Still a noble cause.

Who knows - if they try they might fall in love.

sheeesh, tell her to give you a little more credit than that! Tell her you'll take 60% and give the Mr. Sleazebag about 40% for just doing earlier what he was going to do all along: DUMP HER [censored]! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, tell her you deserve more credit than that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gramm,

"""Do you know what type of person you hired?". She was very upset and, of course, blamed me.""

That's rich! I hope you retorted, I DID NOT HAVE THE AFFAIR!!
my dear, you did.

Plus the 50% responsible for breaking up the OM and her??...""but I thought, Really? Great!""

DON'T THINK THESE THOUGHTS...TELL THEM TO HER!

You and she have some of the strangest conversations...like someone posted..."you either have to be the biggest coward or the strongest husband/BS on the planet."

k

I would have told her "yes, that may be true, but he made HIS decision to stay married.

Why do you want to destroy a family?"

Gramm:

I believe your wife is on her way back to you. We all know she was unloyal, deceiving and a liar, but it is your job to graciously allow her back into your life. It is difficult but you must throw your pride away and accept her back with her faults and failures. This is the hardest part for a BS.

You have stuck in there this long so don't be afraid to extend an olive branch to her when the opportunity arrives. She is looking to save her pride and she will want to reverse the whole thing on you but you must allow her to keep some pride at this time. The remorse and apology for her actions will happen several months from now. Don't expect that to happen early or as terms for her to come back to you and the family. You must accept and assume your WW has no remorse today and has fully justified her actions. She has rewritten the history of your marriage to further justify her actions. Eat your pride, bring her back slowly for the benefit of your long term relationship and family. In the end, normalcy will resume but you are many-many months away from that. You have much pain to endure in the mean time, etc.

Good Luck,

TooSoon

I'm probably a little of both, and naturally too sneaky for my own good. I often supress the obvious responses to these rants of hers so that I won't make any disrespectful judgments.

When she says that there were parents concerned about her at her job, I could have said "They should be concerned! You've been acting crazy!" ...But what good would that have done?

Or when she says:

"You are at least 50% responsible for breaking up the OM and me: I could have said...""Really? You think I contributed? Great!". But, again, that would not be very sympathetic...
Its a fine line to get dragged into these discussions...
----------------------------------------
Toosoontobecomfortable: She has appologised to me several times now. I don't think it makes a difference yet, but she did appologise...

Gramm, why not try some reverse babble at times instead of letting some of these statements stand? A lovebuster is a disrespectful judgement, there is nothing disrespectful about saying, "no, I take at least 60% credit for successfully breaking up the affair."

That is not disrespectful and lets her know that you are most certainly not ashamed of doing the right thing. See what I mean?

Avoiding lovebusters doesn't mean that you avoid saying anything unpleasant that princess might not like. Nor should you sympathize with her for being bad. It only means that you are not disrespectful. See what I mean?

MelodyLane hit right on it. Gramn, you are right...you do not want to bust her chops. But you also do not want to leave her in the fog saying anything she likes.

Such as her saying you are 50% responsible. If my wife would have said that, I would have told her "I am glad that the affair has ended and that I could have a part in that. I hope for OM's kids sake that he is able to recovery his marriage. As always, I will do my best to protect you, our kids and our marriage."

Notice their werent many "yous" in there. It was focused on what I thought, what I meant, what I am doing and why. It is not a disrespectful judgment to say what I feel and why I did what I did. Now, if I had said "you needed to be reigned in from your immoral behavior," while true...would be a huge DJ!! See the difference? I think you do.

As you have shown, you have developed the art of talking to a WW. And it is an art. the ability to decipher their nonsense and find the truth in it. The ablility to talk to the alien, and for her to begin to understand and trust you.

And by what you are telling us, I believe that she is beginning to trust you. Trust that she might be able to come out of the fog, guided by you. It may take awhile, but she seems to be turning that way.

But to let her frame the truth into something that is not the truth, does not help her. The truth must continually be told to her, repeated to her, in a loving way.

WW: "I believe the grass is purple."
Gramn...wrong way: "Have you lost your mind? What is wrong with you? The grass is green. Why cant you see that?"
Gramn...right way: "Honey, the grass has always been green. it is interesting that you would see it as purple."

So, keep it up. But dont let her babble go unanswered. In these trying times, it is actually "fun" to do the reverse babble. And any fun you can have right now, might be good.

