Believer - what does that "re-evaluation" entail?

Does he re-evaluate if he wants to get back with her? If his plan is working and/or needs to change?

I am curious for my own sitch - but watching Gramn helps me chart my course.

Gramn - you are doing great, brother. I wish and pray for success in your marriage. It is so possible for yours.

Gramm:

What I mean is there is nothing fair about the affair for a BS since you have been betrayed. Her actions were self serving and totaly selfish. Your marriage was likely vulnerable at the point of your WW making the choice to act on her emotions to have the affair. She showed her weakness by making the choice to have the affair. I say her pride is strong and now that the she has acted on her affair and has been busted, she is been forced to rationalize and justify her actions to be unloyal. This is why they rewrite the history of the marriage because they need to justify their own bad choices. She has two choices, move on with her new life away from you and the kids or come back to you with your full embrace and compassion. If you abuse her, punish her, humiliate her, or mentally beat her down at this time, she is capable of going the other way.

Further, when they fall in love or connect with their lover, they simultaneously fall out of love and disconnect with their spouse. You must be the stronger of the two at this stage, even though it is totally unfair and allow her back and to let her redeem herself to you and the family. You must give her the reason to fall back in love with you. Today, you are the rebound but that is ok if you want to save your marriage and keep your family together.

In the future and when she is completely removed from the OM, she will express total remorse to you. NC is absolutely crucial for this to happen. Don't forget, she is still very much addicted to the OM at this time. I hope I better explained it to you. You have a long hard uphill battle but it can be done with one step at a time. You must insist that she stop all communications with the OM. Unfortunately, they lie to protect their relationship with their lover due to the addiction.

Your ultimate goal is to have your WW become a FWW and fall back in total love with you. I beive this will happen since the OM's wife is now in the picture to help separate your wife from him.

TooSoon

She says that they have no contact NOW, but I don't know if I believe her...

Gramn,

Believing her will be a continuing struggle...I still don't believe a lot of things my XW says happened and she has never done anything to make me believe or answered my questions fully. Some of the questions are tough to ask let alone hear a truthful answer....there are times, like today where I regret my decisions to sell my house and buy into hers. I may have made a mistake..because I do not fully believe her..and do not know if I ever will...

so my puropse in telling you this is to let you know this will be a long term struggle for you...she is a liar...and has lied to you. You're normal...

Gramm,

"" She was still very beligerent. I think the point I took from her tirade is that I need to back off and give her more space.""

Throughout this thread you have continually mentioned how grumpy she is. Was she this way before the A? Do you think her beligerence is because she is feeling guilty, or because you broke up her good thing?

She has not shown any remorse, correct? She justifies her actions?

It is ALL ABOUT HER???

k

Today she flipped out accusing me of contacting OMW. I had promised her that I wouldn't contact OMW, and I haven't. I stated truthfully that "I have not talked to OMW". (I haven't really had a reason to anyway)

It was interesting to see her so freaked out about that.

I'm trying to trust her here and she demands this of me, but won't even tell me if she has talked to OM or now. What a strange double standard...

She says, "SOme day in the future when I trust you again, maybe I'll tell you about how OM and I ended it..."
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Good questions Krunst...


She's always had quite a temper, but in the past, it would usually take something to upset her, now she will get upset at just about anything that I have done, or she accuses me of. "You lost OM his job!" "You were evil and wanted revenge" "You want to take DD away from me" etc...



She has appologized (sincerely) several times. But I think it was more an apology for hurting me than for lying and cheating...


Aren't ALL affairs about the person?

Of course she's grumpy. She's turned her life completely upside down in an attempt to be with OM and now she's finally coming to her senses, abandoning her justifications and pigheadedness and considering putting the divorce on hold. I am hopeful this "all about her" grumpyness can be attributed to withdrawal. Also, she won't nor can't show remorse until well into recovery. If she puts the divorce on hold she'll believe she is doing Gramn a favor or she'll be in such self pity she'll think Gramn deserves better. Whatever, I just hope Gramn gets an opportunity to move on to the next stage and out of this emotional heck-hole.

Gramn, you have waited a long time for something concrete and positive to happen and it should. You are selflessly fighting for your family and that will be noticed by her eventually.

Just an idea. Have you called OM's wife lately? If you could call her just to check how she's doing maybe you can get her to slightly be a team player. I think maybe you could indicate that your wife is considering putting the divorce on hold and trying to reconcile. Don't indicate your suspicions about contact at all, just talk and see what she has to say. Your defense then becomes you were just checking to see how she was doing and weren't checking up on WW at all. If WW finds out about the call then you know contact is still being made. Then maybe Mortarman and you will decide it's Plan B time because if she is in fact still in contact with OM then you're going to have to await no contact (with really no means of obtainig it or verifying it) and then withdrawal before you can even begin to work on your marriage. So if you in any way can instigate or discover contact perhaps then it would be time to Plan B.

Something has to change soon. I can see your mojo wanning. Stay strong, if you can.

ACT

Edited to add - forget about calling the OM's wife I guess. You posted while I was writing.

Gramm,

""Aren't ALL affairs about the person?""

You are sooo right, my friend..what was I thinking!??

k

Gramm-

Have you read "Divorce Remedy" by Michele Davis? I think you could get some really good ideas of what works and what does not with your WW. It is one of the best books I have read. It is very empowering and solution-oriented. I think you would find it very helpful.

I read part of it. Thanks for checking in, Gal.

What I find most amazing is that you allowed yourself to be manipulated into making such a self defeating, stupid promise. Why in the WORLD would you ever agree to do something that HARMS you? You should PROMISE her that you will stay in touch in the OMW as long as it takes for her to rebuild the trust she destroyed.

