When she was sane. She is not right now. You cannot negotiate with a person in the fog. They dont negotiate...they just take. So, this positive does not apply because you are dealing with the Alien, not your wife.

Help end it? I thought he canned her. Dont be surprised that if is hasnt ended, that they spend everyday talking via phone or online. Or maybe OM goes on the trip too. If the affair is over, then this positive doesnt help at all. So, two positives down.

Blood is thicker than mud! Dont count on this.

True...but how does that help your marriage, which is the ultimate thing that will help your daughter.

Even if he is being honest, how will he insure that? He cant. And remember, you may trust him...but blood is thicker than mud!

Zactly!! This is the alien you are dealing with. This is how she will deal with you on this too. She will lie, manipulate and do whatever else it takes to get what she wants. Count on it!

Great. But if you think that wont keep her gone, that she will want to return, you are mistaken. Remember, she will have to pay for all of that stuff. Added to that, something you said in an earlier post...about her being a SAHM. Guess what? When she starts working, she wont be a SAHM. So, custody to her because she is a SAHM is irrelevent because she wont be a SAHM. You both will be in the workforce.

Gramn, this trip cannot happen with your daughter. I am willing to bet my next paycheck that it will not turn out well.

In His arms.

I'll call your paycheck MM and raise you another weeks pay..

There is no humor in this Gramn. You need to understand that in your desire for everything to be OK you're willing to accept abnormal behavior as normal. You have begun to accept your wife's behavior. I, as others here, see nothing positive here other than the slow miserable progress of a dying affair. They are in contact...still. Stick to your boundries..you must... not waiver one bit...the price can be more than you can bear....

The reason she wants this trip is because he's not there to support her. I realize that nothing is "final" though with their "break up".

All of this Plan A stuff is hard to balance with other things. I'm sure that saying no to this will be a HUGE love-buster.

Of course, I have been given such [censored], that I'm starting not to care about that stuff.

I'll say again to you...

With the encouragement of MM, I FOUGHT THE AFFAIR WAR WITH STEADFASTNESS AND CONVICTION UP TO THE BITTER END....

That's what it takes, Gramn...

We know you can do it....

Don't let her get to you...Don't let her wear you down, pretending that she is a normal human being..

She will sink to new lows that it seems that you would never expect. This is not the time to be naive.

FIGHT BACK!!! ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE....

And this doesnt sound foggy to you??? How in the world will taking a short trip to another country help support her? So she can talk to family? She can do that now...Alexander Graham Bell came up with this little known device called the telephone. I know I am being sarcastic. I am trying to give you what you need to be giving your wife. Honesty, the truth...and reverse babble. If he isnt there to support her, then she has three true choices: 1)support herself; 2)have you support her; 3) have family/friends support her. She cant do number one on her own. You will only support her if she stays and works on the marriage. So number three is the only choice she has. Now, do they have the money to send cash here every month to help support her? Is one of them willing to move here to live with her and help with things? OOooorrrr....is it easier for her and her family if she comes there and lets them help her??

She only has those three choices if OM isnt there for her. So, let's approach this again...

Why does your wife want to take your daughter and go on this trip?

Boundaries are NOT love busters. Just because she gets angry or upset does not make it a love buster. Read up on what love busters ARE!!

In His arms.

Gramn..I am struggling with the boundries issue and I would consider myself reconciled with my XW...because sometimes it appears that a boundry and LB are synonmous...THEY'RE NOT...

So there I just answered my own question on another thread...

I know it's hard....we all do....

Chin up...

"the lull in the firing of the shells is only because they're reloading"....

Brilliant!

Something interesting. I just talked to WW, and she AGAIN asked if I had talked to OMW. Why does she want me to do that?

(She wants me to tell OMW that they were recently still together, but NOT reveal that Wife was the one who told me.)

Even though normally keeping OMW informed seems like a GOOD idea, I'm inclined not to play along with this game.

Possible scenario:

OM is now a cake-eater, pretending to or trying to reconcile with his W. That would be a normal and expected part of this script.

Your WW wants his wife to know that he has recently been with her or still is with her. She doesn't want OM to know about her scheme.

Regardless of her reason, the worse part of this is that she continues to see you as someone who could be manipulated into doing such a thing. This is demeaning to you...

Gain her respect. Calmly and quietly tell her that you would never consider doing such a thing....

MM- said that to my new CO during a training excercise at 29 Palms, Calif. Actually, what they did was call in air support...



Gramn....why do you engage yourself in these conversations? Why are you allowing her to even attempt to manipulate you...

Don't play along with anything..stick to the plan. Meet her EN's, no LB, plan A....and start preparing Plan B....you must begin to live your life outside of this madness.

Another question. I really think you should get an injunction from the court preventing WW from leaving country with baby. It will make it very difficult to leave US with such an order in place...Daddy's gonna send her money to leave and you're going to come home to an empty house...

