Wait a minute Gramm, she is the one using DD as a pawn in order to ENFORCE her will on you. You have an obligation to STOP HER if need be. You don't stop her by catering to her every whim. That will just invite more bullying using DD as a the pawn. She is not entitled to speak to you whenever she chooses, and she CANNOT legally withhold your D from her whenever you do not cater to her whims.

If she starts using your D as a PAWN in order to force her will on you, you have an obligation to call your lawyer.

But you CANNOT allow her to use your D to BULLY you into compliance. Do you understand? The answer to her bullying is not compliance, but resistence, lest you cede control of your life over to her and embolden a bully.

They could be great allies in helping you save your marriage. They are certainly not off limits. I would contact them and let them know that she has resumed her affair with OM and ask for their support.

oh crap! I blew my cover! lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ditto everything that smart fella from Texas said! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> You call that a cover??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I DON"T want to get to a point where she is calling Lawyers into this, and I DON'T want to make DD a pawn.

Do that mean you are willing to cave in if she contact her lawyer? I hope not. If she does, just let her lawyer deal with yours. Be ready for this.

Keep your resolve. You are doing great.

WISEACRE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Gramn - I have a 6th grader, a 1st grader we are trying to homeskewl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />, and a 4 year old. We are in a lease based on both incomes. I am trying to figure out a plan B. How complicated did you say things were for you???

Just yanking your chain, dude!!!

I feel like if you jump in with both feet like Mel said, that you would accelerate the response to the plan B. I mean, why not? What have you got to loose? If she is gonna respond positively - she will respond most positively to a well executed and tight plan. If you pussyfoot around, she has more time to stay in control. The longer she is in control, the more entitled she will become - because she can. The more entitled she feels, the less chance of a positive outcome there is. And a good plan b will also help you move on, and get this whole thing behind you. With or without ww. If she is not gonna come back to the M, then a good plan b will also accelerate that process. But you have NOTHING TO LOOSE! WHAT do you have to loose??

I am not trying bash you. I am trying to encourage you. You have a great chance at a restored marriage. Look at her letter to you, and tell us if she said ANYTHING that is not in the handbook. SHE IS GOING BY THE BOOK!

Gramn - I have great respect for you. You are doing a good job. I envy your timing - I so wish I had come out of my own fog so early in my WW's affair. I think I would be in recovery now, if I had found the MB plan and gone full steam into it. But I waited way too long. Now it may be too late. But you have a great chance at being a recovery success story.

Listen to Mel. Remeber - plan B is not gonna be convenient for your ww.

God be with you, Gramn.

far

What did I miss here??

I have been doing OK, but could be doing much better at this.

FRIDAY:
When WW called once, I let her talk to DD, but not me at all. I called her to say good night to DD, but again didn't get on the phone.

Saturday:
WW called and I didn't answer. She called again and I didn't answer. I figured that she could leave a message if she wanted anything. The third time she called I was getting annoyed and answered to say "don't call me or leave a message if you have something important" Well, she had left me a text message(which I was unaware of). I gave her a terse rundown of how our daughter was doing. Not much, but still contact, I know...
Later, I let her say good night.

I'll try to do better on Sunday...

Be strong, Gramn. Right now this is a game to her; she is *just* beginning to realize that you mean business and will begin to take greater pains to test your boundaries in the upcoming days. It's gonna get harder before it gets easier, but we all know you can do this.



slh

Hi Gramm

Be strong, hard I know when all you really want to do is talk to your WW and that is the thing that you shouldn't do.

Only thing I have to say is don't ring her when you have DD so DD can say goodnight. You need to pretend WW doesn't exist, otherwise you are still taking her into consideration, and Plan B isn't about that. That is my 2 cents worth.

You have come a long way Gramm - hang in there.

Gramm, just give it up if you aren't going to do it. You are destroying any credibility you have and handing all the power back to her. Plan B is not something that you do one day and not the next, it's success is wholly dependent upon consistency. If you are allowing her to yank you out of Plan B whenever the spirit moves her, then you are wasting your time. There can be no "terse run downs",[a lovebuster!!] there can only be NO CONTACT!!

An NZGirl is right! Don't call her up to tell her goodnight. Your W wants a divorce, let her see what it will be like divorced! All you are doing is protecting her from the consequences of her decisions. She wants to be a FULL TIME mother when she has chosen, through her seperation, to be a HALF TIME MOTHER with shared custody. And you are protecting her from that realization!! At your DD's expense!

Have you called the OMW again to tell her that your W thinks she is getting back with her H?

This Plan B thing is harder than I expected.

You are both right, I'll cut out the calls from DD.

Though I have not talked or interacted with my WW about anything besides our daughter, but it is proving hard to break off contact completely.

Today, I showed up at her place to drop of DD.
I would have just dropped DD at the door and left, but before I turned off the car, WW comes outside and helps get DD's stuff out of my car and asks about our (ever changing) work schedules for the week which effect which days both of us have custody.

