I started this post and rambled on and on about a problem we are having, and I realized that I am just going to come across whiny...so I put it away.

Crap, I started to type again and it all came out again.

So I am going to make this a simple quick question.

Bs's, how did your FWS help you come out a pit where you truely felt you as a BS were a loser, a failure and not worth anything and better off on your own, that absolutely everything, including the A was YOUR fault, even if your FWS told you the A itself was not your fault at all. Was it something they could help you with or did anything they say positive about you make you even worse, as you felt they were lying. Did you come out of it on your own?

-ds

great question. i would love to see some responses to this too!

Whew....I'm going to dig WAY back into my memory for this one.

I KNOW why my H had an A. I take no blame at all for his decision to have an A....but I understand completely why he made the choice.

I can and do recognize that at one point...I was a bad wife.
I forgot how to be a wife after having our 2nd daughter....then 18 months later came our 3rd daughter...and it really went down hill from there.

I had one daughter in Kindergarten a toddler and a newborn. I was in mommy mode. I didn't have time for myelf...let alone my H.

I ignored my H for years.

I never realized this until AFTER my H's A was revealed and we had been seperated twice. It just hit me one day.

I then put myself in my H's shoes....and I realized that I probably would have done the same things if I were to have been in his shoes. One can only ask for something and not get it for so long before they become desperate. This is what happened to my H.

Before my H's A....I had low self esteem, let others walk all over me....couldn't tell ANYONE no......except my H and basically just tried not to make waves with anyone.

I think what pulled me out of it was realizing what a pathetic person I must have looked like. Not only to my H....but to EVERYONE.

I was already losing weight because I couldn't eat. Being only 5'2 and weighing 160 lbs wasn't healthy anyway. I went for almost 3 months like that....and ended up in the hospital....dehydrated, malnourished...and down to 100 lbs.

The Dr looked at me and said....."Lady...what the hell are you doing to yourself? You are a beautiful woman. Don't do this to yourself over a man. ANY man would love to have a blonde haired, blue eyed beauty like you hanging on his arm."

I looked at him and said....."But I don't just want any man."

He then said...."Well...if the one you want...doesn't want you. Then I think he needs to be admitted to the Psych ward."

That has stuck with me over the years because when he was saying it. He meant it. He wasn't just saying it to lift me up or sugar coat me.

That was a turning point for me. Not to focus on my marriage....but to start focusing on me.

Just like the WS....I had to hit rock bottom before I could drag myself back up to the shore.

My WS didn't help me at all. He was still involved with the OW.

I had to take a journey....with my new found knowledge...and find out who I was....and what I really wanted.

One of the other BIG factors in healing for me was my daughters.

I wanted them to see how strong their mom could be. Wanted them to learn that no matter what someone does to you.....you brush yourself off and you keep walking with your head high. You allow people to treat you a way that you want to be treated. You don't allow people to stomp you to the ground without a fight.

I'm a COMPLETELY different person than I used to be. I don't even like the person that I used to be.

I went to church and had a discussion with my spiritual mentor.

That helped.

Pep

This is a big issue. It’s why some BS’s spend years in IC. I think it’s why some can’t recover in the end.

On the surface it looks like simple logic to the BS: I love W –> I want her to be happy -> I have always tried to meet her needs –> I truly thought I was doing OK -> I failed -> OM succeeded without even trying and certainly while not being honest about it –> ergo: I am the ogre in this tale. Take it from there.

I think this is easier to digest if it is broken down into more bite-size chewable pieces.

In my particular case:

Love – I read some of their love letters. (Well, love letters from W to OM. He was very cautious and circumspect, a genuine player.) I have never received anything nearly as lovely from her. Probably never will. He was running a couple other affairs at the same time, so I don’t know how well her letters matched the others he is used to receiving.

SF - W told me I was a lousy lover compared to OM. She claims to not remember saying this now. But I remember each and every time she said it. I will remember for the rest of my life. Actually, it’s probably true. So, for the longest time I felt that I have a problem I can only solve by getting out of her way.

Looks – OM is a steely-eyed, stone-jawed ex fighter pilot. He is still a test pilot. His scarf streams out behind him even in a closed room. Wears $600 sunglasses everywhere he goes. W still says he is one of the most handsome men she has ever met. OK, I get it. Where is my paper bag.

