Stop worrying so much, everyone!

I do NOT intend to let the girl go out of the country at this time. I just figured that it I have my lawyer back me up, it would be harder for her to argue with it.

And about the inlaws, they know what is going on. But they'd also like her to come home. I don't want her to be able to say "Gramn stopped us from coming! Boo Hoo!"
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I'm still lookng for ideas on the Anniversary which I mentioned above.

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This afternoon she signed the lease on her apartment. What #(*^$#*!!!!

Gramn

My 1st entry anywhere on this site though I been here for months. I've been successful using the MB principals and our recovery is going great (some days better than others). You may or may not be successful in your quest to save your marriage but the advice you are getting here is the only way you can possibly save it. Stick to the plan and have faith. However, no matter which way it goes you will have the self-respect that at least you gave it your all.

A couple of little suggestions. The Plan A stuff baffles them. Your WW fights and dismisses you every time you indicate/imply you are trying to save the marriage. I used to reverse fog my wife and hide my intentions a little by just arguing that all I (and our daughter) wanted/deserved was a "CHANCE". I wouldn't beg or plead for a "chance", just state it with nuetrality and as if it were a future consideration. It's not as overwhelming for them just to CONSIDER giving you a "chance". To them, you are acknowledging the foggy belief you don't have a chance right now, and they can just go with the flow and decide later whether to give you one or not. You keep Plan Aing.

Your wife may also fear giving you false hope. In her fog, it's over. Reassure her that no matter how things work out and even if things get tough, you, her and your daughter are still going to be a family. Let her know, with or without her, all three of your are going to make it. Indicate you'd prefer to make it together. Encourage her to practice being a famly to make this "adjustment" for daughter easier. All the while you are Plan Aing her, spending more and more time together and hopefully before you know it getting the "chance" you do deserve. (IMO - you will eventually be rewarded - I feel guilty how quickly MB worked for me. It should work for you. Just remember, most affairs do not ultimately result in final divorce.)

TAKING A TRIP. Have you considered encouraging your wife to take a trip home, alone? Maybe she could push back the move-in date a few weeks on the appartment and get out of town before she starts her new job. Why send her home?

BENEFITS - No contact with OM, she moves into or continues withdrawal, time is your ally, divorce proceedings delayed, you get to demonstrate to court your ability to handle daughter by yourself, she appears to have abandoned family (don't document your encouragement of travel), maybe you even file for temp custody while she's gone and she'll miss the hearing, the old country often encourages marriages to stick it out and parents have a way of pointing out to their children what the only true option is, her attorney should advise her not to go but pray for a fog (her selfishness will make her want to go regardless and she will like you for encouraging it (Plan A), she thinks she's getting to escape life for awhile longer and as everyone's pointing out her life is not very much fun right now).

She's dieing to go, so let her. Maybe it could be your anniversary gift to her.

While she's there call, email, write often. Keep up the Plan A stuff. Make sure in-laws know it so she can't fog talk them that your a bad guy now or that you don't love her. If you demonstrate love, though she is blind, her parents will see it and encourage her to do the right thing (for her sake and sake of their grandchild). It also doesn't hurt to make certain grandparents know that no matter what happens ever, you intend to keep them in your daughters life (document it also for your divorce file).

Listen to the pro's. I'm just one of many lucky BS's that got his WW and family back by applying the principals herein. No guarantees. Keep up the good fight. Don't beat yourself up nor feel guilty for anything -

All's fair in love and war.... this is war part.

Thanks ACTdontreact...

I am feeling kinda good, because I'm already doing most of the things that you are suggesting. I have offered that she go home alone numerous times, but she wont leave our daughter behind.

I have not tried saying "give us a chance" in those words, but I have tried saying things that show this attitude without sounding too pathetic.

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Unless she is being sneaky, Wife and I just had a little "breakthrough" today. While telling me aobut her new apartment, she said "You were a great comfort to me earleir today, and if this doesn't work out 6 months down the line, maybe we could move back together".
That's the first time that she has even mentioned the notion of getting back together.

Fog is lifting. You will still have to endure much back and forth as the fog lifts then sets back in. I constantly tried to jump on encouraging moments only to be "put" back in my place with how needy/insecure I was being. Try not to demonstrate to much hope in front of her. Just appreciate it and don't take it like a promise or an opening to hammer out everything. Worry about tomorrow when you get there. Just listen to her, ask questions, listen some more. She will slowly begin to unravel this whole thing herself. You'll want so badly to help her, to make her see the light but only time will. Allow it to happen itself. Once the ball is rolling it can happen super quick (as was my experience) or really slow. Remember, she will not trust that you have changed, she will not believe that your change is permanent, so you need to remain consistent and strong. Later in recovery is when you get to tell them how mad you were but by then you will be exhausted emotionally and just ready to move forward making your recovered marriage what it should have been and what you had always dreamed it would be. I pray you get that chance, as well.

