Way to hold your ground, Gramm! What good would a US lawyer do you in a foreign country if she decided to keep the baby there? Good grief, that does nothing to address the problem. Your W is just so used to getting her selfish way that she can't believe she can't get away with this.

And about her baiting you to contact OMW. You know what? That is all based on the faulty premise that the OMW will DUMP her H if she finds out there is continued contact. I don't believe she will. I believe rather, that it would embolden the OM to finally dump YOUR WIFE.

If you don't tell the OMW, though, they will continue doing this until they eventually DO talk. And if they talk your W is going to talk him into meeting her for "closure." "Closure" almost always leads to a resumption of the affair.

So, even though she is trying to manipulate you into contacting the OMW, I would definitely do it NOW, because it will work against her, Gramm. It will cut off this drip, dribble that is destined to lead to more contact. Give her a much needed surprise!

I tried calling her a few times. She didn't answer her cell, so I don't think she is taking my calls.


--------------------------------------------
OK, I talked to Wife this morning and she DENIES seeing talking or emailing him. Do you guys think I should confront her that I know about this new email account?? I would loose it as a source of info, but I don't know if it's that important.

I've been trying to get her to be HONEST with me. How could I ever trust her on a trip abroad if she can't be honest about simple things?!?

Gramm,

I wouldn't give up the source.

Would she consent to a lie detector?

God Bless

doug

"WW, Your behavior is not that of a woman who is NOT in contact with her OM."

Do not define which behaviors. Just affirm that you will know by her own sanity and behavior when she's clean of her addiction for at least a month. Until then, all bets are off on trusting her.

She'll push to know which behaviors are giving her away. Tell her, "it's not just one little thing that if I tell you, you'll fix so that you can try to make me think you're now on the honorable up and up, without truly clearing your head and heart of the addiction; - but rather, it's the big picture. You're not the woman of honor you once were. And that's who I need to see, regardless of whether you stay with me or not. That's how I'll know that you have truly cleaned up from the addiction."

KaylaAndy is onto something there. What you do is bluff. Not lie, just bluff.

You tell her matter-of-factly that you know that there is continued contact. You dont have to prove it to her, she knows she is having contact. You jsut sya I know you are still in contact with Y-Guy, and that is not acceptable conduct for a married woman.

Just tell her straight out. No justification needed. It'll make her wonder where you are getting your info. And that kind of stress will put even more pressure o nthe affair, because she is going to become paranoid.

In His arms.

I'm so tired and worn out from all of this S#!T.

I had ideas to do something clever for our anniversary, and now I just wish it ws over. I don't want to see her or anything.

My "lovebank" is so far into the negative numbers that this could break the bank...

Maybe I'm biased BUT Y-GUY sounds like my FWH: Long-term married man has "fling" with younger woman in order to recapture his youth. This is disastrous for him professionally as is any addiction. He also stands the chance of losing of his family. At first, he was just playing with the OW-it felt good. Then, they "FALL IN LOVE", a teenage, passionate, desperate kind of love..THE LOVE OF MY LIFE... YUK!

My take on this: Y-GUY is cake-eating...trying to reunite with his wife but can't let go of the good stuff ("high") from the "adolescent fling".

They will "BREAK UP TO MAKE UP" with passionate, ecstatic love sessions... Cellphone OFF...always a BAD SIGN....

Your WW is becoming desperate to get OM back to her and is trying to involve you in her schemes.. She is trying to come up with any way to maintain her DRUG FIX..

I agree with the importance of standing up to her assertively and saying NO to her requests for you to enable her schemes and also to let her know that you are aware of continued contact.

Gramn -

Hang in there. If you start getting too tired, and your bank too empty, just rest up for awhile. I don't think you need to do anything right now. The affair is just about dead.

Y-Guy has his hands full and won't be able to be there for your wife. She will figure it out.

Yep, it sounds similar to me. It seems like OM is thinking of ending this, but I'm sure that it's not completely there yet.

Remember, if you are tired, think of how OM and WW feel. Their world is spinning out of control. OM is unemployed now, has a wife that might leave him...and has this nagging woman that wants him to rescue her.

As was said above, you really dont have to do anything right now. Just defend your boundaries, protect your daughter, and Plan A when given the opportunity. Also, bluff and make your wife think that everything she does you immediately find out about thru several sources.

The pressure and fatigue are on them. They are on the rollercoaster. You are not. Just pull up a chair, grab a stiff drink...and watch the show. The ride will come to the end soon.

In His arms.

I can see that this Affair is ending (whether it already has, or it takes a few more months, its getting there).

BUT that is little consolation, as my life is now more screwed up than ever!

1) I'll at least temporarilly have to pay Wife child support and further strain our already messed up finances toward bankrupsy. Even is we SOMEHOW managed to fix our marriage, our finances are now doubly messed up.

2) Wife is setting up an apartment, spending a bunch of money we don't have to waste. Having her living away (with daughter) will make it hard to plan A her or even know what she is up to. (Plan B is just pathetic while she has our daughter in some apartment)

3) My two "friends" in town are not talking to me. That is not a big point, but it's annoying.

4) Wife still has no desire to reconcile, and even if she did, she has not changed her irresponsible/untrustworthy behavior.

OK, end griping...

With her upcoming move, what do you think I should do?

She knows that I don't support this apartment, but should I physically help her? I'd feel like a jerk sitting around while she or other people lug around her stuff.

I won't let her take most things, but things that are hers, or we agree upon, I can't really stop her from taking.

