at this time. We need to be compassionate. First of all to ourselves, but also to the very person who hurt us so terribly. Plan A shows us *how* to behave, but at some point, we need to internalize that and *choose* to be in the M.

If WS will not fill out the EN questionaire, can you guess at it? Also, what are the things that she complains about? It doesn't matter how many ENs you are meeting, it gets wiped out by an LB. Work on cutting out all the LBs.

Please, do not discount why your W came back to you when she was pg. You will wonder why she is with you now. I am here to tell you it's because she does love you. It might be all buried in feelings of guilt and shame right now, but it is there. It is up to you to keep that spark alive.

There will come a time when you will be so grateful that your children were the reason you worked so hard on your M. They are not the reason you stay together, they are the reason you will build a beautiful new M together.

I have an almost 3 year old. The best part of your W is in your precious babies, help her find that part of herself again.

Finally, are you sure OM is out of the picture? Keep your eyes and ears open.

You have not chosen the easy path, but from what I have heard it is easier than the aftermath of a divorce. Know that you can be happy again and know that you are doing the right thing. Take care and post here when you are low. This board saved my sanity and M last year. ((hugs))

Thank you so much for the advice. I can guess at a lot of her EN even though she won't fill out the questionaire, but obivously affection and sexual fulfillment are out of the question at this time.....

I am pretty sure the OM is out of the picture, but I will keep my eyes and ears open. She was originally trying to say that they were just friends, even when it was clear he was interested in her and they had kissed (which was admitted to) and slept together (which she still won't admit), and that I should accept this since she has not very many friends. I think she really didn't want some silly fling to be what ended our marriage and that she was serious about stopping the romance and being friends with the guy, and she says that any guy she is friends with will prolly be interested in her but that it doesn't mean she can't be friends with them. But after me confronting her when she lied and went and saw the OM it was pretty much already over from what I could tell and me showing up pretty much cemented it, clearly to me from talking to the guy he was just in it because it was convienient.

I do have concerns however that there very easily could end up being a different OM in the future. She has even started talking about an old co-worker who was friendly and flirty with her, but always respected that she was married (unlike the loser who actually slept with my wife). They have maintained some minimal email and phone contact, but she has been saying she doesn't have any friends to go hang out with and that he is someone that she might want to go hang out with. I have told her I would be uncomfortable with this, and that she actually approached me about instead of just doing it is encouraging. I told her that I would want to talk to him before if they ever did go hang out and this is where she gets defensive saying she doesn't want me making her friends feel uncomfortable and she was mad at me for doing what I did with the OM she did sleep with (confronting him). I want to believe her, but she has lied so much about what happened with her and the OM. She doesn't want me to be invading her privacy and following her around and interogating her friends I guess, but I have shown ZERO jealously and always been trusting and allowed her to go out in the past and look where that got me. Now that trust has been betrayed I don't know how to deal with this type of situation. I obviously can't completely trust her, but how do I avoid the LB of not giving her space? I want to follow the policy of joint agreement but the only solutions I am seeing if she does plan to hang out with this ex co worker would be reluctant agreement. I have suggested let me talk to him, or go out with a group of people instead, and can't think of any other ideas. She says she will not pursue any romance with anyone since we are still married and that since legally we are still married that this co worker will respect that, but it still makes me uncomfortable. Of course, there are no definite plans for her to see him but I am struggling with how to deal with it if she does. Any suggestions?

No, no, no. She must not see any men during this time. Have you sat down with her and had a heart-to-heart? Ask her to refrain from male friendships until she gives your M a chance. You both need to focus on each other. Okay, she told you one of her ENs. She doesn't have any friends. Why can't she make female friends? What about playdates? Where is her family?

I'm not talking about forever. My WS does have female friends, but we have lots of rules set up. How does your WS have time to visit these friends? Does she work? Is she a SAHM? If you strive to spend your 15 hrs/week together doing something fun, she won't have time to see her other 'friends'.

You will have to put your foot down where other men are concerned. Gently tell her that you want to work on your M. Tell her that you realize you didn't fulfill her ENs. Ask her to give you a chance. Just ask for 3 months of no contact with other men. That's all. Doesn't your M deserve this? Don't your children deserve happy parents together?

Could your WS be depressed? She sounds like she's trying to reach out to someone, anyone. Can you get her to IC? Make sure it is someone who is pro-M, though.

In the meantime, all you can do is work on yourself. We can't change the other person, but she will notice. She won't say anything, but she will start to wonder who this new person is who says to give him a chance. Keep her guessing. Keep her wanting to see what you do next.

Now, your assignment...think of something nice (and simple) you can do for WS tonight. And then think of something nice you can do for yourself (call an old friend, read a new book, pick up an old hobby). The weekend is coming up -- can you do something fun together?

Yes, thats how I feel about her seeing other men to. Previously, I had been telling her not to see the OM and she refused saying they were "just friends". It was hard because I realized my doing so is basically a demand, which is a LB. I do feel very thankful and lucky that he is out of the picture now. I guess I should have a heart to heart and try to convince her not to see other men, I have told her that I can not accept her pursuing romance elsewhere and she agrees and says she doesn't want to. I guess I should do it soon to before she gets too attatched to the idea of hanging out with this ex-co worker.

She had 2 pretty good female friends, they both betrayed her however about the affairs. She has completely dumped one of them who was a friend of 15 or so years, there relationship had been suffering and her betrayal was the last straw. She is still friends with the other and she does have a sister who is about 3 years younger than her. I have even explained that I don't really have more friends than she does. If her need for friends is a EN, than my being friends with her, which is really all she is ready to focus on now, is prolly one of my best paths toward reconciliation I guess. I hope that is the case because I do worry sometimes that bieng friends is all she will ever want to be with me again.

She has told me she is up and down about the chances of things working out with us. At least she is not 100% commited to divorce, so really I do feel encouraged that if I can avoid LB and continue to meet her EN that she will let me that we can recover. I just worry about my jealousy and demanding that she not see any men in any way (at least for now) as being an unavoidable LB that may ruin it all. I look forward to the possibility of things working out immensely and have wondered if I should talk about it with her some. If we do work it out I think about things like finally giving her a real wedding, since our marriage was simply a civil affair with no guests but our children, and possibly even having a 3rd child in the future. When she is finsihed with school our financial situation, which is realtively solid already, will allow us do so many things. OUr future together can be so great if we can just get through this.