Gramm,

""You were a great comfort to me earleir today,""

ATTA BOOYEEE!! That is perfect plan A!!

THAT'S WHAT WE TALKING ABOUT!!

k

Well, more of the same tonight.
She was saying how sorry she is for hurting me,

and "I don't not love you"

Hmm...

Of course, on top of that she still wants this new apartment and her trip home with the baby...

She is softening up, Gramm. Just be patient. She is coming around.

Yep.....you're wearing her down.....keep at it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Caren

Remember, there is a HUGE, HUGE "Wrong Sandwich" she has to eat. No way she can eat it all in one bite. She will choke on it. She is going to have to nibble on it and take it down meal by meal until it is gone and she fully sees reality.

But as everyone said above, she is turning. Just keep up what you are doing.

In His arms.

Yep this is encouraging. But as many of us have said you now have to be prepared for the roller coaster. Just when you think you see things as getting normal again the bottom will fall out.

You just have to be steady as a rock. Dont get too up for the good signs and dont let the down times bring you down. The changes you are making need to be permanant. She will doubt your sincerety and think you are just reacting to the situation. There will be more doubt more blame but slowly it should come around. Stability on your part is key.

I dont think any of the good people on this board have given bad advise. It goes against what you think is right but most of us here have come through this.

It is the same basic script for everyone. It is a long painful slow journey through it but it can be worth it.

Thanks everyone. It's hard being patient with some of this.

Well, it was a strange day...

Wife went to a councilor today then called me. She came clean that they HAD still been together until a couple days ago. (Secretly!)

That is why she was flipping out again over the past few days.
He actually dumped her this time.

More [censored] to go through...

No, no, no!!! Not more crap. This is GOOD!

Gramn, look at what she did here. She was HONEST with you. She came forward. Who cares why she came forward. Added to that...he dumped her again, and it had NOTHING to do with you or your actions. This is all good.

She is beginning to talk about "if" things, beginning to apologize. Beginning to come clean all on her own.

And all you are doing is Plan Aing. Being there to listen. Showing her the alternative. She is headed back to you Gramn. Like others side, the rollercoaster may still go up and down a few more times.

But all of this is progress!!

In His arms.

That is great. She told you the truth.

You got to trust the experts here. When they smell a rat there usually is one around.

The fact is she told you it was continuing. If she didnt care any longer why would she bother to tell you she was sneaking around still.

Her knight in shinning armour turned out to be made of rusty iron and bolted at the first sign of trouble. It was no longer "fun" and became a burden.

You on the other hand are still there. Through everything still there as much as she tried to push you away you were there for her.

Think of what you have gone through. Discovery, exposure, all the spying and prying. It was all to fight for your marriage and it is now noticed.

You have to get through withdrawl and hope there are not any purposful or accidental contacts. This will make it faster. You will have to stand there and watch you WW grieve over the loss of a loved one. You have to be the shoulder to cry on. It is tough to take but once you get beyond that recovery can and most likely will occur.

One caution. Do not take this time or any time to say I told you so. Right now OM is probably still on a higher pedistal than you believe it or not. But by being there for her you will look like the better option each day.

You can never openly bash the OM. It is tough. I have forgiven my WW but I have A LOT of built up anger toward OM. While it was ultimately my wife's decision I cant help but feel he manipulated the situation.

Just take it slow and enjoy the little bits of encouragement you are getting. It is a very long journey but when you get through a lot of the stuff your marriage will be stronger and more fulfilling then it ever has.

Yes, more [censored], but some good [censored] for you. Her behavior (wanting to take a trip and expressing thanks for your comfort yesterday) indicate this may finally be the truth and the end of her illicit affair. If so, hooray!!! Your reward, a brokenhearted wife. Plan A calls for you to be supportive and actually console her broken heart. It was a tough pill for me to swallow at times. However, when done right (you may slip up now and then - don't beat yourself up), you will be rewarded with gratitude. She will begin to see you as "the lighthouse" guiding her back to reality. She will admire your ability to swallow your hurt for her, your ability to actually comfort her will make you appear strong and masculine. When my WW questioned "why was I doing this" or the like, then you get to throw in you are fighting for your family. Sometimes I'd throw in, daughter or no daughter I'd be fighting to keep her. I felt this was important to my WW. It indicated I wasn't just trying to get her back for my daughters sake - I loved her despite her misgivings and misdeeds. Also, now is when they can start trusting your behavioral changes because to them you've won, you broke up the affair. Up to now they believe you were just trying to beat OM and your behavior was just male bravata. If you keep Plan A'ing they can see and will begin to accept the changes in you are permanent and finally, as she did yesterday - APPRECIATE IT. She will hopefully see you as the HUSBAND God intended for her.

