Did you tell OM's W about recent contact? Might be helpful to work with her regarding guidelines/safeguards. She should change cellphone nos. etc...know his whereabouts at all times...

OM likely to try and cake eat as long as possible and your WW will go along with this..She's now convenient for him in the apartment.

NC will be key because as soon as any contact is resumed withdrawal starts all over again.

Withdrawal takes at least 3 to 6 months..

She will not be herself until the FOG is entirely gone...

Like the other poster states, this will take TIME and PATIENCE.

PLAN B still may be in the cards for you in order for YOU to maintain YOUR lOVE FOR HER....I don't think it will need to be a lengthy PLAN B....

Of course! That was the main reason to call...

She even wanted me to pass a message along to my wife: "Please stay away from YGuy. We are trying to rebuild our family." Wife did NOT like getting that message!

Bottom line Gramm, have you handed over the passport?

I know it's hard to see the progress while in the situation and easy to get down. Dude, you are making strides and things are happening. But seriously, you are standing at a crossroads on this travel issue.

If she goes, you've shot your custody case. Sure she'll be termporarily happy and your life will be a little easier.

If she stays, you've still got a custody case. Sure she'll be mad and life will suck for a while, but that's also a continuation of her searching for the bottom before she seeks recovery.......

What was her response?

You know what you might tell your W? That if contact doesn't end, it might be a good idea to have ALL OF YOU sit down[him, his wife, you and wife] to discuss future plans. Why don't you tell W that you will arrange this?

An interesting idea...

An interesting idea... But I can't imagine it going smoothly.

OMW and WW saw each other in a department store a few days ago. They stared each other down. When I talked to OMW, she said that she almost beat WW up!!

And, I know I'd feel like starting something with OM, if I ever see his face...

It's not nice, but it's true...

Gramm, why not just suggest it to your W and see what happens? It would give your W a chance to explain her position to the OMW if she doesn't intend on really ending contact. I am sure OMW would like to hear your W's intentions towards her H. If your W intends on pursuing the OM, wouldn't it be better to get it all out on the table in front of all concerned? I am sure your W would welcome such an opportunity!

What you say makes sense IN THEORY... BUt WW does not think that way. She is not even willing to talk to OMW on the phone. She had been trying to get me to talk to OMW to tell her that they were still in contact. (Sort of to hold OM accountable when he broke contact recently) Well, I said, "Why don't you just talk to her"... She wouldnt even consider that...

Gramm, I am sure she wouldn't, but I bet she would crap herself if you suggested that if she is going to stay in touch with "Sally's husband" [word it that way using the OMW's name] that you all sit down and meet and talk this out. Tell her that is only fair if she is going to be pursuing the woman's husband, she should at least be honest to her face and explain her intentions.

How could she reasonably say no?

I'll have to at least ask her that to see her reaction...

Gramm, I am not so much interested in her reaction as in the message it sends. You are not necessarily asking for her agreement here, but sending the message that if contact doesn't stop, there could very well be a family meeting. And truly, on what legitimate grounds could she object? So, don't try to get an agreement, or even argue about it, just plant the seed that this may be coming if she doesn't stop. See what I mean?

Something I have been thinking of saying is this: "I am not interested in being your "Friend". I want to be your Husband. I am very interested in working thinks out between us, but I can not continue helping you out with every little errand or favor.

Would this be a good thing to spell out, or is playing along as a "friend" a better plan.

Wow,
It seems to me IMHO, that you have lost all of your boundaries that must be accomplished in order for you and WW to reconcile and heal your marriage.
The scenerio you have suggested, between you and WW is incrediblel. If you are not a canidate for plan B then I have completly misread this entire site.
Grahm, at some point in time you will have to rediscover your own worth, and not judge it by what your WW might think of it. You have done your Plan A and done it well. What, may I ask, have you done for yourself lately?
How long do you think this can continue all about her; leaving you and your own self worth in the dust?
IMHO, and I'm sure many will tell me to butt out, you need to start to take care of your own needs and becaome a better man than she is a wife.
You cannot live with this drama and still retain your own self worth! It's time to tell your WW to [email]sh@t[/email] or get off the pot! How could anyone be so selfish as to put you through all of this and expect you to string along until it has all played out FOR HER!
Grahm, it's time you did what is right and just for you, and you alone. Move on my man, if she truly loves you, she will follow to the ends of the earth. If she can't, she never will and you will always be selling yourself short.
Others may tell me I'm all wet with this and I truly hope I'm not, but there comes a time...........
Blessings,
Jerry

I think this is exactly what you need to be telling her..like a BROKEN RECORD..

better yet, "I AM YOUR HUSBAND"....