(For all I know, OM might have been right inside her place right there!)

What the heck could/Should I do in a situation like that?

If she asks "Do you want to spend Tuesday with DD?" Should I just ignore her or what? This is not easy.
If she hadn't brought up this work schedule/custody stuff, I would have had to email her asking about her schedule tomorrow anyway.
And, although maybe email is LESS contact than a conversation, the result is no different.

I have NOT discussed or listened to her discuss anything besides our daughter, but that is a tough issue to work around. Next weekend when SHE has DD, I might want to know that the girl is alright. I guess I just need to accept that I probably won't hear from WW or DD when DD is not with me.

I STILL have not hear back from OMW, but I can try again.

I don't think it is practical for Gramm to do a real Plan B with having to work out the logistics of a child on an ongoing basis.

If he wants to show they are not friends anymore, he can keep his conversations limited to the child only.

One other option is for Gramm to go after custody. That would send her a huge message.

TooSoon

That is what I have been doing, but I don't know if it's enought. I don't feel like this plan B has helped me at all, at least yet. I still feel as [email]cr@ppy[/email] as ever.


I've been considering that too.

Okay...Gramn.

I have been where you are at. A wayward wife, left to be with the OM. Got her own apartment. The only difference was that my wife left the kids with me.

When I went to Plan B, how did I do it with us having to deal with the kids? Well, your daughter is younger than my my three so some of the things I did were easier. Such as I had a second phone number for the house (Verizon had a phone package that gave me a distinctive ring number, that when called, the phone made a different ring). I gave that number to my wife and MIL. I left the message with both of them that if we were home, and it wasnt past bed time, then the kids could and would answer the phone when it rang that distinctive ring. She could call them as much or as little as she wanted. When my kids were with her, I told them that I wanted them to call me at least right before they went to bed. Now, if my wife said they couldnt, could I force her to do so? Nope. But during custody hearings, one of the things they look at is which parent appears to be the one that will better facilitate the child's relationship with the non-custodial parent. You want custody of your daughter? Then you must have a plan that allows for your daughter to have contact AND you not to have contact. Hard, but doable.

Again, I was where you are at. My wife tried several times to blow my Plan B. While not exactly the same as when you dropped off your daughter, I did have times similar and here is how I dealt with them. Actually, here is how I would have dealt with your wife if it had been mine doing what yours just did while I was in Plan B.

....Mortarman pulls up with kids in front of wife's apartment. As I open the door, I can see wife coming down the stairs towards the car. I reach into the car and get kids out and headed towards their Mom. "Hey kids...look, here comes your mom. Jump out and go give her a big hug." Now this would accomplish two things. It got my kids headed toward the apartment which would stop her from getting closer to me. And that would give me time to get their stuff out and set in front of the car. As soon as I set the stuff in front of the car, I would head to my drivers seat, and tell my kids "Well, Dad's gotta run. Make sure you call me. Love you!" And then get in the car and back out.

Now what if while I was getting the stuff out, she actually made it to me and started talking? Well, I actually did this. My wife walked up to me at a baseball practice for my son. Started talking with everyone around us knowing the deal. You could have heard a pin drop. I just turned around, walked over to my car...grabbed a copy of my Plan B letter, walked back over to her and handed to her...and then went about my business. I kept multiple copies with me at all times. I even had one in my pocket.....

Here's the thing, Gramn. Plan B is for you first. And it is also to let WW get the consequences of her sins. But you MUST run it all like a military operation. You are under orders. The commanding general has ordered you to Plan B. You are not to negotiate with the enemy, placate or do anything else but to pull back into your foxhole and await the enemy's surrender. There are no negotiations. Any attempts to negotiate will be thru your negotiator (lawyer). Remember, you are her husband...you DO marriage. Your lawyer DOES divorce.

So, how do you keep from being tricked by the enemy...especially since in the village between the two of you is a young girl with which both of you must take care. How do you make sure both of you are taking care of her while at the same time obeying the general's orders? Simple. You already have a custody schedule. If things have to change due to work conflicts by either of you (and you should NEVER be the one with the work conflict...more on that below), then you have given her the avenue for her to send messages and receive replies. Yo udid so in your PBL, your surrender terms. So, if she wants to change the schedule, then she emails you with the changes. You read the email, and respond ONLY to the relevent parts dealing with your daughter. No response on the emai lthat states "I want the two sofas i nthe house." That is for your lawyer to do. No response on the "I was hoping we could at least be civil and hangout as a family." Nothing, zilch. That email goes directly to the trash bin. The only thing you respond to is anything that is legitimately the concern of both of you in caring for your daughter.

Now, there is one permissible thing you can do to respond to any other interaction by her. That is to send a reply or hand her (if she is in your face) a copy of the Plan B letter. So, she sends you an email with "Cant we just be civil and have our time as a family for the sake of our daughter." And back comes the email from Gramn:
After afew times of this, she will get the point and you will be able to continue Plan B in peace.