(And in the event of an eventual divorce, i already have photo evidence of everything we own, documented so it can be legally divided up later)

I read about someone on here who claimed that he helped his WW move out and later they patched things up. I'm just going for your opinions.

Yep...unfortunately. My wife had to declare bankruptsy when she moved out. I am still paying back a load of bills, including a hefty bill to my attorney. In war, there are casualties. We are paying for our marriage getting to this point. And you need to realize that. While you are not responsible for your wife's affair, you are partly responsible for the condition of your marriage leading up to the affair. Which means you are partly responsible for the consequences that are coming your way financially. Just do the best you can. Fight the battle. Once the war is over, then you two will have to work together to clean up the mess.

First off, why are you still saying she is going to get your daughter? If your attorney is saying that she is automatically gonna get her, then get a new attorney. Your attorney said it is because she is a SAHM. Well, that would be true if she was going to be a SAHM. But if she gets custody, she aint gonna be home. So she will be no different than you. Second, you can Plan A her...and Plan B her once she moves out. Once you reach that point, we will help you see how to do that. I did it.

Oh well. You are defending your family. While in that mode, people are either for you or against you. There is no middle ground.

The affair isnt over yet, she hasnt gone thru withdrawal yet. Thus, she shouldnt be expected to do these things yet. One step at a time, Gramn.

In His arms.

Your call. I helped my wife move, but I did so under the auspices that the OM was gone and that we were going to use this time to work on us. To date twice a week, blah, blah, blah. Did I expect that she would do this? No. Did I think OM was gone? Nope. So why did I do it? Because everything I did for her would be depositing love units. Everything I did in moving and helping tack up pictures, etc would make her remember me and what I did. It took awhile, but as the process went on, the fact that I did these things, the fact that my pictures were hanging on her walls (a collage of family pictures that stared at her and OM over the TV set as they sat there at night) just kept irritating their relationship. So, the answer is "it depends." You shouldnt be encouraging her to leave...you should keep saying this is wrong. So, I dont know for sure. Maybe others can help with this one.

No problem with that. Daughter's stuff stays though. As well as daughter!

Very good.

As I said above, that is what I did. But there are other situations where that wont work. The WS thinks that by helping her, that yo uare condoning her move. So, let others chime in.

In His arms.

Mortarman says things BEST. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"It is what it is!", GRAMN.

Your situation is like that of most of us.

We were in financial ruin. There are friends I no longer have a R with.. Sad to say, but true,..it's all part of the script.

It was worth it to me to FIGHT FOR MY MARRIAGE and to not give up...

YOU CAN DO THIS!!

Now stop that! My head will swell up.

In His arms.

Isn't there an example almost exactly like Gramn's in SAA? Does the guy in there help his wife move? I don't have my book here with me.

I guess whether I help or not is not really that important, compared to other things. It's just that it's tricky to support her without condoning this.

OF course, if I'm helping her move while OM is no where to be seen, that has to count for something.

IMHO I think helping her move out gives U a chance to spend the day with her doing what you two have know doubt done before so it will seem familiar to her to do it together and items throughout the day will spark memories and reminiscing (sp?).

To not help her is not technically a love buster in the grand scheme of things but it will be seen that way by her for weeks/months to come (no matter how ridiculous and unfair that is). My WW 7 weeks in recovery reminded me of several things I didn't help her with during her fog which she stills thinks was juvenile and made me appear weak. The point is you still need to be seen at least as a gentlemen. In her mind, you got to let love go if you want to get it back and if you don't help that will harp in her fog-induced mind over and over. In the (hopefully unlikely) event you two don't work out she will utilize this over and over to explain how insensitive and juvenile you were. IMO, it's just unnecessary additional justification for her. I guess I could go on and on (like I normally do) and you will just write back saying - thanks ACT, already doing that.

Anyway, time with her is what you need right now. If she's not with OM now, or not with OM in the future, she's gonna have that apartment for awhile. The more familiar you are with it, the more time you spend in it the more you will be a part of her thinking in it ...heck, in Plan A I think you may even offer to paint the walls with her too if you want to get more time with her alone....eventually in your hoped for recovery that apartment you are apparently stuck paying for can be a private place for the two of you to reconcile and spend quality one on one time together.

On the other front. I agree with MM. Fight to keep the daughter at home, undisturbed and untraumatized. Encourage wife to take as little as possible to not tramitize daughter. Tough to do as she thinks she's going for good so what's the difference to her whether it's now or later. Maybe this is where you push her to admit there's hope with one of my "just a chance" lines on her.

Obviously your call and I'll respect you either way. Good luck and I hope you don't post back you already moved her earlier today.

Ok, Friday night I spent a little time at Wife's Apt helping her assemble furnature. I gave her a hand-made Anniversary card saying "Happy Last Anniversary?" and a picture frame with photos of us and our daughter. She cried and really liked both. (I kinda didn't think she would) We went back to our house and ordered a pizza, but at the last minute she went out to a movie with some people. >:(

Saturday I took my daughter to her Grandparents house again. (I need to get away from all of this sometimes)
I told Wife that we would be back Sunday to help her with the move further. Well, while we were gone she got some friends to help her move stuff. So there wasn't much to do when I got back. She didnt' take anything that she shouldnt' have, so guess it went OK, but it's still a shock to see the house so messed up.

After coming back to town, Wife invited me over to the Apartment for dinner.

During all of this, she has been really messed up crying & even puking as she's so messed up over the loss of OM. (They haven't talked in over a week) I try to console her, but it is very strange. I try to stick to the point that we should be a family. She is thinking about that, but this will take a while...