PLAN B in your back pocket though as we have been suggesting....

Gramm,

OK my friend, I must agree with Shinethrough concerning your boundaries, your self-worth and all things orbiting around your W.

""She had been trying to get me to talk to OMW to tell her that they were still in contact. (Sort of to hold OM accountable when he broke contact recently) Well, I said, "Why don't you just talk to her"..""

DUDE!! What kind of game are you getting yourself into??!!
How can you stand for her using you to manipulate her OM?? You have to do something for you..like maybe go dark on her and concentrate on getting yourself healthy and on the high road!!

Don't you feel like you are getting down on her level??

k

Gramn-

I know that you are tiring of all this, I know that for reasons I don't understand fully, that this is much harder on a man, as far as Plan Aing...and all of that.....I don't know why, I just know it to be true, I've seen it over and over again.

But let me tell you what a perfect situation you have.....I can see the potential a mile away. OMW is cooperating....VERY GOOD, your WW is starting to complain to you about OM....VERY GOOD. And you have done so well all this time. I can see that it's beginning to wear on you...and so can everyone else, hence all the suggestions that Plan B is in your near future.........and I agree that it will not be a long one, she'll be alone, no contact with you except for things about your DD (Which you can have her e-mail, or something).....and OM is definitely NOT going to be there for her....not like she needs him to be, so it's not going to take long for her to want to work on the marriage. But take heed.....it is WORK, it's not smooth....

-Caren

Shining through and everyone: I agree with what you're saying. It's hard to establish these boundries, but that is what I need to do. I AM trying to do things for myself that don't revolve around her.. (I have an interesting story from this weekend, that I won't go into here.)...

As I already said, WW is on this trip. Today she stuck at a layover, waiting for another flight. (Her flight was delayed and her plans got screwed up) She asked me that we send each other emails every day while she is gone and has called me from the airport for support and was saying that she wished I was there with her. I said, "I'll be there next time...". When she is working on a dialogue, and not just bugging me to do something for her, it is good that we are communicating again.

It is good, Gramn. You are putting in huge loads of love units into her bank.

Unfortunately, they are at a cost to you. This is the part of Plan A where everyone says that you feel like a doormat.

You dont have to be though. You do have to look for every opportunity to show her what life will be like with you in the future. How things have changed. You do not have to be used to be go between for her and OM. I know you know that, but just wanted to repeat it.

The boundaries you need right now are ones that keep the A away from you and her. What I mean is this...

It is okay to come over and help her put stuff up on her wall.
It is not okay to come over and she wants to berate you about the loss of OM.

It is okay for you to do little things for her, like dinner or whatever.
It is not okay for you to give her everything, like your daughter or home.

Do you see what I mean?

Look, as Mimi said...Plan B is not far off. Days, maybe a few weeks. Not that long away. She is just now settling into her apartment, just now starting to understand what it will be like without you. Added to that, she is just now realizing that the OM is not going to rescue her. It is going to get pretty lonely for her. Especially when your daughter is with you.

Then, there is the divorce stuff. She knows you are not going along with things, and in fact are protecting the marriage. Added to that, you are seeking custody.

Do you see what this is doing to her? She is being worn down, reality is starting to settle in.

And while all of that outside stuff is going on, here is her husband talking to her, comforting her, being there for her.

And then "BOOM"...you are gone into Plan B. And she has nothing. She has then lost the OM...and you. She is alone, scared.

It is then that your marriage will get its chance.

So, Plan A for a little longer. Keep your boundaries. But keep filling her love bank. Keep on script. And then we will help you go to Plan B.

With the love units you are dropping in, the pain she will experience at the loss of you will be tremendous.

The fog will almost certainly clear at that point.

In His arms.

Yep....Listen to Mortar Gramn.....he knows of which he speaks.

-Caren