OK i am crying this email has me @_@....scare tactics? a little late on the draw of figuring things out?....dear dear member...please scan over this long LONG email response from wh and give me your valued thoughts:

As for the transfer thing, I can't imagine there would be a problem legally or financially. If you'd like, I can come up with a worksheet showing who is currently maintaining responsibility for what (i.e., to show that you're paying the $400 per month portion of the truck payment)... and then show the difference, which would be the amount being transferred. In reality, the quantity of transfers has been making it difficult for me. Here's an example to illustrate the problem. Imagine that the account starts with $500... and every ODD week there is a transfer OUT of the account for $300... and every EVEN week is a transfer INTO the account for $200... here is how it looks:

week #: new balance (transaction)
0: $500 (starting balance)
1: $200 (after $300 deduction)
2: $400 (after $200 increase)
3: $100 (after $300 deduction)
4: $300 (after $200 increase)
5: $0 (after $300 deduction)
6: $200 (after $200 increase)
7: -$100 (after $300 deduction)
8: $100 (after $200 increase)
9: -$200 (after $300 deduction)
10: $0 (after $200 increase)
11: -$300 (after $300 deduction)
12: -$100 (after $200 increase)

As you can see, in that example, the account went from positive to negative... then back to positive... then back to negative... then back to positive (well, $0... but, to a bank, this is positive)... then back to negative. Every transition from positive to negative incurs all sorts of fees, worsening the situation. Also, as you can see, the outlook is sporadic. already, by week 5, there are signs of an empty account. Attempting to "plan ahead" financially is virtually impossible, because when planning ahead you always have to compare to the worst-case scenario... in this case, it's the $0 balance in week 5. Now, let's look at the scenario of combining these... instead of transfering $300 OUT OF and $200 INTO... we will just transfer $100 OUT OF... and because there is only one transfer, there is no need to have a transfer during every week... only every other week. Here is the result:

week #: new balance (transaction)
0: $500 (starting balance)
1: $400 (after $100 deduction)
2: $400
3: $300 (after $100 deduction)
4: $300
5: $200 (after $100 deduction)
6: $200
7: $100 (after $100 deduction)
8: $100
9: $0 (after $100 deduction)
10: $0
11: -$100 (after $100 deduction)
12: -$100

As you can see, the account only goes from being positive to negative ONCE... therefore, much fewer bank fees. Also, the account balance is not sporadic and is much more predictable. Instead of bouncing up and down, it is simply slowly decreasing. Finally, the worst-case scenario is when it reaches a $0 balance in week 9... which makes it much easier to plan ahead than if the worst-case scenario was a $0 balance in only week 5. Of course, the BIGGER picture is the SAME. By week 12, the account is still negative $100 in BOTH examples. No magic was done to make money out of nothing. It was simply careful planning to stabilize the flow of money so that it is much more manageable. Please forgive my lengthy explanation... I just thought it might help you to see the amount of work and planning I regularly put into handling the finances. When handled poorly, the situation can become much more dire than it has to be... when handled wisely, a bad situation can be made better without necessarily increasing income or decreasing expenses. I personally call this "juggling the money." Of course, if the current expenses are greater than the current income, no amount of juggling or managing will solve the bigger picture... it can only make the shorter term less painful. In our case, expenses DO outweigh income... so, we're going to have to look at places to trim spending. I've been thinking of starting at the water delivery (even though they aren't delivering water much anymore, we're still paying $10 per month plus taxes and fees for the rental of the cooler.)

As for the church thing, that's cool... I was just trying to help out. I didn't like the sound of you skipping out on church just because DS was a handful. I do find it strange, though, that you think there is such a huge difference between my church (which is a standard Christian community church) and the Catholic church. The only real differences are that the Catholic church prides itself more in its traditions and the Pope rather than simply the Bible itself, though they are influenced by the Bible. My church simply focuses less on traditions (though they do still do communion and the like) and the new decrees of the Pope and focus more on the content of the Bible. Of course, this line is becoming more fuzzy these days. The previous Pope and the new Pope have both showed interest in uniting all of the Christian churches of the world rather than creating a divide among fellow Christians. And even at my church, the pastor asked us to pray for the previous Pope... and pray for those who made the decision for choosing a new Pope... and praised the new Pope... and so on. Whether terms like "Protestant" or "Catholic" are thrown around, we are all "Christians" nonetheless. We all believe that there is a God... and that his only son (Jesus) died on the cross for our sins. And that one day, Jesus will return. All Christian religions teach humility... praising God/Jesus... being kind to one another... being selfless... etc, etc, etc... So, it would only be best that we rejoice in our common goals and beliefs rather than dividing ourselves among the differences in how or where we worship.

