I still think I need to do better at this No Contact thing. This morning I showed up at the Day Care with DD and bring her into school. Just then, WW shows up wanting to say good morning to her and all that. Then she wants to talk to me about trivial stuff too. I didn't say much, and she didn't do anything really annoying, but the whole situation puts me in a bad mood.

I've been feeling very bitter. I don't think "Plan B" has given me any peace or mental recovery yet.

Maybe just "acceptance" of the affair which I can't stop, and WW's mental state that I can't reason with her, but that is it.

I am still nausiated thinking that DD is sometimes being exposed to OM. It's not very often, but it still REALLY pisses me off. I mean, lets say we do divorce and I date someone new. Would I have my new girlfriend around with DD? NO! Who does that?

Gramm these are my thoughts as well. We didn't ask for our spouses to turn our worlds upside down but we are the ones suffering so much.

I often wonder if we the BS's will ever come to grips wit all of this and be able to move on without always wondering "What if".

Maybe we are just to early in planb to feel the true affects of it. I am praying that soon I will be able to let go and be happy again with or without my WH...

Thank goodness for the people here at MB's and the support we receive.

Lets keep our helds held high Gramm and remember we did nothing wrong. Take Care of yourself and DD....

Hurting

I understand your mornings are probably hectic, but is there any way you could drop DD off at day care 10-15 minutes earlier than usual? So when WW shows up, she can see DD, but doesn't have to see you?

Did you get another car seat?

I understand your disgust about the OM around your child. I am starting to work on digesting that for my own situation. I don't want that immoral woman having any input in raising my DD's. I have wondered if I can put in the D papers that she is not to be around my children until HER divorce is final also.

Keep up the good work. At least you know that she does miss you in some way. A plan B letter in my situation would send my WH jumping for joy.

Gramm...I think that the reason that you're feeling so frustrated with Plan B is that you're not in plan B. You're still in contact with your wife on a daily basis. With that being the case, of course plan B isn't going to do you any good.

You need to re-work your plan to ensure that your wife is no longer seeing you and contacting you every day. She's getting her 'fix', and you're still maintaining your stress level every day by meeting at the daycare drop off point. By letting her ping you for anything that comes up.

Get things to the point where ALL of that contact ends, and you'll start to move through this a whole lot better. At least, that seems to be what I've seen happen with others in your situation.

Well, so much for Plan B. Your WW has you right where she wants you, Gramm. This is not even CLOSE to Plan B. The purpose of Plan B is to cut off ALL CONTACT so the WW can recognize that the OP cannot possibly meet her needs. She will NEVER recognize this until you go into Plan B. As long as she can keep you as her little errand boy, she can resume her affair UNIMPEDED. You have become the enabler of the affair.

So, please don't think you are doing anything to help your marriage right now, you are not. You are helping the affair.

And I am absolutely thunderstruck that you agreed to babysit for her while she went and got it on with another man. How accommodating of you. Unbelievable. I am surprised you didn't offer to pay for the hotel room.

I agree with Owl.

Get there earlier than WW.

Another idea - use your text message system on cell phones.

Mr. Wondering

He's not even trying.

I like the idea of trying to drop off a few minutes earlier than you have been in order to avoid contact with WW.

Somehow, you have to stop your WW from being able to get her fix of you. Otherwise, Plan B won't have the desired effect on either of you.

Absolutely no small talk and making nice. When she does this it is just her getting her own way and trying to normalize the abnormal.

Jean: I'll try showing up eariler. That is a good idea. (I'm already planning to show up much later after WW has dropped her off if I want to see her in the mornings when her mother is taking her.)

Wonderings: I already use text messages, and that is OK for simple things concerning DD, but it is still a form of contact.

Melody, Owl: I agree with you in theory... I want nothing to do with WW or this situation. BUT having DD involved complicates things tremendously. I am not meeting WWs needs in any regard, except her need for a good father. And really, that is something between my daughter and I, not her. Would you have preferred that I didn't respond to her offer that I take DD? SO that DD could have spent time with OM? Is that better? I don't know. Maybe it is.

