When I say things about protecting our family, that makes her think I'm insane...

One time I said that I was trying to protect our family from outside forces. For weeks after that she brought that up saying how crazy I sound...

How exactly does plan B work?

I cut off contact and set boundries. I got that part.
BUT, if she wants to see me or talk or whatever, what do I do?

I read all of these rules and policies and all that. They are good, in theory, but how can we follow things like the "Policy of Joint Agreement" when she won't even consider reading what it is, let alone following it?

Gramn:

"When I say things about protecting our family, that makes her think I'm insane..."

I know exactly what you're talking about. This is why it's best not 2 respond. There IS no response. She won't listen 2 reason, as she's not currently a resonable person.

someday, she will be, though.

-ol' 2long

Obviously, POJA won't work right now. Heck, trying to bargain on what type of toilet paper wouldn't work. While she's in the affair, she is being ruled by her taker. And in Plan 'A' you positively feed the taker, making all the deposits you can while avoiding withdrawals. Then you give her the Plan 'B' letter with boundaries for recovery. If you've done a stellar Plan 'A', which you've done a pretty darn good job of, this will leave her taker thirsting for what you offered before. The key then is sticking to your boundaries that way her taker and giver find balance....

I guess it's too soon to do this yet, but does anyone have a good example of a plan b Letter??

The POJA is for RECOVERY, you aren't necessarily there yet. You still may have to go to Plan B in the near future if she doesn't end contact with OM.

In Plan B, you have no contact with the WS at all. You don't take her calls, answer her emails or let her in the house.

Scroll down to thefurnitureman's post: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

Not quite yet. He is actually THINKING these things, but doing a great job not DOING these things. When he can no longer do that...then we go to Plan B!!

But he is getting close Mimi! Actually, the fact she is relying on him to tell him of her feelings (and yes, she is blaming...part of the process) tells me that she is getting her needs met by him more. Which means he is getting better in her heart. Which means, the pain of Plan B will be severe for her if he continues to do what he has been doing.

In His arms.

Zactly right!!

Hi All.
I was away visiting friends and my brother this weekend. (I need to do things besides sit around depressed if they aren't here)

Anyway, on Friday, WW called me saying that that OM sent her a message officially breaking up with her, saying that he wanted to concentrate on his family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. She says that this trip to see her family has been aweful... I guess they aren't very supportive...

While I was away, she called, emailed and text messaged me a few times, but we have not had any decent conversations.

When I got home and checked my mail, I got my temporary orders! It went as well as could be possible...
1) I have to pay less child support than she had asked for. (My lawyer knows how to do math)
2) I have been granted time with my daughter EVERY evening.
I have been doing that already, but that is now part of the official order.
3) Wife has to pay for credit cards that are in her own name

WW emailed me that she wants to discuss the Temp Orders... It figures...

Well, this is almost perfect news. Look, she has now been OFFICIALLY dumped...whatever that means. The OM is done with her (thanks to exposure!!!!!). Her family is not there for her. How do you think she is gonna feel when she gets back? Alone.

Except for one small thing, Gramn. You have continued to be there for her. She does not understand that. She cant even comprehend why. She gave up her life for OM...and he doesnt want her. She betrayed you, and you stand by her. It does not make sense to her. This is why you get all of the blame. She cannot understand how this all ended up this way.

But that's okay. You see, she is still in the fog...but alone now. Alone except for one voice that she can still hear. Why do you think she calls you or emails you? Part of it is that she has no one else!! Part of it is that you have been there for her and continue to be there for her.

This is why it is VERY important that you continue to be supportive, continue to not LB. No throwing things back in her face. No trying to educate her. Just listen, keep on message, and defend your boundaries.

This is gonna take a little time. While Plan B would completely pull the rug out from under her right now, I dont think it is quite time for that yet. She is alone. She is getting some needs met by you, and none met by anyone else. You are the only one filling the bank right now. I would think that waiting a weekd or two after she gets back to see how things go, and to deposit a few more units, would be in order here.

Like in Surviving an Affair, The main gal there (the WW), after the OM broke up with her, reluctantly got back together with her husband. She wasnt sure that it would work. She thought she was just doing it for her husband. But her and her husband continued counseling and agreed to at least do the things Dr. Harley asked. And a surprising thing happened...one day they woke up in love again.

I know as a BS you want them to wake up immediately, apologize and love you forever. But it rarely works that way. While not fair, you are going to have to know that this process will take time. And she is going to have to take it at her pace.

So, my advice is keep doing what you are doing. Be there for her. Stay on message. Defend your boundaries. And have Plan B letter ready.

Something will happen in the next week, one way or the other.

In His arms.