And peace is what Plan B is, Gramn. You are only at it a few days. There is withdrawal for you. It will take a week or two. But then things will normalize and you will begin to get stronger. And th stronger you get, the less you will want your WW to interject any pain i nthat. And you will be able to strengthen your boundaries even further.

The thing to do now is guard those boundaries with your life, trust the Lord, and take care of your daughter.

You, my friend, are now seeing the difference between simple and easy. You course is very simple. It is not easy...not by a long shot. Trust a man who has walked the same road you are on now. Better yet, trust The Man that this man trusted.

In His arms.

Oh yeah...on the custody issue. Gramn, make sure you have NO conflicts during your time with your daughter. NEVER go to your wife and ask her if you can change nights because you have a meeting or whatever. At the same time, if your wife emails and asks you to to take your daughter on a night when she was supposed to have her, then you should take her. And at the same time, get intel on whether it was that wife had to go to work...or if OM came over for the evening.

Why do I say all of this? Because judges will look highly on you as the responsible parent because you never "shirked" your duties. If you ahd somethign during your time, you made sure you had your parents, or a friend, or babysitter for that period. You did not involve your wife in that. You must do this because in her case, she will allow you to continue to take your daughter more often as it will provide her more alone time with the OM. And if you can prove (by intel and journalling) that your wife used her time with her daughter to instead spend with the OM, then you will have a huge blow on her in the custody battle.

And the other thing? Ask the ladies on here what they think of a man that protects his little girl at all costs...that goes the extra mile to make sure since he is the sane one, that he gets custody and doesnt shirk his duty. As my wife learned, and others around me...I was more than up to the task of taking care of our kids by myself. And in a way that my wife and I would have agreed was in their best interests (of course, my wayward wife did not agree!!).

You have to keep the journal. You have to get intel still when it benefits your case for custody. And you have to make sure you try to get more and more time with your daughter. WSs in the fog (in the addiction) will allow you to do that, because all they see is more wine and strawberry evenings when the daughter is with you.

Thsi is a war...for your daughter and your marriage. There are many battles. Be prepared. Do NOT fight fair.

In His arms.

Thanks MM, giving her more copies of the letter? AN interesting idea.

As you said, the "contact" line concerning DD can be very tough with a 2 yr old. I'm NOT complaining here, I'm just looking for ideas on how to navigate this.


This morning, WW called me because DD wanted to say Hi to me. Of course I wanted to say hi to her, and was glad that her WW let her call me. So, should I have ignored that call? I did not talk to WW except for her saying "Your daughter wants to say good morning to you"...
----------------------------
Tomorrow is my Birthday. In the scheme of things, it does not matter, but I'm curious to see what, if anything, WW will do to commemorate the occasion. For her birthday, a few months before all of this started, I got WW a Guitar and organized all of her friends to meet at a restaurant... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I know it is tough. Minefields everywhere. Just have your base line rules...no conversations, stay as dark as possible.




Better way...leave wife email message stating that you like the fact that she had daughter call and would like that to continue. But ask that she dial the number for your daughter and wait with daughter until you answer. That you do not want to speak to your WW, but like the fact that daughter can call. Ultimately, the best way to stay dark is to not answer. Of course, that would keep you from talking with your daughter when she wants to call. You might want to get that distinctive ring line, and maybe one of those prepaid cell phones. Then program in your number and give to your daughter when she is gone. Show her how to use it, so she can push the auto number and it will dial you. If you teach her how to use it, I dont think she will have a problem. I mean, they have these kids now playing Nintendo and XBox practically once they come out of the hospital.

This is what I am talking about though. Dont argue for your limitations. Think thru the problem and come up with courses of action (COA). Then decide on the best one and implement it. Do the very best you can to be dark to your wife. If you can do this phone idea, then when you see a call from that cell phone, you will know it is your daughter and answer. If your wife tries to sneak on, you just hang up. Simple.


Doubtful she will do anything. Maybe in reagrds to your daughter. Do you have her on your birthday? Most custody provisions allow for that, to have the child on special days and holidays. Even though it isnt a big deal for you necessarily, make it a big deal for your daughter. Why? Well, first, it keeps you two tied together thru common functions and experiences. Every 2 year old enjoy's a party! Second, it is a party that your wife is invited to, but your WW isnt. So, when chatty-Kathy gets back with Mom and tells her all about the great time with Dad...well, inside, that hurts. More consequences for her.

You seeing the theme here, Gramn??

In His arms.

More good ideas... As you said, these are new challenges, and I need to figure out how to respond to them.

I'll spend my B-Day with DD. I'm sure she will enjoy blowing out a candle. My relatives already threw me a little party this weekend. For presents, I got several appliances to replace things that WW took...