Gramm, I am just speechless that you made this promise and want to emphasize 2 things:

1. the only thing WORSE than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise

2. she is trying to BULLY you into not interfering with her affair - THAT is why she doesn't want you to bust her again by comparing notes with the OMW.

Why do you accept her premise that you are doing something WRONG by contacting the OMW? I don't understand why you do this, Gramm.


How ridiculous to trust an untrustworthy person. You tell her that trust has to be EARNED, it can't be demanded. Only an INSANE person would trust an untrustworthy person.

I don't know who is more fogged out here, Gramm, you or her...

I have to agree with Melodylane. The fact that she is freaked out (panic stricken) about any contact you have with the OMW is a questionnable behaviour. She is still lost in her fog. You will find many many double standards on her part within this time. To get through this time you will need to ignore them all. She has a lot of work to do to earn your trust and you should never promise to not contact the other party, or necessary others...depending on what you need to achieve at the time. Actually other than building those love units up slowly but surely, don't promise nothing! Don't give up your own soul so that she can trample on it. In fact, start doing for yourself too. Decide that every day from hereon will be a happy day, start putting some fun back into your life, build those love units up and you'll find yourself on track in no time. Good luck.

Gramm:

You have just gotten a series of excellent responses from people who understand the steps of an affair and the undoing of an affair.

At this early stage, your wife will manipulate you any way she can for one goal, which is to protect any sense of the relationship that is left as she can. She is not trustworthy at this time. She will lie and continue to play both sides in an attempt to save the relationship with the OM. She is struggling to bring him back but your exposure to the OMW has hurt the relationship. She will likley continue to see if there is any hope to get him back. Your WW probably loved the OM more than he loved her which is typical of women being more attached then the men are in these affairs.

She must earn your trust by giving you full access to her computer codes and passwords, phone records, quit her job if necessary, and account for all her time she is gone. As long as she is in her apartment, you must assume she is in contact with the OM. My wife tried to negotiate she keep her frindship as part of the terms of working on the marriage. When your WW moves home, that will be her first real sign of recommittment back to you. You are not far off from being able to begin laying conditions on her return to the home and family and you must be firm on your conditions with her too.

Most of your posters on this thread are giving you decent advise. There is some trial and error on the undoing of an affair. Some things will work on some but not on others. She fears you calling the OMW and you agreed not too but that is exactly what I would do. I would call the OMW and compare notes. You must hit her where it hurts the most. Tell the OMW what her emotions are today and compare notes with her regarding her WH's emotions. That is your best tool today. Your wife will threaten you and will say that you lose her forever if you call the OMW again, but that is a ploy to prevent you from comparing notes with her. It seems she is still protecting her relationship.

Keep us all posted and don't be afraid to implement things as you need to. I think you are close to getting her back but you have a long 12 to 18 months ahead of you before you feel any real sense of comfort with your marriage.

Remember, there are no winners, only survivors in affairs so don't look for the Blue ribbon at the finish line, since it won't be there. Good Luck.

toosoon

Thanks people...

I get what Melody said that agreeing not to contact OMW was a bad idea. I probably made that promise foolishly, but the point was that I would be open to WW about my dealings. If I feel the need to talk to OMW, then WW can know that I did it. If she is acting strange, and I need to tell OMW, then why be secret about it?

I'm getting really tired of doing all this exposure though.
Truthfully, OMW has provided me with NO information at all. Either she is clueless, or just totally unhelpful to me.
My exposure to her does disrupt OM, but that only works for a little while.

I'll see how the next week goes. If things don't keep progressing in the next week or two, then I'll have to go to plan B.

Why would you need to be "open" with your W about your dealings with the OMW? There is no reason for you to do that until you are certain the affair is over, lest you hand over your only ammunition while being fired on. Wait until she stops firing to throw away your weapons, ok? Lest you get killed.

Promising to not contact the OMW also reinforces her ridiculous assertion that there is something WRONG with you contacting the OMW. Why would you want to reinforce such a ridiculous notion?

p.s. and let me remind you that it was exposure to the OMW that helped ruin her affair and she knows it, even if you don't. Why else in the world do you think she is so scared of you calling her?

I'm going to talk to her today and tell her a new deal:

If she has no contact with OM, then I will have no contact with OMW. BUT, if she is in contact w OM, then any deals about this are void.

THis stuff is driving me insane!

Gramn I'd made a similar promise. Then decided I had to go against it. My solution was to tell WW "I'm not sure how much longer I can keep that promise with things as they are". Then a few days later I told WW "I'm taking back that promise". Then a couple of days later I called OMW.

Not sure if that's any better in WW's eyes, but at least I didn't break the promise. FWIW.

You've been an inspiration to me in my own situation. I'm really pulling for you!

Gramm

How will you know that she is having no contact with OM? The OMW is someone who maybe able to tell you what is going on, keep an eye on things for you, as it is in her best interest that her WH doesn't have contact with your WW as well!

Keep your chin up, you are doing well, your situation is turning around. Take care

by the way, I was surprised the 1st two steps got no reaction from WW. Then when I took the third step and told WW that I'd called OMW, WW was tearful. "I can't believe you betrayed me" she said. But - here's the good part - she only said that once. I think WW may have realized how silly she sounded in light of all her betrayals.

How about this deal: "I will stay in touch with the OMW as long as I deem necessary. You can trust that I will do what it takes to save our marriage."

Please stop bargaining away your defensive weapons while you are being fired upon.