Lastly, I suppose our opinions slightly differ when it comes to introducing DS to the world. I have been reading a lot on the subject and have also been speaking with various professionals. While all agree that slow transitions are best for a child his age in order to make him feel safe, very few believe it needs to be at this slow of a pace, or at this level of protection. In fact, there has been a unanimous agreement that requiring you to "supervise" my time with AJ will only give DS the impression that it is not safe to be alone with Daddy. That it is only safe to be alone with Daddy when Mommy is around. This is only further enhanced by the fact that he runs to you every 15 minutes or so, to reassure himself that Mommy is still around to protect him. This is not a legitimate fear, but one that is born to the unusual circumstances that has been created through the current sense of over-protection.

I have talked to a lawyer, a therapist, and a Christian marriage counselor (with 22 years of experience.) All were completely appalled that you are currently insisting that my visitation be supervised, or that you are controlling the environment and circumstances. They only expect such cases when the father has been physically abusive to the child, which I have not been. Moreso, they have also been unanimously dumbfounded in my own lack of boundaries. This has subsequently lead to me learning about boundaries, and the fact that I didn't enforce any of my own. As a result, it opened the door to you crossing any of the boundaries I have ever had... through no fault of your own. It was my lack of enforcing these boundaries that sent the signal to you that "it's ok to cross these boundaries."

Of course, in my opinion, I have always felt that if I let people walk all over my boundaries, I am simply making a sacrifice for their sake... allowing others to be happy, even if it is at my own expense. I felt it was un-Christian-like to have strong boundaries that you don't let others cross. Now, however, I have been reading a lot of literature regarding boundaries... and I am specifically choosing books from the Religious/Christian section, so that I can be assured that I am not enforcing boundaries at the expense of my morals. In fact, it is often stated that if you don't enforce boundaries, you not only hurt yourself... but you also hurt others... because you give them a false representation of yourself. You let them know, "it's ok... I'm ok with this..." and then, when they cross that line, and you're not "ok"... there is an unexpected reaction, leaving all parties confused and hurt. I still have a long way to go regarding boundaries... I am trying to correct a lifelong way of thinking. It's not easy.

At this point, I would like to apologize for my lack of boundaries through our marriage. I'm afraid, as a result, you may have been sent mixed signals. To give you an idea... I was not ok with all of the Beanie Babies you had been purchasing. Instead of enforcing this boundary, I simply made a sacrifice. I wanted you to be happy. You showed joy and excitement when you found a new Beanie Baby. I did not want to be the person responsible for crushing that joy. So, at the expense of our financial future, I just caved in each time and so, "no, it's ok... get it... it's what you want..." Deep inside my mind, I was simply thinking to myself, "I'll just have to find a way to make more money... or, perhaps, I can spend less on myself. I was also not ok with all of the dining out we did. You expressed how you didn't want to cook from being too tired, or not being in the mood. I didn't want to cause friction or seem controlling, so I caved in each time. We ate out very often. As a result, this caused a financial burden which I mostly took upon myself. I was also not ok with having as many animals as we did. Don't get me wrong... I LOVE all of our pets... very much. However, with pets comes a fairly significant amount of responsibility... time... money... patience. In hopes of not being the "bad guy," however, I simply shrugged and "let things be."

