Gramm, but you would have nothing to hide if you DID call the OWH. She seesm to be under the impression that there is something wrong with calling the OWH and has gotten your agreement to make it morally equivalent with having an affair. huh? That is quite nutty, Gramm.

No one has the right to the privacy to carry on an affair. She has successfully manipulated you into believing that she is entitled to such "privacy" and that you are "untrustworthy" for busting her. Unless I have smoked some bad crack this morning, that sounds a little warped to me and I would not let her believe for a minute that a) there is anything wrong with busting her and b) she does not have the right to the "privacy" to have an affair. She needs to know she can "trust" you to do whatever it takes to bust her nasty little affair and that includes what she is apparently VERY SCARED OF: calls to the OMW.

I get what you're saying Melody, but the point of this wasn't about whether I SHOULD call OMW or not. It was that I had been honest and open, and she was not being open with me.

Gramm, but you are NOT obliged to be open and honest with her about calling the OWH. And she CLEARLY believes that calling the OMW is the moral equivalence of cheating and lying about it. It AIN'T. If the police department gathers intelligence on a drug dealer, they are not being "untrustworthy" if they don't divulge that information to the drug dealer. They are NOT on the same playing field, their missions and motives are not morally equivalent. See what I mean?

Please divest her of the notion that you will not call the OMW. And inform her that you are not obligated to be open about these communications if you feel it is necessary to faciliate the end of the affair. She strangely feels she is entitled to "privacy"for her affair but you are not entitled to "privacy" necessary to bust her affair. That ain't right.

Gramm:

I took a lot of heat when I exposed my FWW to the OM's parents. I told some family members too. She told me the same crap about me not being trustworthy and that if I do more damage that I would lose her forever. I felt I was entitled to know everything about the man that was destroying my family and I made every effort to do just that.

I found out and told my wife who the OM was, his address, his license plate number, his make and color of car, where he lived when he was in college, and his existing house address, and that I knew he worked with her. That got her attention. It was proven in my case that knowledge was power and the more I knew, the more she was forced to come straight with me on.

It was exposure and the threat of more exposure that stopped my FWW's affair. You need to tell your wife that you will continue to call the OM's wife anytime you want when you feel the need for more information. Do not let her manipulate you because right now she will do what it takes to protect any version of what is left with the OM, what they did, and of the relationship itself.

Part of recovery is your BS must be honest with you. I think she is aways away from that at this time. That will happen in time though.

TooSoon

Thanks guys. I think she does need to be more honest with me, but she is deep in the "withdrawal" stage. Yesterday she came over to the house (to burn some CDs for her students) crying and saying she misses him. She asked me "will she ever stop hurting". ANd I tried to reassure her and comfort her through this... While I am feeling terrible too but TRYING not to show it...

So, I'm not too worried about exposure now. I'll keep it up if necessary, but I don't think there is anything to expose at this point. And, even if there was, she is CRYING about this affair, not enjoying it. She knows how badly she screwed up everything.

She was saying "How did our lives get so messed up?"...

I wish she could just do the right thing and work toward FIXING our marriage. She is STILL against that!?!

Gramm, she is coming around. She is clearly withdrawing. Just hang tight.

We are not telling you to expose, but to make sure she knows that you will stay in contact with the OMW so you can compare notes and make sure the infidels don't contact each other. We are asking you to stop acting like there is something wrong with such contact and defend yourself a little bit here. She needs to know you are poised and perfectly willing to bust her again. And wont' apologize for it!

No she isnt. Look at what you wrote. She isnt against fixing the marriage, she doesnt know how and/or doesnt think it is possible. That is a whole lot different than not wanting to.

Only time, counseling, reading, etc will help her understand where she has been, where she is, and how this can work. I again recommend Steve Harley to you at this stage because Steve is the best at getting the WS and BS on a plan. And with a plan, there is at least a little hope. And with hope, there is effort.

And with effort, in the right direction...will come recovery.

In His arms.

I will suggest Steve when she is ready to go to counciling with me. I don't know when that will be, but I think it will be kinda soon...

Gramn...donot give up hope now...my xw felt the same exact way..there is no way it can be fixed...ever...beyond repair....remember I am divorced from her....that was how bad it got....so...if it gives you any comfort...know that it CAN change..patience....please...

good luck to you...and your family...

After DD for us, we fought like cats and dogs but no withdrawal for my wife. My wife continued to see her OM at work. It was only after she quit her job and really have NC did the tears and pain of withdrawal hit her. I am thinking the OMW is watching him like a hawk and there is a good chance your WW has been cut off from him. I believe the tears of withdrawal from your WW are good, IMO.

