ss:

Flagstaff.

I like San Diego, but I HATE the traffic there (especially around where I'd be working - 6 and 8-lane SURFACE streets with LONG traffic lights every 50 feet or so!). A lot like south Orange County.

Flagstaff has traffic problems as well. Getting from south of the tracks (where most of the housing is) 2 the north (where the job is) can take a long time waiting at lights. I'd prefer living north of town, but most places are very rural on that side, and not very near work.

-ol' 2long

The retainer for my attorney (I live in Calif)was $6000. Because he is representing both of us he is certain it will be less than the retainer fee to finish our D. Sounds like he is in the right ball park.

2Long,

I don't understand the deal that you and your w have proposed for her education.

I assumed what you were talking about is some kind of extra payment, like temporary support for her to finish her PhD. I don't know why you would agree to that, but why do you connect that to living togehter for 3 more years - or staying married until she finishes.

Did I miss something?

-AD

In our state, the attorney cannot represent both of us. I'm surprised that can happen anywhere. We are doing what is called an "uncontested D".

It is explicitly noted in the papers that one of us is unrepresented and agrees to be unrepresented (since he cannot represent both of us).

Are there any poor people in CA? Do they ever get D'ed? or do they just move on and forget about it - maybe skip marriage altogether?

I should note that our(my) attorney is not the cheapest. There is one lawyer who does it for $250. A couple can meet him in his office for 2 hours and when you leave, you will be D'ed in 30 days. That guy files in a county in which nobody has to go to court - not even the attourney. He just mails the stuff to the judge!

-AD

LOL, AD you can use cheaper sources but when you have property and children that can be very complicated and expensive. My attorney is technically mine however he is handling the whole D process because my H met him, trusts him, trusts me and we are not fighting over "stuff" or custody etc. We are being quite civilized. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

BTW, the is a 6 month waiting period before a D is final here.

**edited to add** my attorney is 250.00 per hour but charges in 10 min increments. He is reasonable by most standards.

AD:

Well, my W might expect us 2 live 2gether in the house for an extended period, but I can't imagine doing it myself.

She did sacrifice earning potential for a few years there while I was in school. ...of course, she was in school at the same time, just working on her MS degree - and having an affair.

We haven't talked about $, but I am at least concep2ally willing 2 help out for a reasonable period of time, mostly while she gets on her financial feet.

Our lawyer could work with one of us or both of us (and thus not either of us alone).

-ol' 2long

I added the link above to the $250 guy.

http://www.divorceinfo.com/

Actually, I really like his attitude and the info on his site is quite helpful.

-AD

I like flag better too -
it has actual trees, and weather.

Are you going to wait a few months, or apply now?

SS

And you can use more expensive resources, but the results may be the same if, after all, you really are being civilized. We're in the same boat. We're not fighting about "stuff" at all. I am truely grateful for that!

Check out that $250 guy's web site and tell me what you are getting for the thousands that he doesn't provide for $250. (other than nice walnut furniture)

-AD

And the sun goes down at night, 2!

The opening was just announced. I checked the announcement, and I only have until the end of the month 2 apply. Kind of a fast one for the government!

So, I'd better get 2 work on the app.

-ol' 2long

It depends. My attorney said divorce agreements can unravel under all sorts of circumstances -- for example, in my case, since WH is in poor health and OW is a confirmed nutter, one attorney friend warned me that I could be dealing with her version of verbal agreements six months or a year down the road, should he depart this world. That was enough to create nightmares.

It seems to me that under these circumstances, one of the BIG mistakes BSs make is to assume a "steady state" situation. It's clear that WW is in blame mode here, and given she has been in denial for many years, as reality sinks in and the self-interested fog dispels, she may go in all sorts of different directions. 2Long is not anticipating becoming hostile or acrimonious, and he's had 14 years to digest his emotions and know what they are -- WW could very well become vitriolic and litigious. Hence, expensive lawyers' fees now, at the front end.