I was ok with you going to the strip club once... maybe twice... however, I was not ok with you going to the strip club on an almost daily basis... and I was especially not happy with the fact that you were even providing our cash to your friends for the strippers. I was also not happy with the fact that you stayed out all night that one night and didn't call me until 2am or 3am while I was at home worried sick. I think that was one of the few times I actually displayed my boundary (specifically because I caught you in a lie, which is a boundary I always enforced strongly.) That led to a huge discussion between us, and I had thought we had made a breakthrough... but, once again, I eventually stopped enforcing my boundaries. I was also not ok with the amount of time you spent "helping" your family. I mean, certainly they need help in their current state... but, 4 or 5 or 6 years ago, you were there almost every day "visiting." And were often put to work cleaning or doing the dishes or helping with cooking. Then, at home, you'd be sick of it all and wouldn't clean or cook or help. Maybe your family needed your help... but I also needed your help. Your family, however, did a much better job at enforcing their boundaries than I ever did. This was my fault.

I hope this doesn't sound like a "rant session" where I am blaming you for anything. It is not intended to be. I am simply trying to make it known that I am sorry for sending mixed signals in the past, and not making my boundaries clear. I was always wishy-washy, hoping to make sure you were happy... and that I didn't seem controlling... but this only resulted in my boundaried being regularly crossed, leaving me with feelings that you were being controlling. It also resulted in me being overworked by trying to handle the grocery shopping (online), the finances, the taking care of the pets, and so on and so forth. I was absolutely and positively exhausted and, as a result, you found someone who was less exhausted... had fewer responsibilities... and, therefore, was able to spend more quality time with you, making you feel more cherished. I am not saying that what you did was ok. That was definitely a boundary of mine that you crossed that I can never forget. I forgive you for your actions. Humans aren't perfect, and we make mistakes. God forgives us when we take responsibility for our mistakes and genuinely ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness, however, does not change my distrust of you. I trust you with DS because you are an excellent mother. I cannot, however, trust you with my heart. I can be civil and I can be friendly and I can be fair... but I can't open up to you any more than that. As a result, I need to start re-enforcing my boundaries. The more I let you walk all over me, the more I send the signal that "it's ok to treat me this way", and it's not fair to me... and it's not fair to you.

With that being said, here are the current boundaries you are treading on that I need to clarify that I will no longer tolerate. I am not ok with your insistence that my visitation with AJ be supervised or otherwise managed and directed by you. If I want to take DS to the park for an hour or two without your presence, it is my perogative. If I want to go shopping with DS for an hour or two without your presence, it should be my right. If I am busy and am only able to spend 1/2 hour or an hour with DS on a given day, that should be respected. I shouldn't have to argue with you each time about how you think I should spend more time with him during that particular visit. I am still the one making the large majority of the money and I am still the one handling the larger significance of the expenses. As a result, I am more capable of spending a little bit of time with DS on a more frequent basis than spending a lot more time on a less frequent basis.

Also, I am not ok with only spending time with DS only at your convenience. You planned this trip to Chicago or wherever it is. Then, in a very disrespectful manner, you tried every other resource for babysitting (your mother... your sister...etc...) before seeing if Daddy and DS would like to spend more time together during that week. That was severely disrespectful to me. It says to me that you were willing to have DS spend overnight visits for a week with other members of your family before considering his own father. What's worse, is when you don't "need" a babysitter, you have every excuse in the book why it's not the right time for overnight visits. While I agree that there is no need to rush overnight visits, it makes no sense that when attempting overnight visits, you go to other family members before me. If I had primary custody of DS, I would never have been that disrespectful of you. In fact, I am not ok and was never ok with the fact that you became the primary caregiver of DS. You were the one who cheated on me before there was ever any talk of separation. I will admit, when you first came to me and told me you didn't love me anymore, I should have shown my disappointment... my disapproval. I should have insisted at that moment, either we start seeing a counselor now, or we make the arrangements to get a divorce. Maybe that would have "woken you up"... or, if not, would have made things seem much more "normal." Instead, I swallowed my pride... I made the sacrifice... and I respected your feelings and your decisions... and I allowed all of the pain and hurt I was feeling at the time fester inside of me. I allowed you to cross that final boundary... not because I wanted it to happen... but because I wanted you to love me and respect me out of your own free will... not out of fear of being rejected by me. You were so afraid of being rejected by OW that you failed to realize that you were rejecting me... and that this was not a boundary of mine that I was going to let you stomp all over.

