I'm still not very knowledgable about this issue, but it seems that in some states the person who files first can get what they want brought before a court, or given credit first, before the other party responds. But here, both parties have to act then it's all looked at together.

For instance, I could ask for temporary custody of my daughter, but that would NOT mean anything until my wife responded. It would not mean that I do or do not have custody, it would just mean that nothing had been determined until both sides are looked at.

In this state, the only way I could be granted temp. custody would be if there was assault involved or other crimes.

But why did he win, Brit's Brat? You are an attorney, so I do not disagree with the notion that who files first doesnt matter. My contention is WHERE the child is matters. The undeniable truth is that the first thing a judge considers is where do the children currently live? They do not like to brak up current living conditions, unless other factors warrant so.

So, to let his daughter go...to let his wife file and then take off with the daughter to a friends house or wherever...sets him up to having his wife set up a new home for his daughter. And once that is established, it is VERY hard to get her back.

My attorney advised me on many things. But one of the major ones was that I needed to have those kids doing everything with me. I had to be their provider, the one that took them to ballgames, the doctors, etc. I put them in bed at night. All of that was VERY relevent to my case, and was the key ingredient why I got custody.

The e-book I sent Gramn even asks this question. It asks the husband going thru divorce "Make an assessment on who would be better to be the fulltime parent. Is it your wife? If so, then it would be better for everyone involved that you let her have primary physical custody."

In Gramn's case, his wife has been home with the baby. She has done most of the day-to-day care. That judge is not going to want to break that up, especially if she has established a new residence for her and their daughter. "Where will she live? What schools will she go to? Daycare? How will you facilitate the other parent seeing the child?" If he keeps his daughter with him in the family home, and can answer these questions...in the meantime his wife cannot answer these questions...then he wins.

As I asked above...why did that guy get custody???

In His arms.

Good questions Mortarman. (Are you sure that you didn't write that e-book? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad that I got her to stay in the house for now. It's a very tricky situation.

Nope, didnt write it...but followed it. That guy was brilliant!! The battle plan for the father who wants custody of his kids.

Good that you have kept her there. Now, get letter off to Y Board TODAY...and start Plan Aing her. Talk positive. Work on meeting needs. Be there for your daughter. Start establishing those patterns that the judge will like, if it goes that way...and your wife will like if it doesnt.

Of course, make sure you are documenting everything daily. EVERYTHING!!

In His arms.

I am REALLY frustrated!!! I wrote this REALLY great response and lost it! Let's see how much of it I can recreate!

Mortarman, I really respect you and the advice you offer so many MB-er's! I am very supportive of Father's Rights and am glad you are here to help our brethern. Too often, society and the courts assume that children are better off with the mother. That is not always the case. I don't know why the judge in my neighbor's instance granted the father custody. I suspect it may, in part, be due to the fact that, in our state, at the age of 14, children get to have a say/decide where they want to live. Both of the neighbor boys are 14+. It is very likely they chose to live with Dad because he appears to be less of a disciplinarian and more fun that Mom. I also do not have first-hand knowledge of the facts around their particular situation. I know what she has told me. I have not heard is side of it. The truth most probably lies somewhere in the middle. We all believe that we perceive things transparently and objectively - the way the REALLY are. In actuality that may not be the way it really is - WS fog type thing. Nonetheless, the way we perceive it to be is our reality. She told me her reality. Don't know what his is. SO...there could be more there. What I can add is that she has been a SAHM for 20 years. She has no skills she can convert into work. This did not influence the judge's decision - and she filed first.

Gramn is right, in his jurisdiction, it doesn't matter who files first. While the judge's bailiff might get the file with the Complaint in it within days after it being filed, the reality is these folks have huge dockets and the Judge doesn't look at the file until the first status conference, pretrial or motion hearing. Some of them don't even look at the Complaint and Answer then because both are purely procedural. There are certain things that must be stated in them in order to preserve and not waive claims/defenses (if you don't and later try, the other side will throw the Complaint/Answer in your face as to why you can't), but do they influence the judge's decision - nah. The best I can liken it to is a daily occurence at my son's daycare. DS will start crying and say, "Kira bit me." Kira will respond by crying and saying, "John Paul pushed me." The daycare provider knows not to immediately punish Kira or John Paul without getting a handle on the entire situation because the truth could be one, the other, both or something entirely different.

Hope that clarifies.

BB

Gramn, I agree with Mortarman's last post. While who files first may not matter, what evidence you do put before the judge at the custody hearing will. Document, document, document....

BB

I've been keeping a journal every day.

Wife's latest thing is that she wants to avoid me. If I am home, she tries not to be. This makes it hard to meet some ENs, but at least she is there.

Have you read up on ENs?

Financial Support, Domestic Support and Family Commitment, simply accomplished, for example, in your grocery shopping yesterday, are ENs which you are now meeting......despite her physical distancing.....

What others can you work on??

BB,

It does clarify. And not accounting for other factors. it appears that his kids were old enough to choose him...and did so. That would negate her years as a SAHM.

But again, I am not going at this necessarily as who files first wins. I am trying to keep his daughter from leaving with his wife, so that if his WW does go, he will be primary caregiver. And in that case, with the other looney stuff his wife is doing, he will have a head start on convincing the judge that their daughter should remain with him. If she takes the daughter, and then files...then he will have problems getting her back.

So, the issue I raise is not that the filing first makes any difference. It is what does Gramn do to keep his daughter in that house, no matter what his wife does. Can his wife just up and take his daughter in the middle of the night? What if she walks in, says she is leaving and then Gramn goes to give his daughter a hug...but then holds onto her and says she isnt leaving? Who wins that battle?

