I don't know if she's immature, but she doesn't seem to listen to anyone's advice.


That's pretty much what I say.

Today I called her while she was on the long drive back from her court appointment. She said " No one even calls to see how I'm doing or cares aboout me." I said "I am calling you now!" That apparently doesn't matter to her...

?????????????????

Okay, Gramn, you know I am from the same state in which you live. I represented a large municipalities' police department there and have many friends on that department. I have NEVER heard of someone facing jail time for speeding. There is more to that story than you are being told - I would bet on it and win.

Regards,

BB

Well, here is the story...

Ever since I've known WW, she has been a speeder, getting several every year.

Recently she just got 2 a week apart. Thee last one caused them to set a court date for getting 3 in a6 month period. She showed up today and they looked at her record. It's got to have 10 or more tickets in the last 5 years. So, they scheduled her to come back in 2 weeks with a lawyer and said that it COULD lead to jail time.

I doubt that it will. Possibly a suspended liscense though.

Does your DD ride in the car with her? I would worry about that.

Torn Assunder is actually my favorite book but it is faith based and I don't know if your WW is a believer. If not After the Affair is very nonjudgemental and sees both sides of the coin.

Sure she does. There is not much I could do about that though.

Been following your story for a long time. Not sure if I've ever posted, but I definitely have been cheering for you every day.

I have a comment on the daughter in your car...

Arguably your wife is putting your daughter in danger. If she doesn't have your daughter or her car seat buckled in properly even the mildest accident could have a serious result for your daughter.

Does W tailgate? Tailgating and speeding is a bad combo.

Does W drink and drive? Drinking and driving fast is a bad, bad, bad, bad combo. Does she ever drink even the slightest bit and drink, drive, and transport your daughter? YIKES.

Please consider discussing this situation with your lawyer and the possibility of ensuring that your wife not put your daughter's life in danger. Admittedly, it is not graceful, but it would put more pressure on your wife to look at the continued bad choices she is making, and it would highlight the determination of her husband to do what he thinks is right.

If she was doing drugs would you even hesitate?

Best regards and good luck

Many companies won't hire speeders due to the fact if they won't respect the laws of the land, they won't respect the laws of a company. Her lack of care in the car tells alot about your WW's personality. I think it is time she begins to play ball across the board. We all make mistakes but she has got to change her, "I am above having to follow the rules".....speeding, marriage vows, and others I am sure.

Don't give up hope but she needs IC as well as MC.

Gramn:

"Today I called her while she was on the long drive back from her court appointment. She said " No one even calls to see how I'm doing or cares aboout me." I said "I am calling you now!" That apparently doesn't matter to her... "

Don't try 2 fathom the unfathomable. It'll make you crazy!

3 months before d-day, I was driving my W's car with us in it. We were driving from her grandparents former home 2 some property she was considering buying (her OOSP I talk about on my threads). Mind you, this is 500 miles from our residence in So. Cal. On the way, out of the blue, she said 2 me:

"We have nothing in common anymore but the house" (we had just started working on our historic home after a major fire).

I was flabbergasted (and it takes a lot 2 gast my flabber!), but simply said "What? Am I here?"

-ol' 2long

We both do a pretty decent job of attaching that carseat.

I can't think of any time that she has drank then drove with our daughter, but she DOES tailgate a lot. (Got in an accident because of it too last year)
That tailgating accident may contribute to this current court thing too.

Gramn, losing her license may be the lesson your WW needs to wake up and grow up.

Yeah, I'll have to see what happens with this liscense thing.

She is going along like a divorced person. Today she told me about some "Parenting with your Ex" book that she wants and some new scanner/printer that she wants (because I have our existing ones)

I wish she would consider other things like NOT getting divorced. She is fine to spend time with me for meals or whatever, and we are thinking of going to a movie together later in the week, and she mentioned watching an award show at her place tonight, but this is whole situation is really driving me crazy.

Gramm:

Since she is doing all this, you might seriously consider Plan B. She wants the best of both worlds, it seems. You might have to show her what the world without Gramm feels like. Read up on the 180 Degrees. She needs to see you are preparing for a life without her and for someone else. Don't be afraid to be a bit radical.

TooSoon

I'm definately thinking of plan B... I'd like to wait and see what happens for another couple weeks though. We're supposed to go to a movie in the next couple days. I'll see if that happens. Also, at the end of the month she has that court appointment. I want to see what happens with that.

Gramn,

If you wait until after the court appearance and the judge takes away her license then I believe she may really think the timing of your Plan B letter would be ineffective. Though she may get a restricted license, she may really want to rely on you to drive her around. This sounds ideal but she may see it as opportunistic (i.e.-blackmail). Plan B is kinda blackmail but you don't want it to be so obvious. Just my opinion, but you want her to miss all the needs you've been filling not just your chauffeur services. Not that you can't wait but you either do it now or wait several weeks after the court's outcome so the timing doesn't appear related.

Mr. Wondering

As the Plan B Czar here, I have to agree with the Wonderings.

First rule of Plan A is if WS is needing you and searching for you to meet their needs...then meet those needs!!! We must constantly keep in mind the concept of the love bank. Gramn, you had to be in the negative in her account to get where you are. How far in the negative? Who knows? You will know when you keep depositing and then your wife begins to change her mind about divorce, begins talking about coming home, begins showing affection, etc. Until you begin to see that, YOU ARE STILL IN THE NEGATIVE!!

Now, you might not get back to the positive. She may be so fog bound that you cant get there. So, what you need to do is to fill that bank as much as possible (before she has a chance to dump some of it out with historical revisionism) and then go to Plan B...go dark.