Because you were hurt by OM... and because you were overwhelmed by me calling an end to the marriage... I didn't want to worsen your pain. So, I made the sacrifice to allow you to be the primary caregiver of DS. And as a result, you have used this against me. You are now holding him hostage, and are using exaggerated advice to do so. Slowly introducing a child to new things is always good advice... but there is such a thing as too slow. Toni, we have been separated for nearly 10 months and you are still treating me as if I am a stranger in AJ's life who is not to be trusted. A new daycare environment, for example, can be scary for young children. Often, to ease the worry, the parent will visit with the daycare person a few times during the first week or two prior to utilizing the new daycare in full force. And, during the next few weeks the mother may visit during lunch to assure the child that he was not abandoned to the new environment. Now, this is when dealing with strangers, which would be the case in a new daycare environment, for example... or a school. I am not a stranger to DS. I am his father. And I have been trying to be there for him, but you have been placing hurdles that I do not agree with. The only reason you have continued to "win" is not because I agree with it all, but because I have not been enforcing my own boundaries.

Ten months is a ridiculous amount of time to keep insisting that my visitation be supervised only. It should never have happened for 1 month, let alone 10 months. You have also continued to drag me along, changing your mind... changing the rules... coming up with new excuses... new theories... new opinions... new reasons... etc... First, you were concerned that if you left DS with me without supervision, that he would think you were abandoning him... yet, this happens every day with daycare and all other situations where you need to leave DS with someone else while you take care of your responsibilities. Then, you expressed concern about DS meeting OW. First, you said you need to wait until we had been separated for 6 months. Then, you changed the rules so that it wouldn't happen until OW and I had been together for at least 6 months, to indicate something more serious. Then, you started making the arrangements regarding how this could take place. Next, you completely did a 180 and reversed your commitments. Then, with more time, you reaffirmed your commitments because you had exhausted all other forms of babysitting situations for your trip. And I really appreciated that first step you made, and the meeting which took place at the park. However, now that your trip is cancelled, you are completely backing down from your commitment. You went from asking me to provide you with more times of availability to telling me that you think we need to take this more slowly. This is really starting to get ridiculous. You are specifically targetting me... and you are specifically targetting OW... and I really don't like it. I think it is time that you stop this charade. I can't let you keep crossing my boundaries like this.

And, do you know how I was able to get you the money for daycare this last time? I borrowed the $300 from OW. So, before you go painting the whole world as a bad place that is just out to get you... so that you have to keep proactively defending yourself against the whole world... try to have a broader perspective... and realize that we are all in this together. We have all made mistakes... and we are all facing the consequences of our mistakes... we all have our problems... and struggles... and people who have hurt us... and we all need to be forgiven for our trespasses... and we all need to forgive those who have trespassed against us... maybe some of us get angry when the car in front of us cuts us off... and maybe some of us get angry when we need to change lanes and the car behind us isn't giving us enough room... each of these reasonable and understandable situations result in anger on both sides... neither driver meant harm... they're simply trying to travel the path they are following... and sometimes, these paths cross too closely and everyone is angry at everyone else... and quite a bit of the reason is the lack of communication... the only forms of communication in a vehicle are the horn, and hand signals... and both of these are usually very unfavorable.

We all need to work together... and that often means swallowing our pride and taking risks or making sacrifices. I have made many sacrifices... and taken many risks... and continue to do so... with finances and everything else... and I will continue to do so, but only if I can see the respect being reciprocated in kind. I really appreciate the steps you have taken recently, but I need you to keep taking these steps and not recede back into your shell. I know I may be asking you to "stick your neck out"... and it may be scary... or simply hurt your pride... but this is part of parenting... and it is a part of the situation we have now found ourselves in. Creating these overly-exaggerated rules to protect DS is only going to result in an over-protection... to the point that he will never be willing to take risks... trust people... or live his childhood to its fullest potential. I need to be involved in his life, and that means that you need to trust me with decisions. Would you please do that for me? Or for DS? DS is already 10% into his childhood (assuming adulthood at 18)... if you keep postponing progress... and delaying progress... and backing down from progress... because of pride... or because you think there is going to be some form of dire consequences... the dire consequences may very well come as a result of you constantly trying to "protect" him from his own father.