Gramn

Did she come and say that she wants you to talk to OMW but not say that she was ebhind it?

Look, you have nothing to worry about on that. Let that lie now. You keep Plan Aing, and protecting your boundaries (which includes NO foreign junkets for members of your household that are under the age of 18!!).

She is still trying to find a way to make the fantasy work, even though the affair is dying. Just be quiet, do your Plan A thing...and let it die.

In His arms.

That's right.

WW seems to think that it is over because he broke contact with her, but she is at the same time keeping her options open. This foriegn trip was supposed to help her "greiving".

So, she can go and grieve away...and she would be better grieving alone. But daughter doesnt get to go along.

In His arms.

OK, I came home from a long day, and checked my computer.
Apparently, WW also checked her email on here. Her new SECRET email account...

Here is what the troubled lovers had to say on tuesday...
(names have been changed)
---------------------------------------------------
TO: WW
FROM: X-YGuy

Yes you deserve at least a phone call - I am sorry, but I can't right now. I need the space I was trying to get last week. I know you don't understand, but this is how I deal, and have for all my adult life. Your written words words are powerful and I was glad to hear that you are doing some things to take care of yourself. Know this - I never was trying to lie to you or mislead you.
---

To: X-YGuy
I respect that you need your space, but causing me the pain that you have was not the way to get it. You know what I am going through this week and although you don't feel it the way I do, you know that I needed you to be with me, and your promises still ring in my head like a migraine. I hear you when you say you weren't lying, but hear me when I say that what you've done makes it hard to believe.
Maybe I'm stupid, or naive, or both, but I still hope you can bring yourself to face me, I have not yet let go. The things I'm doing to take care of myself take a huge effort on my part because the hole in my heart makes it hard to even function. And maybe I'm even dumber to say that I miss you so much, because I fell in love with you, and I still love you, if I didn't then I wouldn't care that you chose to ignore me for days and God knows how much longer.
Take your space and do your thinking, but please be fair. I am a part of this too and I am hurt.
---------------------------------------------------
-
-
Commentary:
Fog talk at it's best!
OK, the real point of all this is: She KNOWS that I have the computer bugged. WHY would she be stupid enough to check her secret email account from my computer??!

Gramn - This is what Y-guy means:

Yes, you deserve a phone call. I am sorry, but I can't right now. I'm fighting like crazy to get my wife back.

I need space from you as our relationship has cost me my job and may cost me my family.

I know you don't understand, but this is how I deal - when things get tough, I'm gone.

Know this - I was never trying to lie or mislead you, but now that my wife found out, all bets are cancelled.

And Gramn - your wife is using the bugged computer because she is in terrible withdrawal, and wants to hear from him.

By the way, I would forward the above to Y-Guy's wife.

OR. . .

your wife is using your computer because she wants you to find those emails,contact OM's wife, tell her that they are still in contact, and ruin any chance that they may have of making any headway, so SHE can have him. Gag.

A stretch, I know, but something to consider.

Hadn't she been pushing for you to contact the OMs wife all this time anyhow??

Just a thought. . . you didn't mention if she had her own computer and chose to use yours, or if she just had that one computer to use and took a chance that you weren't snooping any more. . .

hmmmm. . .

slh

"What I am saying is that I am too busy to help you or be with you because I am covering my butt...but I will at least send this email to maybe string you along."

"Again, I need to be selfish some more, but this time be selfish to you."

"This is what you need to understand...when I get hurt in my life, I run away. you need to understand that."

Your constant emails are beginning to annoy me because my life is spinning out of control and I do not have time for your crap."

"Know this, I wasnt TRYING to lie to you, just trying to cover my butt. Thus I did lie to you."


"You hurt me, but I need to say I respect you so you wont leave me."

"You know I am throwing my whole life away for you, all based on your promises that ring in my head because it appears that you will never live up to them."

"I know you said you werent lying, but we both know you were. I just hope you will change your mind."

"Maybe I am all of these things, but I am still wanting my fix."

"The things I am doing to throw my life away were all based on your promises, which you have now admitted were lies. So now my life is falling apart for those lies."

"I feel dumb for loving a person that would abandon me when I needed him. But I will say I love you over and over so maybe you will change your mind."

"Well, do what you have to do as I sit here and wait and hope that you will abandon your whole life and come back."

Absolutely!!
[b]Because WSs do stupid things. They have a labotomy while in their affair. They are not thinking. Ever seen a teenager in heat? The stupid things they do over and over? That is your wife!

Hang tight...this is dying. You are gonna have to let it die. Just keep doign what you are doing. Time is on your side.

In His arms.

That is teh best one! I was laughing here...
------------------------------------------------------

I talked to WW's dad again. He is offering tickets for ME, my lawyer and a 3rd person (of my choice) if WW and Daughter are not on the plane and headed home on the promised day.

I said that I would not even consider it until I have the temporary orders from the court and that WW could demonstrate that I can trust her.

Gramn, head up. Stick to the plan.