In my case, my wife was in no position to take the kids financially. I was. She was also too busy with OM and with her nursing school to really want them fulltime anyway. So, that helped in the beginning. And by the time she started turning all of that around, I had established more than 7 months of raising the kids on my own.

So, how does Gramn keep his daughter in that house no matter what his wife does? Will it be a tug-o-war, with him grabbing hsi daughters arms and his wife grabbing her feet? If he keeps her and says she is leaving, how does he keep wife from "stealing" her before the hearing, but at the same time, allow his wife to see their daughter?

This is what I mean by filing. I was looking for the avenue which he could protect hsi parental rights and keep his daughter from physically leaving the home. And by doing so, he gives himself a great position to be in when the hearing does happen.

In His arms.

I know what you're saying MM. From what my lawyers say, there is nothing I can do to keep her from leaving.

I can even hypothetically WIN a tug-o-war, but she still could take the girl while I'm at work...

Can you "take" the girl while she is at work or wherever? Does it work both ways?

An interesting idea:

1) I would need to set up a new home for us. (I can't kick my wife out)
2) I would be leaving our home and assets
3) I would need to set up daycare or something which would be hard to justify later
4) I don't think the courts would like me taking the girl from her mother...

So what are you going to do, Gramn?!?!?

I have read through your posts here, and it sounds to me almost like you're just going to sit back and take whatever your wife decides to dish out. If she takes your daughter, you're not going to fight back. You'll just let it happen...

You really need to think about how you're coming across to your WW at this point. For example, she wanted you to hurry home so that she could go run damage control on her friend...I would have simply asked her "what are you going to tell her? It's not like I lied to her...I simply told her the truth of what's going on...how was what I told her incorrect or inaccurate?". It's statements like this, gently said, that cause her to start thinking about the fact that SHE is the one who's in the wrong, not you. But as long as you continue to let her have her way in things, she's going to keep doing what she's doing.

Just my thoughts. I think that MM has a lot of good advice in this particular case...and he's on the money about having a tiered battle plan...I did 15 years as an NCO in the US Army, and I can tell you from personal experience that you should ALWAYS be thinking three moves ahead of your enemy. It goes like this..."If I do this, she'll do this (or this, or this)...and my response will be this (or this, or this). That should hopefully cause this...." and so on. Plan for multiple responses, but above all, start PLANNING.

Owl, I did say some of those things you mentioned (during the "rush home" discussion)
I know that planning is important, but it can also be very tricky. I'm ALWAYS thinking about it though.

Something interesting just now... I am planning to go get shoes after work. Wife calls and says "don't take this to mean anything, but would you like Baby and me to meet you and help you shoe shop?"
Even if it doesn't "mean anything" at least she is talking to me...

Shoe shopping is very good!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Pep

WOW! This is major coming from WW who did not want to be near you. Remember what I told you about the ENs that you are now meeting?

Yes, indeedy, is your answer to your shopping with you. Just make sure to steer clear of any traps particularly relationship talk! This will be a pleasant FAMILY BONDING activity!

Gramn-

I have nothing to add, except that I think the shoe shopping thing is a very good sign, she said "Don't take this to mean anything..." Because she's testing the water, she isn't sure what you're going to think of her offer. But it's a very good sign......You are creating instability within her fantasy world, and you're filling EN's even if it feels futile....AND SHE'S NOTICING....Good Job.

-Caren

THe shopping went well. She even chipped in 5 bucks for my shoes rather than making me use our account.
We also went to a Victoria Secret sale. That was fine, but strange. Normally, I'd love to get my wife all sorts of sexy stuff. Now, I'm like.. that one is nice... Don't want to be a jerk, but don't want to encourage her to dress sexy for this OM. A truely strange situation.

SO, I guess that went well, but she's probably out with him again tonight. She claims that she is out with a group of friends at a girlfriends house... and I'm sure that is true to some extent, but I'm sure that OM is involved somehow. (She never denied that he would be there, and she went out looking sexier than necessary)

SO, again, I feel like I'm getting walked all over here trying to meet her EN while she tramples on me.

She still plans on filing in the next few days. Ugh...

My opinion is to drop the bomb on Y Guy.

I know that everyone wants me to mail the board at the Y... But I am trying to think a few steps ahead and plan for everything, etc. It seems that in almost every scenario, this will not help.

Even if it worked perfectly: I mail the letters, the board pressures the Yguy, he breaks up w wife... THERE would still be problems. Wife would hold the letters against me. Rather than turning to me after the "terrible" breakup, she would be furious with me for causing it.

BUT that is just the 1 best scenario.

think of these factors:

He has already talked to the board. I heard that he's already talked to 2 of the members as of late last week. He will try to convince them that I'm a nutcase or whatever. Wife would hold the letters against me.

The board get the letters, but don't care to act. (This seems likely) Wife would still hold the letters against me.

The board get the letters, and threaten him, but don't really care to back it up. I can only pressure them so much. He can truely claim that he is seperated from his wife. If this letter thing gets out, I'm sure that my WIFE will get out of here in 2 seconds flat.

The board get the letters, fire him, and he stays with WIFE. Further polarizing her against me.

-----------------
Here is another problem. Our local Y is just called the "Y" not the YMCA. Even on the sign. For some reason, they are trying to distance themselves from the "Christian Mens" part of the organization. This is not a big deal, but it gives less weight to my claim that this guy is supposed to be moral.
--------------
So, even though I want him to go down, it seems like the "cost/benefit" analysis doesn't pay off.