Please, if there is something serious that you think you need to protect him from, let me know... if you're just asking out of fear... or are exaggerating someone else's advice or suggestions, I ask you to please listen to reason. I am not making unreasonable requests. I am simply insisting that you allow me to be his father rather than some sort of stranger. Please.

In any case, here are some of the materials I have been reading... there is one on Boundaries (can't remember the name of it, but it's in the Religion/Christianity section)... I have the follow-up book to that other one we read during DS's first year... this is the one for Toddlers... and it actually discusses divorce and other love interests... and while it does suggest slow transitions, it does not suggest insanely dragged out transitions... I also have The Purpose Driven Life... and there is another book about 7 ways to happiness (or something like that)... I've been thinking about another book that is called something like The 7 Habits of Successful People (there is a follow up called The 8th Habit)... it seems to focus on principles of Christianity. Then, there are various resources online... here is one in particular about separation and other love interests

http://www.scholastic.com/earlylearner/experts/behavior/0_2_dadnewgirlfriend.htm

Again, while it suggests moderation, it does not suggest shielding for months at a time... you seem to have this misconception that when the time comes where DS, I, and OW spend any amount of time together with you not around, that I am simply going to allow her to replace you. I never want his biological parents to be replaced... not you... and not me... Growing up, I personally refused to call my step dads "dad" and always regarding my biological father as "dad"... and the same goes for my mom... I always called SM "her name" and never mom... I wasn't trying to be disrespectful... this was simply a "boundary" of mine. I would expect the same from AJ... from as early as his current age to as late as his teenager years... or even adulthood. SIHW, you have to trust me to know where these lines are... and that I will act appropriately to enforce these boundaries. I know I haven't been a good role-model when it comes to boundaries during our marriage... but, I am learning now... and I am making progress. Maybe you might not like the way I enforce my boundaries when it comes to you crossing them... but I can't pick and choose who I allow to cross my boundaries and who I don't. I am enforcing these boundaries now... as an individual... and as a father... I am not going to play favorites... or try to confuse DS or bias his opinions... I am hoping to be as good as a father as I can muster... and as good of a friend to you as I can... but I cannot possibly accomplish this if you don't let me. By constantly crossing my boundaries, and rejecting my enforcement of them, you are preventing me from being a true father to DS and a true friend to you. Please work WITH me on this... not just AGAINST me.


I am so frustrated now...please all i need your responses.

then i got a second email:

These were some other online materials I have come across over time. I added some notes to some of them that I think are really relevant. These focus primarily on the affect of divorce on children... in our case, the "Infant" rules would apply because we actually separated (were no longer living together) before DS turned 1.

http://www.theparentreport.com/resources/ages/infant/family_life/488.html
http://missourifamilies.org/features/divorcearticles/divorcefeature20.htm
http://articles.worldvillage.com/what_di..._an_infant.html
http://sheknows.com/about/look/2053.htm
http://www.fairview.org/healthlibrary/content/pa_divintod_pep.htm
http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_divorce_pep.htm

http://bbs.babycenter.com/board/baby/postpartumsex/10517/thread/2027274
(make note that this one talks about a situation where the ex-husband and ex-wife [with divorce still pending] exchange their children at a police station with a police officer present, largely due to the ex-husband... and yet, he has the kids for 3 hours every Thursday, and has the children ever other weekend... one child for 1 night, the other child for 2 nights... regardless of the bad picture painted of this guy, it still sounds like they have reached more of an amiacable situation than you have allowed for us... which is why I keep feeling like you are treating me MORE like a criminal, and LESS like DS's father... in another case, with filed paperwork and all, the father has the children for one week per month... and the children are 1 and 2 1/2... I'm not suggesting something that drastic, unless you agree with it, but I am asking for something more fair than what you are currently "allowing")