Most friends who I confide in, even people who hate WW at this point, seem to think that I'll just have to talk to her about DD no matter the situation.

It's easy to SAY "No Contact" but much harder to do when we're shuffling back and fourth a 2 yr old every day or two.

Gramm

I'm with you about taking DD when WW doesn't want her, I would prefer that DD didn't spend time with OM.

Also you have been advised on this site to take your DD when WW doesn't want her. MM advised -'At the same time, if your wife emails and asks you to to take your daughter on a night when she was supposed to have her, then you should take her. And at the same time, get intel on whether it was that wife had to go to work...or if OM came over for the evening.'

The only thing I think you need to do in this instance is get intel on what WW is up to when you take DD.

NZGirl: I agree with most of that. But in Plan B, what would the intel prove? I could moniter all kinds of communications, but if they are admittedly seeing one another what is the point? Maybe it would be good intel for a custody situation, I guess.

I know how hard it is to NC with children. When I was the WS and living out of the house, my H and I saw each other 5 days a week for the kid swap. It was always cordial and chatty UNTIL he started dating. His GF had no tolerance for our situation and she forced my H to planB me without knowing that was what was happening.

That really put a kink in my cake eating scheme. Do you very best to be cold hearted to WW, if it is not regarding DD, just ignore it. I have heard of some couples that use a spiral notebook that the kids carries back and forth for the parents to communicate on kid schedule issues.

She wants you to be her buddy. Friends don't betray each other like this. I don't know what to suggest about the watching DD while WW is on a date. I would probably do the same thing and document every time she shirks her motherly duties to get laid.

I am not in plan B, no where close yet, so I don't know how to do it. I just know what is feels like from the WS perspective.

Gramm, *YOU* complicate things by choosing to react to her EVERY MOVE. *YOU* complicate things by getting into unworkable arrangements that prevent you from doing Plan B. It is much harder because you are choosing to NOT do Plan B. Heck, she can even call you up at a moments notice and you will come babysit for her while she screws the OM in a hotel.

You allow HER to dicate the terms of your Plan B and you and I both know you are doing this to appease HER. You are at her beck and call.

Gramm, your friends don't know a damn thing about Plan B or about saving marriages. If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to do Plan B, period, and quit using your DD as an excuse to appease your W when she snaps her fingers. There are lots of people who do Plan B successfully with small children, you are no different from them.

You could easily change the visitations from daily visits to weekly. You could easily stop answering the phone. You can easily call your atty and get his help in changing the locks on your home. But you won't do that. It would piss her off and the program here seems to be APPEASEMENT, rather than Plan B.

At least quit the pretense that you are doing anything to save your marriage, you are not. You are, instead, ENABLING that affair by feeding a monster. You are contributing to your own DEMISE.

Just think about this, Gramm, women do not respect men they can run over. Nor do they love men they don't respect.

Gramm, this is the kind of thing I mean. Why is SHE speaking to you AT ALL? Why are you allowing this? Her behavior is not the problem here, but yours.

You are not in Plan B, but in Plan "A", and the "A" stands for appeasement and [censored] kissing.

Melody, I see what you're saying to a point...

Before I started this, I had been doing MANY things with WW and talking to her all of the time. Whether or not I have been doing this Plan successfully, there has been a major change in my attitude toward all of this.

It would have been better if I had figured out all of the potential problems before I started Plan B.
I'm trying to gradually fill the gaps, of which there are many. I have things that I need to do or buy to make this more complete. A new carseat, locks, a new schedule, etc.

The other day, with the babysitting thing, I said that I would take DD, but only if it fit MY schedule. Maybe that was enabling her affair, but I gave her my terms about taking DD, which she either had to accept or reject.

Today, I tried to get DD to daycare without seeing WW. I was not standing around waiting for her to show up. I obviously need wake up even earlier next time!

So, whether I'm doing a good job, or failing miserably, I'm trying here!!

Gramm, please implement ideas that faciliate your Plan B, rather than ways to break it. Stick to a STRINGENT schedule for DD, made out weekly and sent over email. And make no changes except in an emergency.