I was advised, because there appear to be two mentally questionable people involved in this triangle -- and I'm not one of them -- to build a very solid firewall between me and their destinies. It was very expensive, but good advice -- and it came from a number of sources. I think 2Long wants a firewall between him, WW, and RM.

What do poor people do? I suppose they open themselves up to years of recrimination, blame, and theft. Or perhaps they don't have the means to pursue each other with subsequent legal action. I wouldn't put it beyond WW and RM to follow-up with legal action a few years down the road when their expectations are disappointed, and WW has no one to type her thesis.

Also, separation time, according to my attorney, is pretty much anything you say it is. It could be when 2Long moved to the couch -- on the other hand, it may not have been a "separation" in his mind, but rather a temporary emergency. Who knows what people are thinking under such circumstances? So you can use that flexibility to your advantage.

Sorry to go on and on on 2Long's (who can't escape high fees) thread.

In AL, you can file in any county, no matter where you live. That gives you 66 courts to chose from. Some lawyers (who don't mind the drive) make use of this to pick and choose judges when they think there is some advantage to it.

My attorney really doesn't impress me very much.

I like the guy at AFLC, and the only reason I didn't use AFLC (mentioned above) is that the judge in our county gives much better terms for Dads in his "standard visitation", than the judge in that other county where AFLC files.

-AD

Interesting information. I will have to read more later. I am happy with my situation, well not the D, but the attorney. I don't want to be the one to do much leg work, KWIM?

2L, very proud of you.

2L,

A door is closing. Other doors are opening.

I don’t understand you funding her PhD, though. She has 50% of the marital assets already. Let her eat her half of the cake.

I’m cheering for you. And praying for you (W too).

AMM,

Yes, I see that the potential litagousness of the other party could be a deciding factor. I'm pretty sure that my W would not be coming back to court to ask for something.

Now, my attorney reasonably points out that when her temporary alimony has run out, if she doesn't have a job, she's going to be very highly motivated to do something - and we need to have enough protections in place for me at that time - 'cause she may end up on food stamps or worse. She will have fallen a very long way indeed if it comes to that.

Desperation is a powerful force.

So, you may see me crying about it in a couple of years and wishing I spent more $$$.

-AD
(now back to 2Long's story)

I 100% agree!

-AD

Don't forget, AD, that 2Long may not be negotiating only with WW and her potential litigiousness -- but also RM's. RM will be an influence in the future, no doubt -- whether as an H or a BF we don't know. That's partly what lawyers are for: they visualize -- and have seen played out -- all sorts of scenarios that we haven't.

I'll have 2 mention 2 the lawyer the timing of things while she "put aside her goals" 2 help me finish my PhD.

I started my PhD in 1988, after taking 3 years between my MS and starting my PhD. I finished in 1994. I worked full-time during the entire period. She started her MS in 1990 or 1991 or so (I don't remember exactly, but the affair started in 1991, during the Gulf War). She had been working full-time between her BA and MS degrees (and was working for RM at some point around then). I think it was a couple years "off" between the 2 degrees, and she worked no more than part time during her MS, which she finished in 1995.

She had been a SAHM mostly after starting her BA in the early-mid 80s. I have great respect for her accomplishments at home and in her field during our entire marriage. I will not diminish that. I will not be the "bad guy" in regard 2 respect for her as a professional and a mother. And so long as it's not a huge bucked of sweat off my balls 2 help pay for her PhD, I'm happy 2 do that. Realisitcally, though, it would make more sense 2 give her that support right up front, because it will likely be at least next winter before she can apply, and fall 2006 before she can start.

Our financial advisor called me when I was walking in, regarding an appointment we had 2 open an IRA for my retirement deductions 2 go 2. I suggested we put that off at least until July or August, telling her about the meeting 2day (but not the A). She said she could still help us individually or as "partners" on a trust if we want that. She also recommended books by John Gottman, that she studied when she was having marital problems some time back. I recognized the title of the book she mentioned, but don't remember it at the moment.

Why are marital problems so common, though?

-ol' 2long

2long,

are you a prof?

D.