In His arms.

I still don't understand the reverse babble thing.

More examples?

Okay. First off, to reverse babble, you have to understand what babble is. When your WW says something that does not match reality, when she says something that is obviously her trying to convince you or her or anyone else around her of the rightness of what she is doing, even though it is wrong...that is babble.

Now, how to reverse babble? Which is a way to tell the truth to the WW, without DJing or arguing.

You have to tell her the truth in a way where you first use the word "I." Not "You." Second, always state facts as facts. If what she believes right now is not true, dont take it is just another way of looking at it. Wrong is wrong.

But you have to do this in a way that doesnt cause her to get defensive. Notice I did NOt say that she doesnt get angry. She may get angry, but listen if you do it right. She will NEVER listen if she gets defensive.

So, here's another TRUE example back during my wife's affair.

Mrs. Mortarman: "Well, if you really loved me like you say you do, then you would allow me and the kids to do some things with OM, like going out to dinner."

Now, are you scatching your head on that one yet? Does that make ANY sense? Of course it doesnt. So, how to respond.

First, this is NOT the way:

Mortarman: "Why in the world would I allow the kids to be anywhere that immoral man and your immoral relationship? You two want to live in sin then fine...but those kids are not going anywhere near that mess." While all true...this is NOT the way to do it.

The right way:
Mortarman: "Honey, I do love you...and our children. I want to do the best for all of you. I do not feel it is in the best interest of the kids to be around your relationship with the OM, as it will only confuse them. I cannot allow that to happen. I am continuing to pray and work toward the marriage we both have wanted. I do love you and only want the best for you."

Notice all of the "Is". Notice not many "Yous." I still said that her relationship was not the place for the kids, I stil lstated it was wrong. But I did it in a way that she cannot get defensive over. I took her words (that I love her) and turn it into relaity (That I love her enough to do the right thing by her and the kids). I took the babble and brought it back to her in a way that is the truth, but does nto get her defensive.

Need more?

In His arms.

I'll work on that babble...

I talked to WW just now and she says "She doesn't know who is lying to her anymore". That is good... She knows that OM is lying... Still acting all pissy to me though.

I got a call from OMW. She says again that they are working things out. That is good.It seems that OM may be lying to her about his contact with WW though.
I mentioned that OM had checked her call list and she said that she had TOLD HIM that I'd called her! Darn it!

I have to get this stupid temporary child support thing figured out... Ugh!

She is plain pissy right now. You are just her best target. This quote from her is good! Another step forward. Keep it up.

In His arms.

I agree wholeheartedly. I am the WS and the BS and I wish my H would give me this consideration, especially considering he is the WS too. Ultimately, the only person hurt by not forgiving is the one unwilling to be forgiving.

It helped me to realize that many of his "bad actions" were when he was in the A. So, I took all of that and put it mentally in the "Affair Bucket" and tried to forgive it as a whole, as opposed to each bad action separately. I do not choose to live in the past. We each had As and we each were not meeting needs. We spent too many years not getting needs met. Now, I want the chance for a new, healthier M where that does not happen anymore. So, consider forgiveness, it's the best gift you can give yourself. Otherwise, all that pain/anger will eat you alive.

I try to be forgiving, and think I'm doing OK, usually.

But to her, things like exposing a meeting with OM to OMW are me betraying her trust or seeking revenge.
It's true that I want to bust up this affair, but is revenge part of it? Sometimes that is hard to say...

Of course Revenge is part of it, so what?

You deserve it.

I wish I could believe things like this. I woke up today alone, feeling more depressed than ever.

I emailed WW and she asked me to call her. Instead of making progress we got into a fight. She was saying that I couldn't accept that she loves someone else... I was saying that I love her and have done the things that I have to get her back. She says that she'd NEVER take me back. It's all so messed up...

I still believe this affair is over, or close to it, but it does not seem to be getting better...

Gramn, until she goes through withdrawl and starts to see clearly she will be the angry, spitting and blaming WW. Hang in there you have come this far.

Also, Friday WW and I have an appointment with a mediator.
I hope we can figure out some issues, but I don't know if we will...

Gramm,

Mediator like in Marriage Counseling? or mediator like in big D?

k

No, mediator like in Divorce...

It will be just the two of us and this mediator. Nothing that we decide is necessarilly legally binding, but it could save us some major legal headaches later in the Divorce process.

What $#it.

I'm not sure how to prepare.