Attachment – W said they had so much in common while all we have in common is DS. And household bills, of course.

Habits – OM could do no wrong, even when he did. Not a single bad habit to be found anywhere. He dresses to the nines even for a gym workout. I watched him, when I confronted him, pick his teeth with studied aplomb. I don’t think, listening to W, he has ever belched, farted or embarrassed himself in public in his life. I bet he looks good wiping his butt.

Conversation – W and OM are both executives in the corporation we work for. They talked work, art, politics, religion (yeah, W thought God meant for them to be together – so heretic am I to come between them), movies, the children, and even sex. All I know anything about is engineering and the daily excitement of raising our son and unclogging toilets. If I didn’t have time to read it in the paper or hear it on NPR I didn’t know it existed.

Toys – OM is wealthy. He has lots of expensive toys and hobbies. W was in awe of what he did with his time and talents in and out of work. I, on the other hand, spent most of my time and talent being a dad and virtually single homemaker.

Recreation – W was able to arrange travel to many cities, including foreign, when he would also be there. Just one example, they made love in Paris and walked along the Seine in the springtime. There is no way I will ever beat that kind of romance in her mind.

I need to stop now. I still feel this way a lot of the time. It's either my all fault, as she maintained for 6 months after D-Day 1 and then again after D-Day 2 (I’m a slow learner, evidently) or I just can’t satisfy her needs no matter how much I try nor how good a person I am. OM is indeed an all around better Man than I am and can ever hope to be. I am not only second choice, I am no choice at all.

Wait, these things are pretty close to the EN template aren't they. Seems BH is lousy at meeting ENs compared to OM. So BH has a choice to make: just leave, get out of the way, and let WW be happy any way they choose; or, BH can improve himself and at least see what level of ENs can be met. The latter takes time, effort and some hope of success. WW has to provide this hope, daily.

I choose the latter. The jury is still out.

And I still wouldn't want to be him.

A

DS, oh how I missed you on your short leave. I read your posts and wish my W was half as empathetic as you are.

This is a good question(s).

For me, my W still hasn't completely helped me with dealing with the feeling of inadaquacy(sp). I still feel like a loser (somedays). I mean, how can I not be, if she did not have the respect or love for me when she chose to cheat on me, how can she now. I don't know if there is really anything she can do to change that feeling.

As for the A, I never really thought It was my fault once I thought about it. I feel it was more a coping mechanism that my W made me feel it was my fault at first. She has since changed her thoughts on this (during MC). I feel it was more my fault for seeing it happen and not be able to stop it.

I wish there was something she could say, but she doesn't. I go more by actions than words right now, words are kindof cheap, She can say anything she wants, but the facts are still the same. So when do I know she is being honest, That is the big question.

I still have thoughts of if I would be better off on my own.I am only 5 mos in right now.

For me, to be more affectionate and open to discussions with honest answers is the best way to help me get through this. Not just turn things around on me. unlike you, my W has not taken real accountability for what happened. Still alot of denial about the sitch leading up to A.

I am working on my part with IC. I have to get through this myself. I am the only one that can do it I think. We all have to take care of ourselves first. We all deal with things differently.

OT.... How is Sprint doing?

HNH

My WH has done nothing to help me regain my self esteem.

To regain myself, I've decided to employ a separated Plan A. I was too depressed, too unstable to do a Plan A with WH degrading me and treating me without respect on a daily basis. I was down, but I know I am not a doormat.

In addtition to this I am in AD therapy with a psychiatrist as well as IC with a marriage counselor.

Actually, I really think that it is up to each of us to work on our self esteem, that is not something that our partners can do for us. What I do hope for one day, is that WH will help heal my broken heart and rebuild trust in our marriage.

Actually, I think my low self esteem was one of the things that helped create an environment that made my WH's A possible. That is also what kept me from meeting some of his EN.

Now I am working hard on myself. If I feel good about myself, I am going to be able to do a better job looking after my H and my children.

WH's affair was not about the OW being better; she's not, not in any way. She is not more beautiful, talented, educated, intelligent, or interesting. She has two kids, one severely impaired, that are not WH´s children. I am the mother of his 2 happy, healthy children. We have a history of 18 years together; 15 of those very happy, at least for me. We share the same interests. We built a house together. His family adores me and they all live in our neighborhood. The OW is younger. She doesn't expect him to pull his weight around the house and with the kids. She never criticizes him or makes demands: I do and I am not always very diplomatic about it either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. He is her boss; she is not his equal.