http://bbs.babycenter.com/board/baby/postpartumsex/10517/thread/2015246
http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,4022,00.html
(This last one illustrates the very reason I acted as quickly as I did when I finally saw that our marriage was over... because if I had waited until DS was 2, he would be at the maturity level where he would blame himself... leading to much more significant psychological problems than if we had separated when he was too young to understand what was going on... and I also distanced myself from you as much as I did because, plain and simply, we couldn't get along anymore... we argued and shouted constantly... and if anything was going to affect DS, THIS would be it... and with you insisting that you be the one supervising my visitation with DS, it forced me into virtually ignoring you... because I wanted to be with DS... but I didn't want to argue with you in front of him... yet you insisted that if I visit DS, that you be present... so my only option was to avoid any communication with you while I visited with him... but there were still feelings of resentfulness, so I needed to limit my time with you... because, with time, arguments happened anyway... which, in turn, limited my time with DS... somewhere down the line you interpretted this into meaning I didn't want to spend time with DS. Or, you try to over simplify the situation in your favor by saying something similar to, "If you really loved DS, you'd get over your issues with me and would just visit him more often and get along with me." Well, this could easily be countered with, "If you really loved DS, you'd get over your issues with our separation and would let me visit with DS unsupervised." ... we are both victims of a situation that neither of us ever wanted to be in... pointing fingers in any direction, no matter how justified it may seem, is not helpful for either of us, especially not DS... at some point you have to let go of your over-simplication of the situation, and avoid your exaggerated sense of how you need to protect DS from me... and we need to come to a fair solution for everyone, even if it means we're not exactly happy about it...)


This isn't about who loves DS more... or who is doing more or less for DS... or who was at fault that led to our separation... it's about forgetting all of that... and simply focusing on giving DS reasonable time and attention from both of us, without imposing insane rules on each other... I need to be the father than I am and can be, not the father you're trying to make me into... you be DS's mother, and I'll be DS's father... that doesn't make you my mother, or my guardian, or any form of controlling entity over me... I don't do this to you... why can't you treat me the same?

Anyway, I'm finished for now... that's what has been on my mind for 10+ months... :-/



I like how the advice i've gotten from professionals and the people here is "over exahgerated".

I am seriously freaking out he's done all this work to read up on stuff....and get materials....I can't loose my baby....I don't want to end up with him controling my life controling where we go or what we do....I don't want him to take my Last baby I have left and turn him from me. My son is my life and the last little light I have left. he has tried to push OW into his life from day 1. somebody slap me please do something to stop the madness and these worrisome tears i cry.

My last post poofed so here it comes again......

Your WS needs to borrow even more $$$ from the OW, since that is where he keeps losing his pants. Mine was in a similar predicament and the OW offered him $$. First I was insulted but later, I told him (as I kicked him out the door):

Orchid: 'if the OW is as rich as you both claim, then go borrow what we are worth. BTW WS what do you think your family is worth?'

WS: ....I think my family is priceless.

Orchid: Yea well that sounds good but put a ## on it, 1 mil?

WS: More than that.

Orchid: OK well you've lost your pants for less than that so I will settle for 1 million.

WS: Where am I going to get that kind of $$?

Orchid: From your $$ bags OW. Thought you both bragged about how much she had? Aren't you worth at least 1 mil?

WS: She isn't that rich.

Orchid: Oh.... well ok 500k. I am taking a big cut here. You are saying we are worth only 1/2 mil.

WS: She doesn't even have that much.

Orchid: Ok, 250K, geeze, she isn't quite as rich sounding anymore.

WS: Nope that's too much.

Orchid: Well you sure don't think much of us. Can't she at least spare 100K? What is rich to her anyways? She sounds kinda poor to me. Geeze, you should have gotten one with real $$.

WS: She does have $$ just not that much.

Orchid: Well she could sell her home after all aren't you worth at least that?

WS: No, I am not worth anything.

Orchid: well maybe now but you used t/b.

Ws (looking quite dejected): Yea I know.

Orchid: Well this is a discussion about $$ and not emotions, so how much can Ms. Not much $$ bags really give?
My lowest is $87k.

WS: Why?

Orchid: WEll with the bills and my misery, that's a bargain. After all we were suppose t/b worth more than a million, right?