You've worked so hard at this. At the end of each day, I didn't think I could take another day of this crap. I prayed for God's will to be done, and the ole familiar "the power to change what I can change and accept those things that I can not change". You've had to work so much harder and longer than I (though not nearly as long as many here, especially the one's that came here way later in the affair then you or I). I commend your endurance and believe you will be rewarded (with at least a chance).

You may get what I got. All of a sudden, on a night I was finally coming to acceptance that I was going to lose my wife, my WW and I had a serious all-night discussion about everything. It was all very quick and much of it is a blur to me now. A Heart to heart. Even in those moments I tried to maintain a little distance. My WW wanted me to share alot of my feelings from during the affair (which had only ended hours/days before). I did a little but only a few tears (which she later said she needed from me as a demonstration of my love for her). Try to remember she will be in serious withdrawal -- she still was in a fog. She is sharing with you because you are the only one left standing and she is overwhelmed with feelings. If you get this opportunity be prepared to continue PLAN A. Tell her you want to put off sharing your feelings for a few weeks because she is going through a lot of feelings right now and don't need to be burdened with how you feel right now. Just listen. Express again - You're strong, you will make it, OK. You are worried about her, as your wife, maybe exwife, but always the mother of your child. Tend to agree with her fog talk (reverse fog talk), I used lines like "It seems that way, thank you for your truthfulness" or just disagree without a debate, move on, distract, whatever but be respectful (despite her disrespect). Try to focus on good times, your strengths, your positives. Apologize for your mistakes, real or not. Express to her that now, with this affair behind her, and the knowledge and experience you both have gained about yourselves, marriage, love and life - you both really can have it all - TOGETHER. BTW,

As far as your anniversary. Maybe telling her that if this is going to be your last anniversary together that why not make it the best one ever. Your final hoorah, so to speak. Get out alone for the night, get a hotel room (not for sex, but so you don't have to drink & drunk), and party it up. Try to indicate the rule my WW and I have used lately, "light and playful". A time to get away from all the seriousness you both have been thru lately. No pressure to make it "Romantic", just fun. It's really a chance for you to Plan A, date your wife, alone time with your wife, and she may really open up to you because there is no pressure to open up to you. If you get a little tipsy and start getting all emotional, and she backs off, just apologize, lighten up and remind her of times past at the beginning of your relationship when you would behave the same way because you were/are crazy about her.

I find it strange how us BH's all apparently have to eat crow and accept this crap for so long. It sucked then and it sucks now. Just do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow.

Gramm,

All good signs..now how can you get her out of the darn apartment and back into your house?

It still no good that she is away. Would she be ready for that? If not now maybe in a week?

Strive like crazy to get back to the family unit.

k

Great Point Krusht,

Investigate the terms of her lease. If she signed it already many of them have a clause which enables you to get out in 3,5 even up to 10 days after signing it. Maybe there's just a penalty clause. Either way just initiate a discussion.

How long is the lease. Even if it costs a little more, try to get her to consider a shorter lease giving credence to the fact she MAY decide to give you two a shot.

Carefully approach this but a least make an attempt to get her home.

EDIT - She already cashed her 401k. Ask her to imagine what else she could do with that money instead of rent. Seemingly indicate living together harmonously as friends (your fog talk). Get her to spend the money in her head on something else she wants. Think of other reasons, daughter/money for attorneys/money to travel to her parents as a family later this year, etc. reasons other than the marriage to come home. Remind her that she will have to pay regular income taxes on the early withdrawal plus a 10% penalty come next April 15 - so money may not last as long as she thinks. Economically it makes sense to come home at least until divorce is final. Besides you deserve a chance or at least the opportunity to be given a chance later.

Good luck

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Well, she found out today that his termination is final. She wouldn't share details (which she got from a board member) with me though, so I think there is more to his firing than my letter. It annoys me that he was [censored] to her, and she still is mad at me about this. I figure, this guy is [censored] to me, [censored] to her, he should loose his job!!

I've talked about her moving home, but she is still set on her apartment idea for now. It has crappy lease breaking terms but I don't know about an opt-out clause.

Tonight she whined to me for a LONG time wanting me to agree that she could take our daughter on a vacation out of the country. Uh... NO...

So, even if the affair is really over, there is still much to do...

Sounds like there was more to his firing.....maybe he has been warned about this type of activity before and it finally caught up to him. Just a thought.

I;ve got no idea. I think if it had just been my letters then Wife would have been happy to tell me that. She is protecting him. I'm sure that she'll spill the details once he has gone down in her opinion some more...