Great news, Gramn. Don't back down on the court order. Be there for her but make her reap what she sowed too.

Do you know what she wants to talk about? The order is the order. She cant go against it, so that cant be what she wants to talk about.

Maybe it is the fact that she isnt getting as much cash as she thought out of you. That is a possibility. She may be looking at the fact that she has your daughter now, except as outlined in the order. Now she is responsible to pay for daycare or whatever during her time, not you. This is going to weigh on her huge!! She will need to work more, but cant because she has your daughter. Gramn, if this is the case, do not offer more money!! Tell her that you offer for her to come home and work on the marriage, but that you will abide by the court order until that happens. Or, she can let your daughter stay with you. I know you will want to help her and your daughter, but your wife needs to feel the full weight of her decisions. Also, if she cant get it together, then when you all go back to court, it will be better for you in gaining custody of yoru daughter.

Another possibility is that the court order may have her thinking also. She has lost the OM. Her family is of no help. She now doesnt have the money she thought she would. She is alone with your daughter. The pressure may be just what the doctor ordered in getting her to come out of the fog. So, she may want to ask you if you both can shut down this stuff.

Any of these may be what she wants. You stay on message, Gramn. Dont help her financially. Dont pick up the slack during "her time" with your daughter. If you do, make sure you document it, as then you can show that you were the one constantly having to take care of your daughter...thus you should have custody.

Play this smart, Gramn. Let us know what she wants.

In His arms.

Gramm

as a fww please please listen to MM & JL and mel and FF all those other very experienced posters..they have it right!!!

You must not give in on anything right now, even if it sounds so reasonable without a lot of discussion.

You have done so well, we'll be asking you for advice soon!
AW

Thanks for the thoughts.

I don't think things are quite as "positive" as MM seems to, but I hope he's right.

When she contacts me, she usually wants something.
Right now, she wants me to buy a phone card so I can call her later. (So she can ask me for something else)

Also, I wouldn't say that her family is not supportave, but only her immediate family knows of this Affair. So she has few people that she will confide in.

She told me last week that her aunt and grandma intend to come back with her, to help her for a little while. Although that is nice of them, I'm not looking forward to this. I'll probably postpone plan B until they leave. Maybe they can babysit and give WW and I some time alone to work things out.

About the Court Order: I think she is going to ask to change the court order because I get time with my daughter EVERY evening. I think she wants some evenings with her, at least once she is working. As it stands now, on the 3 days a week that she will work, she will only get to see our daughter in the morning and at bed time.

I haven't talked to her yet, but I was considering these ideas:

1) A trade. She can spend an evening or two with our daughter in exchange for ??? --Maybe in exchange for letting the girl sleep at home with me on another night or something.

2) I could offer that she can hang out with daughter and I whenever she wants to. If we're going to the playground, she can come. If we're eating dinner, she can have dinner with us.

3) I could offer nothing. Our meeting with a mediator is Aug 26th. I hope we can agree to something better at that time.

Gramn, it is only "positive" in the fact that she is stying on script and that she is following the path most WSs do. She may not come all the way thru...but she is taking the route so far. Just as we said that most likely, the affair will end with exposure...as it did. Well, most likely, your wife is headed down the path that will lead back to you. No guarantees, though.

Well, let her call. You are in Plan A...so keep the communication lines open.

That is good. Few people to confide in. Very good. Make sure you continue to be there for her, so you will be one of those people.

Maybe. More probable is that they will be enablers so your wife can try to set things up. But unless they are like my MIL, who came to live with my wife, then they will have to go at some point. Then what will she do??

Whatever you are comfortable with Gramn. Look, when you go to court, you want to be the guy who is very reasonable and will promote time with your child and her mother. So, I wouldnt wait until the 26th to discuss this and maybe make a concession or two. Like you said, maybe trade a few evenings, for maybe every other weekend for you. Something that works. Dont give up the farm though. Make a strict trade. While in her entitlement phase, giving her stuff without anything in return will mean nothing to her. Remember, she deserves it right (sarcasm)? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> So, negotiate something and document on how you negotiated, how you came up with the proposal...how you are the good guy here.

So, let us know what she wants. And act appropriately. I agree that Plan B should wait a little longer. Probably until after MIL and aunt leave. You just continue what you are doing.

In His arms.

WW and I have been emailing. I was right. She does not like this order:

Defendant...(Gramn) will be granted standard visitation... in addition, each weekday from 4:45 until 7:45 PM.

She says that she doesn't mind doing continuing our informal arrangment like that, but if it's an order, she'll fight it.

I'd like to compromise with her, but what can I say to this attitiude? She wants all of the parental rights and to give me nothing? How can we build compromises when she has that attitude??