WS: I don't think she can do that.

Orchid: Of course she can, she refied her home a few months ago remember?

WS: How did you know that?

Orchid: Someone must be talking in his or her sleep. LOL!!!
Bottom line is she has the $$ or did you spend it?

WS: I did not spend her $$.

Orchid: Oh ok, well you still owe me a bunch so go figure out when you can get me what you owe. (pushed him out the door, I was done talking and he was in my home).

Later WS came back and said OW offered to give some $$ but he refused. I said what??!?!? You refused so I have to suffer? No way....

WS: I don't want to be in debt to the OW.

Orchid: But you are already in debt to me and you keep losing your clothes at the OWs house so what's a few bucks to cover all those naked parts?

WS: That's mean, you know I don't want to have anything she can hold over me.

Orchid: Then you'd better stop losing your clothes over there. I don't have the energy to wonder about where you get your $$, just get me what you are suppose to get me. Don't care how you do it. You are not a part of this family right now. I can't spend time worrying about you as if you are a valuable family member. I have enough worries with those who do live in this home.

Ws: Don't you want me t/b home?

Orchid: Not while you owe me $$ and keep losing your pants in another city. bye.

WS: (hangs head down and leaves).

This really happened.

L.

i just have to ..."bump"

I'm not all that familliar with your situation. Why is it that he has supervised visits?

dewt

Well, if you want to strengthen your case that your child not be introduced to OW ... and if this is to be settled in the courts the way you want it to come out.... you better be sure you stop introducing your child to your boyfriend .... at least until your divorce is final.

It seems unlikely you will be able to enforce this "no OP with the child" boundary with your husband when you violate this very rule yourself.

Stop doing this yourself and get this written in the settlement.

Good luck.

Pep

Boyfriend is no longer here....he moved to home to help his family out of state...so DS has no contact with him and DS met him once...in a neutral setting.Same rules applied a park where DS would be comfortable...no affections allowed during DS's presence and letting DS move at his own pace. WH had supervised visit because I do not trust him...he's lied...stolen...cheated....lost his mind and at one point was threatening suicide....even once while our son was sleeping in the next room...he told me it would be ok if DS woke up i would be back from my class in a couple of hours....He no longer threatens suicide.....But I still do not trust this man...he has abandoned me and left me through some of the hardest and harshest things I have ever delt with...and that includes during our marriage. I have yelled at him for months to set a visitation schedule...he has never come to me to do it....I waited and waited for him on this stupid visitation with OW...I eventually had to say hey....if you want this to happen get off your a$$ and give me some times....all of a sudden I "asked" to do it...WTF....no I was giving into his demands and sick of waiting around for him to follow through. I have simply asked he spend more time to solidify his relationship with his son before really including OW....he has been pushing and trying to get her for visits since day one....I told him I just thought an occasional visit was ok but not EVERY time he sees his father. I basically want him to get a better relationship with his son...and once that happens...then we can initiate a few more visits...then I got that 4 page long email response. I in no manner think this is moving too slow....I think if he is allowed to rush this he WILL hurt our son...and I have been doing my damndest to keep that from happening.

Sounded like a buttload of gibberish to me....

Maybe I'm just immuned to "WS Speak"

Do what you think is right SIHW, because you will have to answer for it...WS won't

It will never be his fault...but you already knew that

Prayers to you

Your Friend
RebornMan

yeah I am sure his "lack" of money isn't because he spends it on bills. see I was having lunch with my mother today when guess who strolls into the restaurant hand in hand...yep WH and OW *gag*.....they noticed us as they were sitting down....they inhaled there lunches....then when is was time to leave OW bolted out the front door....whilst WH went to pay the bill*OH thats were his money is going*.....awwww does OW feel shameful....embarrased to be seen in public....oh well she brought it on herself.

This is the biggest bunch of bullcrap I have read in a long time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

It is normal for a child whose dad has left to feel insecure about the remaining parent. His little world has been shattered.

I'm sorry I stopped reading at this point because nothing he says after this means didley squat in my opinion. Your young son should NOT be around his girlfriend/your boyfriend at all at this point. His security needs to be re-established with out strangers confusing the equation.