And DO NOT, DO NOT, ever babysit for her so she can act like a ho with the OM! Don't even take her call to ask you to do it!

Gramm

You should listen to MelodyLane, who is an expert in Plan B. I am definitely no expert, never confessed to be, and have never done a plan B, so a novice would be my correct category. Sorry if I misdirected you, it was meant in best possible way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have a good day, well at least find something to smile about.

Melody:

I never had to do Plan B but I think it is very difficult to juggle being a father and being forced to communicate with Gram's DD's mother (WW).

I think there is a practical side to life and parenthood. To this date, I am not friends with my first wife of which I have been divorced for over 30 years. I kept my distant from her and I remain distant from her to this date. I have had to communicate with her through the years but it NEVER let it go past the child issue at hand.

Gramm can do it the same way. Talk to her if he must but never go past the immediate issue. When she asked how Gramm is doing he can shift the conversation immediately to the issue that must be discussed. Gramm will send her an immediate and ongoing statement. She will continue to try and break the barrier that he puts up and he can continue shutting her down by avoidance of EVERY nad ANY conversation beyond the needed issue to be discussed.

His WW will get the message loud and clear. She will know there was a price for the affair and that is the pending divorce and the break of the friendship she desires. Gramm can learn to control every conversation by ignoring anything non relating to the child's issues and needs. Anything other than that will be out of bounds.

I have been big on exposure but I have dealt with so many people who fear the worst outcome as a result. We all must remember that we all have or had our breaking point as a result of our spouse's affair. I never ever thought of suicide to after my FWW was caught in her affair. I was destroyed and I was at my breaking point at that time. You become stronger as time moves on. Gramm needs the baby steps at this time and he will find how he can best deal with this awful time in his life.

I think your advise is sound and it meets Dr. Harley's position but every case seems to have there own little twists and turns. I am not trying to sound critical but I have been reading the BB and you sound like me when I was promoting exposure to BS's who just couldn't do it.

Just My THoughts.

TooSoon

TooSoon, I don't think there is any need for these endless meetings and conversations, it defeats the purpose of Plan B and is not necessary in the raising of a child. 90% of this contact is completely unnecessary. He is only succumbing to her, not for the sake of his DD, or because he "has to," but because he is in Plan "A", for Plan Appeasement. That is the WRONG reason to break Plan B and sends the wrong message to the WW.

That is not helpful to Gramm and it shouldn't be encouraged. If he wants to contribute to his own demise, he should do so without our assistance. He sure won't get mine. I will support him in doing the right thing, not the easy, softer thing, not what he wants to hear.

What is necessary is an exchange of schedules and other infrequent housekeeping issues, which can be easily be managed through email.

Appeasing her and being her errand boy is ruining the effect of Plan B and enabling her affair. She is allowed to dictate the terms of their relations, which keeps her in control, prevents her from missing him and completely prevents him from ever removing himself from her affair. I won't help him on that path, and I hope you won't either, TooSoon. I have much more faith in his abilities and much more hope for his marriage than that.

Too Soon,

What you are saying is fine once the marriage is over with and no chance of reconciliation is possible. But in Plan B, Gramn is still trying to save his marriage. One part of that is saving the love he has for his wife. And he cannot do that if he is constantly seeing her for ANY reason and getting upset. He needs the time of Plan B to get his emotional house in order. At the same time, to give his wife a wake up call and one last chance to get this right.

I had to do all of this. I had the kids with me most of the time. I know how hard it is to Plan B with kids. But it can be done. It has to be done.

Noe, Melody has given some great insight here. I do have to disagree with her slightly on the point of taking his daughter on days he wasnt supposed to have her. I would take my kids EVERYTIME my wife didnt want them during her time she was supposed to have them. Why? Well, first off, that was one less day my kids had to be in that environment. Thus my wife could not make it look acceptable in their eyes. But second, it was good for my custody case. My attorney could then argue (since I had journaled it all) that I was the stable parent, that I never put another person ahead of my kids.

So, for custody purposes, I would suggest Gramn take his daughter everytime she is offered up to him. Oh yeah, and by the way...his daughter will also notice. Even at her young age.

In His arms.