What does that do? Well, she doesnt want you to stop meeting her needs. She needs you in her life. She really does love you deep inside. But...due to the fog and the pain, she will not allow you to meet enough needs for her to fall in love with you again. If that is true, then what Plan B does is it takes away ALL needs being met by you.

Since the affair is most likely over, she is already reeling from not having the needs met that Mr. The-Y-doesnt-like-me-anymore-guy was meeting. She is already in pain. but she at least is getting other needs met...and is beginning to settle down.

Settling down is good, because in the quiet of that, while in the fog...she can begin to try to see things more clearly. Everytime she looks up, the things she has concocted about you begin to not make sense.

Example: "Hey was never there for me." But in her mind she is thinking "Wait a minute, was he never there for me? I mean, didnt he just make dinner for me last night? Didnt he take me to the movie and just hang out with me? This doesnt add up?"

This is why BSs do not need to educate WSs. Sure, tell them the truth. but the truth will nto sink in until they have the affair over with and can get the time to think this thru on their own. And once they do, they begin to see how absolutely wrong and silly they have been.

Now, I LOVE Plan B!!! Plan B is where Gramn takes over the marriage and takes it back from the alien. He decides where things go and how they will go. The only thing for your wife in Plan B is to surrender or be defeated. And in surrender, there are no negotiations. None. The Plan B letter spells out the terms of surrender. Meet them, and you will be welcomed back. Dont meet them, and Gramn will begin to move his life and his daughters life in a new direction.

For Mrs. Gramn, this will be true ****** on Earth!! No more Y-Guy-Now-Asks-"Do-you-want-fries-with-that?" to meet the needs he was. No Gramn, who has shown himself the only one to be a true friend to his wife and to stand by her even as she tries to destroy him. But now, he has pulled back. He wont talk to me. He wont come over. He wont meet any of my needs. I have field for divorce. Is Gramn leaving me? Is there someone else? What will happen to me? Will I be alone? Will Gramn get custody of our daughter?

An so on.

She will live in the hole she dug.

I love Plan B Gramn. But I think that you would be better served that as long as nothing has gotten worse (court has happened or more OMs or more contact with Y-Guy-No-understand-morals), then you should lay off of any relationship talk that she doesnt initiate for a little while, just keep doing what you are doing...and watch her closely and see which way she heads. Then, the time to Plan B will be VERY apparent!

I know you are frustrated. You want the "on" switch to just flip on for her. It doesnt work that way. Remember, just two months ago, she wanted nothing to do with you and was running around with Y-Guy-I-guess-I-should-go-home-to-my-wife-now.

Now, she wants to go to movies, have dinner, etc. THIS IS PROGRESS!! progress towards her coming home in Plan A. or progress towards havign a VERY effective Plan B!

Remember, your WW has not deviated one bit fro mthe standard WS handbook.

In His arms.

Gramn -

I think you should pick a date for Plan B - could be the end of October, Thanksgiving, whatever. Otherwise I'm afraid you will lose your desire to always meet her needs.

Your wife is still very foggy. She thinks she is going to continue running things. That is fine for now, but you will have trouble doing this long term.

Also, are you getting out and doing things on your own? Or are you just sitting around waiting for her to do something with you?

Thanks guys...


Not a bad idea... I'm not sure when I'd set it though. I sort of think I'm making progress and want to keep going with that, but sort of feel like I'm just deluding myself and were settling into a "divorced but friends" pattern.

Financially, she is very worried already.

I've been trying to do things. I'm very depressed at times, but have been going out with friends or getting exercise when I can.

I think this plan B thing will be hard... A few times, WW complained that I called her too much. (She calls me all the time when she feels like it) so, i said, OK, then I won't call you. So now I only call her when I really need something , like when we need to meet, you need to pay this bill, etc. So right now, I want to know what's going on, how she is doing, etc. but I am struggling NOT to call her. I know that she will call me if I wait long enough.

Personally, I see a lot of hope for your marriage. I just worry about you continuing to go through all of this. By setting a date, all I mean is choosing one in your mind. Then continue working on her EN's until that date. You can always re-evaluate then.

If you are getting depressed, get some anti-D's. I think your wife is expecting you to be waiting around for her. It would be better to get busy with your own life.

Great Post Mortarman. I not only like Plan B but I like a twist of the 180 Degree plan within it. I like to see the tables turn against the WS. It is not a game but you have to manipulate throughout the undoing and recovery periods of an affair. Unfortunately, MB doesn't work on every case.

I do believe Gramm will save his marriage. All the signs are there. WW is trying to find a way to justify her fogged out reasons for having an affair without saying "I am guilty and selfish". She needs to say, the reason I did this was because of Gramm doing this and that.

The real history of my marriage is back to the real history. During my FWW's affair, it was changed twisted and turned to justify her actions.

Gramm, there is hope and keep doing a good Plan A and be the best guy possible but when the time is right, tell her that you know you can live without her if this marriage doesn't work. Let her know that it might even be exciting checking out new women and maybe you might even find the same loving feelings that your WW found with her OM. Make sure that you are calm and not threatening, but let her know that her affair has caused you to think post possible divorce. I hope you understand my thinking.

TooSoon

I know my H didn't like the idea of my moving on should have we divorced. He knew that there were other men attracted to me and just waiting for me to become available. For a while he was of the opinion that he didn't want me and he assumed no one else would want me...then it changed to he not wanting anyone else to have me. I don't know if the same thing holds true for WW's.