What happens when he gets used to this scenerio and the next girlfriend/boyfriend comes into the picture and the old flames exit?

WHERE will this childs security lie? How will he know WHO his parents are, that his world is safe?

Surviving, I am so proud of you for trying to normalize your sons life.

I didn't read the others posts yet, but I know you will get sound responses here. (I've got homework to supervise so not enough time, my apologies).

You need to speak to your attorney about this situation. If you restrict reasonable time he can spend with his son, the courts will not look favorably on your situation. The days of adultery being seen as a shameful thing have sadly passed. The courts, as well they should be, are becoming more interested in the welfare of children. Biology supercedes perceived unfitness. How many times have you heard courts taking a child from a perfectly wonderful home and placed the child back into the arms of a drug addicted/criminal/incompetent parent? Would you want to risk losing custody? There is nothing anyone can do to make this child not love you. I think it in your best interest to speak with your attorney. This communication may be presented as a consession and your inability to meet half way will not look good. He'll be seen as the one who is more interested in the welfare of your son and you'll be perceived as possibly revengeful, controlling or unstable.

number one neither of us have attorneys we are THAT poor...and yes I have tried looking for pro bono attornies...but there are none....I called every lawyer I could find and could not find anyone pro bono and they knew of no one who would. not meeting halfway? I have been yelling at this man for months to set a schedule to visit his son....he says ok and never gets back to me about it....this is his response from and email I wrote him where I stated again:

AS far as the park thing....for an introductory occasional visit it went ok as can be expected at this point. In my opinion I would like to say I do think maybe you should have more visits with DS to solidify your relationship before introducing other people to muddle and confuse him....but an occasional visit until it is solidifed is ok but not every time...I think maybe you and I should set aside more time to spend time parenting our child and then schedule our
priorities.


I can't force this man to be a father...in truth this man schedules his life (time with his OW, gaming Dungeons and dragons with his friends) then tries to Squeeze in time for his son...that right there tells you he's not putting DS first...he did that through our ENTIRE marriage....putting other people before his own family it drove me nuts and we did have many arguments about it...but his "friends" were that much more important to him. If anything for the last 10 months I have tried....every time i tried to schedule time for him to visit his son he got mad at me...any time I didn't try to schedule time with his son...he got mad at me...I can only do so much. In the end it was his choice to walk away...and his choice to not visit his son....i am not his secretary (even though I usually have to plan stuff he can never initiate anything). I am not responsible for his actions.

Surving,

Why don't you go down to Friend of the Court and file a child support order. Start getting some of this stuff in the legal system, as far as him abandoning you and DS. Maybe they can help you with getting a visitation schedule set up. Mediation is available through FoC as well, at least here it is.

Don't know what all has been done legally, but I would get the child support order moving along with a court order visitation schedule.

Also start documenting all his bull as far as not sticking to schedule visits.

I feel someone needs to be on your side in the "system" and looking out for your and DS's best interest. I believe that is what Friend of the Court is for in reference to single/separated/divorced parents.

Correct. SISH, just be the most loving, responsible, above board mom to your DS that you can be. Don't argue with WH about time with DS, let him take the initiative. It will be a lot less confusing for such a little guy to have one stable, happy parent than two confused parents, KWIM? No dating for you for a while, let him have some stability first. {{SISH}}

well weaver you see we have a paralegal....who has all the paper work started....and he needs to be paid....I did a duh....WH had mentioned that he had to pay the paralegal and one point and I mistakenly thought he had been paying him....big oops on my part....the man isn't paying any other bills but can take his OW out to lunch weekly and spend money at places like electronics boutique 6-7 times a month....or so I recently found out. My parents have offered to pay the paralegal but WH and I must enter a contract with them to pay it back....I have already ask wh to make some time to discuss this with me....but I have no doubt he will try to schedule it after DS goes to bed...he would rather do it then than taken time away from his friends or OW....but is that my problem no not really. I mean OW is comping at the bit for him to be divorced.....the man has no sense of responsibility....I will keep you guys posted later.