Our problems began as our youngest started school and I began to work more...and enjoyed some success outside the home. Its a classic cliché, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Great answers on this thread to help new FWS's on here help their BS's

Great question. I can say I NEVER had self-esteem issues until the A. This part was and is so hard for me to overcome.

My biggest answer is antiDs. The week I was switching to new ones, I went into a deep depression and had the worst self-esteem and self-pity. As soon as they kicked in, I started feeling a lot better about myself.

Next answer....yes, the FWS has to be complimentary and notice ANY and EVERYTHING about the BS, the way we dress, our hair, our attitude, etc., etc. and let us know often!!!

Another thing that really helps me is when I get compliments from people just in my everyday life that don't know about the A. I know this is not something you can make somebody do. But when someone compliments me, it really boosts my self-esteem (male or female).

Also, getting compliments from family and friends is HUGE!! My brothers know what I'm going through and they will always say small comments about how pretty I am or I wouldn't have any problem finding another guy as far as my looks go. Also, friends that never really mentioned they thought I was pretty have started telling me without them knowing about my self-esteem issues.

BS's really need compliments from every angle. That is what really helps me.

I hope that helps. I know some of my answers are something that no one can plan, but it is what is working for me.

I never felt the loser...always thought WH was, with his cheating, he was looking for something he always has at home

This was a post from over a year ago - me not knowing that my H was actually in an affair during this time...and why nothing I was doing was working....BUT it had such GOOD responses I wanted to bump it for others! GREAT response Noodle <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm in a bit of a different situation being a FWH and now a BS...still a BS.

During my A I was in many ways still very caring and loving towards my W. I obviously had to be dishonest to have an A, but dishonesty was never my thing and I told her about a week after it went from 'friends' to more, and only days after it became an actual PA. At the same time, I said and did many very hurtful things because of the fog I was in...I seriously cannot believe that I, well, believed some of the things that I was writing in my journal and then telling my wife. What comes around goes around... it hurts me now to think of how deep I must have dug the knife in. And the whole time I would tell her things calmly, not in an attacking fashion; I can see how screaming an insult hurts, but you can chalk that up to anger...what do you do when the one you love tells you horrid things calmly just to 'inform' you and answer your questions!!??

Now that I've woken up I want to hold her, calm her, cry with her, and do everything to make her feel better and begin to heal the wounds...but that is what her A is for and why she holds on to it, thus she won't let me help or care for her at the moment.

I can only hope that we can be mutually supportive and caring after her A is over and we have begun to restore our marriage...to IMPROVE our marriage.

Oddly, even with all the pain, I'm happy (and lucky!) to say that my self-esteem was never compromised. I have the exact opposite situation with her OM as to what Aphelion had...he is a nobody and can't compare to me in anyway. Arrogant, sure, but I don't care, he is trash compared to me! =)

And my FOW is trash compared to my wife...recent events have made this even more clear.

To all others who are still BS's like I, I don't see how any OP could ever be better than any BS! On the surface it may seem like it, but deeper down it takes one massive character flaw to knowingly get involved with someone who is married, or in any serious committed relationship for that matter. I just wish that they can grow up in time...even though I won't want to talk to either my FOW or my WW's OM no matter how much they grow, repent, or whatever!

I just thought of something I wanted to share, MAYBE it will help some others out there.

Ironically, whenever I feel like everything is over and my W really doesn't want anything to do with me and never will I just think back to...can you guess it?...my A and it gives me hope.

I actually was 100% certain for a while that 1) I didn't love my wife and NEVER really did; 2) the OW was the most amazing thing I had ever found and I would never find anyone as incredible again.

Now I am 1000% (yes, three 0s) certain that the woman I married is the only one I could ever love this much (even comparing to the feelings for the OW), and that I will never find anyone like her again...so I've got to hold on and fight. This demon that she transforms into on occasion is NOT her; I know her too well to fall for that!

This is the strongest and the weakest I have ever been in my life.

Strong- I wrote this in May of 2005 - over a year ago. May 25...it was 4 days before I discovered my husband was in an affair and 1 week before he left me for OW. I was the FWS who also became a BS. We recovered for a second time in July 2005...and here we are - June 2006 doing really good...hang in there!