Unfortunately, there are no short cuts through recovery. Sit back and strap yourself in for the roller coaster ride of your life.

TooSoon

I think you are about as close to the truth as anyone. But this "rollercoaster" is a very unpredictable thing. It could end up anywhere.

Yes, I have been there. Listen, understand to the fact that you are a bit of a rebound, for all practicle terms, because of her losing the OM. She had to rewrite the history of your marriage to justify her actions. Reality is many women want and need security for their Emotional and financial needs and your marriage and family is exactly that. My wife told me that her love for her OM was so real and emotional that it was eqivalent to and better then when we met. It was perfect and the lovebirds thought it would be so wonderful to move to Canada to escape the everyday reality that they knew was there.

If my FWW faced the pain and suffering she caused, it dampened the fantasy...maybe like a fantasy sex thing. Emotions are real and they are strong. Affairs have no real cornerstone and they crumble quickly when exposed to the light of day. You are much closer than reuniting with your family than you think.

Once you reunite, it may take a year plus before you feel a level of normalcy. You will, as I did and still occasionally do, feel a sence of wondering and that is normal. I did the PI thing and added computer software to monitor her e-mails, etc. but you always wonder during a typical minor dispute, if she is thinking of the OM. My wife says she still does think of him but today she won't act on it today.

Patience is your best friend today. Work every angle to bring her home. It is a bit of a game. Today, my wife makes me feel special. 18 months ago, she loved her OM and hated me. They come back but it is slow.

I hope some of these words help you. I had to edit since I had a couple of glasses of wine when I wrote it the first time.

TooSoon

Well, I invited her over for dinner tomorrow, and she'll come with DD.

I don't think by itself that "means" anyting, but being around each other every day has to count for soemthing...

OK, now she wants me to come over to her apt to have dinner and watch TV, instead of having her come to the house. Whatever, I'd rather have her come to the house, but spending time with WW and DD is good in any case.
---------------------------------
With this child support I have to pay, and now daycare expenses, (not to mention almost all of our credit cards) my finances are incredibly strained.

If our finances were combined again, we'd be doing really well. But, of course, she won't hear about getting back together, at least not right now. Maybe she will later, I'm trying to be patient.

BUT, I'll probably have to agree to sell our house if this keeps up much longer. (And I don't think this will end soon.) WW has been harassing me to do that for months.
I know nothing is certain, but if I have to sell our house that will take about a million points out of my already depleted "love bank".

She does not understand now, and has not in the past understood how hard I've worked to provide for this family. While she was a stay-at-home mom for the past 2 years going to the Y every day, I was working. When she was sleeping at night, I was often working on other projects until I fell asleep in front of my computer. She woudl just complain that I didn't bring home enough money. And now, I'll probably have to sell our house.

Any money from the sale of the house will have to go to paying off debts. Mostly debts for stuff that we bought and will now have no room to put anywhere.

I can't stand this shi#

It is expensive to save your marriage. Let us know how your movie and dinner went out your FWW's apartment.

The evening went pretty well. I made dinner while she sat around and cried... Again...

I had brought her a couple books to read:
She had tried reading the Harvey book "Surviving an affair". She hated it! She said "I don't want that book in my house! It says I'm a bad person and that we should get back together."
So that one didn't work...

But, I also gave her "Not Just Friends" another book which was recommended to me here. She likes that one better for some reason. At least I'm getting her to read about these issues.

She also talked to OM's friend, again. She says that she needed to talk to someone who wouldn't tell her "He's a jerk, you should move on". Apparently the guy's friend just said "You should move on"...

Gramn, try the book After The Affair it is much more balanced for the WS.

After The Affair? I'll try and find that one. I have a couple other books at home. I'll check and see if that is one of them.

In other news, WW is in traffic court today. She is in danger of getting her liscense suspended from too many speeding tickets! (Update) The court told her to come back in 2 weeks with her lawyer. She could be faced with possible jail time for all of her speeding!

A good one for the WS is "Torn Asunder". It even has a chapter called "The Message of the Affair." Anyway, my husband liked it so much that he kept it. Of course, we are still getting a divorce though.

LOL...well I guess jail could be ONE way to make sure that NC is in place!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Whenever she uses that 'bad person' comment, you should gently tell her that you KNOW she's not a bad person...she's just made some bad choices. But it's all up to her to fix the situation by making the right choices now.

You know...the more I read your posts, the more your wife sounds incredibly immature. Hopefully this situation will force her to do some growing up! Plan B (if you go to that) will definitely require her to do some of that.