The overall theory of MB is that affairs are caused by one spouse's failure to meet the other spouse's emotional needs. That is probably true in 95% of affairs, but not all. I certainly have known men who love their wives, claim they are happily married, couldn't wish for anyone better, but still can't resist fooling around on the side with any cute gal that offers herself up.

Why do they do this? I've asked, and the answers vary. They say things like, "What's the harm if nobody finds out?" or "Variety is the spice of life."

I'm convinced that some affairs are self-esteem issues. If you don't love yourself, how would you possibly respect anyone else who loves you? Consequently you are constantly moving into new relationships to find someone who desires you without actually loving you. Once you are certain that they really do love you, you dump them and go looking for the next relationship.

Why is it that so many people start talking about meeting emotional needs AFTER the discovery of the affair? Why don't spouses who feel neglected in marriage talk it over first before taking that step over the line? Maybe they don't even know their needs aren't being met. Maybe they just don't have the same level of commitment to marriage that you do. Maybe they're more selfish. Maybe society has insidiously communicated the message to many through books, TV, and movies that if you aren't passionate about your spouse, something must be wrong and you need to find someone else.

Dorry

I am going to answer this question from a different point of view. When I first started MC with my FWW I was getting very agitated about the way she was acting as far as what she was doing to help me feel better. He told me to focus on what she did that made me feel bad about myself. His point was that no matter what she did in a positive manner (ie complements etc.) as long as she continued doing things that bothered me the positives would never outweigh the negatives.

For instance my FWW liked to spend money and treat herself very well. When she came back we were beyond broke. I told her about the situation but she kept spending money anyway. No matter what she said about being remorseful or being sorry it didn't seem that way because she refused to stop spending money. No matter what compliments she gave me all I could think was that he was worth not shopping and buying yourself new stuff because you had to save your money so you could go out with him. With me you would rather have new clothes then to go out with me.

My FWW also liked to flirt with other men. That was certainly unacceptable to me after the A. Heck it was unacceptable for me before the A. Every time she did it made me feel like she was unremorsefull or she didn't care about me or my feelings.

I know they would be called lovebusters here but really they outweighed any little thing she did.

Once you know what not to do you should make an extreme effort not to do those things. Remember what you did before the A might not have bothered your BS but it might now.

After you have found out what not to do listen closely to your BS. We in most cases will tell you what we want. For me I said I like getting little cards and I like it when you get dressed up in lingerie. If your BS makes suggestions like these then do them. Do not make excuses or tell them it is ridiculous or anything like that just do it and do it often.

The other point my MC made which is really the EN thing is that sometimes people do something they think is great and the other person could care less. For instance I would buy my FWW wife flowers. Thought I was getting points until she told me she would rather get her nails done then get flowers. Same cost but flowers are not important to her. Now instead of flowers she gets Gift Certificates to a nail salon.

Make extreme efforts to do what your FWS asks you to do and not to do what they have asked you not to do.

If the request is something you are opposed to let them no that without belittling their request. If they are asking you to humiliate yourself that is not acceptable. But if what they are asking is reasonable you should do them and smile while you are doing it.

I appreciate the points of view - once again - this is no longer for me - but for new FWS coming to the boards...my question was over a year ago <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And we are a long way from this point now...

Dorry:
Thank you. =)

Hiker45:

Both my wife and I would talk sometimes about how something is missing, but never could we really identify it. Neither of us really expected this though. But, there is something I found in my journal which is revealing...this is the ENTIRE (except one small paragraph that I feel is too personal) entry in my journal the day AFTER I began talking with my now FOW, and yes, I had cheating on the mind the moment I spoke with her...the entry:

"I am attracted to others because something is lacking in our relationship. But what, exactly?
"....
"Whatever it is, it lies in the aspects. I am searching for and attracted to other aspects of other women. I need to discover what these are and see if they can be brought into our relationship and all should be well.
"Desire is that which moves and motivates; it is the lack of something necessary that forces us into a ceaseless searching for it. Though we also wish to obtain it, we never wish to completely possess and become it, for this would be death.
"Whatever one searches for, does, etc. is indicative of what they do not contain in and of themselves."

ENs aren't inherent, you need others for them!