Gramn,

Close the door that she is using to ****** and moan to you. She can't make you be friends with her any more than you could make her be faithful.

Does you DD carry a backpack or lunchbox or anything. Think about getting a spiral notebook to communicate with WW re DD. This was not from a MB suggestion, so it might be anti-plan B, but it was a suggestion from a coparenting standpoint.

Let her threaten legal action. If by some strange fluke law her lawyer finds ground to write you have your lawyer respond to her lawyer. Let them sort it out but DONT respond to her.

Have you considered Plan B? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I thought this article by Dr. Harley mignt be helpful. I often used to refer back to it. This is also discussed in Surviving an Affair.

I interpret the article as saying that often the best strategy for "affair-busting" (not a MB term but appropriate) is PLAN A followed by PLAN B with both being important.

What are Plan A and Plan B?

Gramm, that really is sort of amusing that she thinks she can legally FORCE you to talk to her whenever she summons you. Can you imagine that phone call to her atttorney? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I would go darker until she gets the message. She is just angry because you are standing up to her and she doesn't like losing control. Stay strong!

Thanks for the encouragment.

I think it is all kinda wierd. Why does she need to talk about these things so much? Even if most of them are logistical issues concerning our daughter, she could easilly email or leave me a message about them.

She said that I'm punishing her for being with OM!

I guess even my pathetically bad attempt at Plan B is having some effect...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I havent ignored you. I am looking into your sitch.

In His arms.

Because you continue to talk to her. She is winning, Gramn. And you are losing her. Next time she tries to break through, try to remember that if you dont succeed, your daughter may be living with the OM. You want that? Satan is winning here, and you are allowing it. Your wife is blowing smoke. She cannot sue you to get you to talk to her. What baloney is that?

You will stop feeling like crap when you start doing the right thing and shut this mess down. Your wife has been in a perfect position to be influenced by your Plan B (as is evidenced by her anger at you not wanting to talk to her). But you are blowing it by allowing her to slowly let go of you.

So, I'm gonna ask...when are you going to start Plan B?

In His arms.

Ty Mortarman I appreciate it ...

Gramn,

I think you have done well in taking DD to daycare... I sure would not worry about her getting legal action about you not talking to her. I would think her lawyer would laugh at her.... Keep your head held high and take the higher road.....

Hurting

Because she is a WW acting like a 17 year old in heat. Stop trying to read more into it than there is, Gramn. That is ALL there is. She is selfish and wants what she wants. How dare you take away what she wants!! This is all predictable, and you are still trying to analyze it.


You arent punishing her for being with the OM. The OM is punishing her for being with him. Gramn, when you gonna see that this is all textbook. Your wife has NEVER deviated from the WS handbook. Never.

In His arms

I just reread Dr. Harley's Plan B again to refresh my memory. Dr. Harley points out that Plan B/separation is dangerous and can permanently end a relationship. I still do not see where he points it out as a marriage saving tool or device. I do know every case requires a different twist to the over all MB plan.

It seems to me that Plan B may not be the best tool for Gramm. First of all, he is not comfortable with it. Gramm can limit his discussions to the child only and avoid any other talk with his WW. I think if Gramm implements the 180 degree approach and simply becomes less predictable to his WW, that will work better for his personality and situation. I have always believed Plan B to be, at best, a love preserving tool, not a marriage saving tool. The BS simply keeps the actions and words away from him or her to prevent falling further out of love for the WS.

The 180 plan causes the BS to be different than the WS is used to seeing. It a reverse role than their norm and it makes the WS wonder what the BS is really doing. Plan B has been discussed many times on these BB over the last 1.5 years and it has been said more than not that Plan B is not practical when younger children are involved.

Limited conversations and avoidance of non-child related conversations will serve the same approach. Being forced to be an a$$ to his WW is a love buster and that is what you want Gramm to do. I think Gramm may be heading down the wrong path in this case, since he must communicate with his child and WW. When the WW asks him a question, the Gramm should say that is a question non related to our child and avoid it. She will hate him with this Plan B approach and will not come back to him once tha affair is over.

Just my opinion.

TooSoon

The Harleys specifically do not recommend the "180 Plan"....

In my opinion, this indicates their view that although PLAN B is risky it is part of a strategy for MARITAL RECOVERY.

I understand your concerns. I had the same ones when I did Plan B. I had the children problem also. But, going NC is NOT a love buster. Read the list of love busters and tell me which one of them NC is violating. It isnt there.

Sure, NC makes the WS angry. That is expected. If it didnt make them angry, then the marriage was already over with. You dont get angry over things that you dont care about.

No, TooSoon...Gramn is a PRIME candidate for Plan B! He is exactly what Plan B is designed for. His wife's reactions are a testimony to that. Her reactions mean that Plan B was working, and will work. His feeling crappy when he sees or talks to her means Plan B was working and will work.

If there was a definition in the dictionary for Plan B, Gramn's face would be on it. Go back and read my threads in the fall and winter of 2002-2003. I had the sameresevations. My wife had the EXACT same reactions! And guess what? She came home several weeks after I finally went completely dark.

I have to disagree, TooSoon. I have been where Gramn is. Plan B is designed specifically for his situation...and it was working. If he would just be consistent, then I think his marriage has the best chance of any I have see non here of recovering.

Gramn's problem is that it hurts to have NC. It hurts him. It is called withdrawal. And he is going to have to go thru that. But at least he knows what it is. the withdrawl his wife is going thru is huge also, but she has no idea. Thus, she strikes out in anger and tries to get her selfish needs met.

A 180 is not what is needed here. What is needed is for Gramn to protect himself from his wife by removing her from his daily life, for Gramn to protect his daughter, and for his wife to get all of the consequences of her immoral behavior dumped on her all at once...so she can feel it all and see where she is taking thsi family.

The marriage may end. But right now, unless Gramn bucks up and does the hard work, then his wife and the OM will win...and the marriage WILL end.

In His arms.

It seems that Gramm did a really good plan B. He has to get to the point where absence may make her heart grow fonder. Dragging it out by prolonged mini contacts will only hinder positive potential the effects of Plan B. I do think that Gramm should be looking his best and confident, and not look pathetic or dispondent if he happens to have to be in his WW's presence.

Thanks for the thoughts people.

I don't feel withdrawal from NOT having contact. I just have a hard time NOT responding to her about whatever...
I'm really trying here to get this going.

Trix, I DO try to keep myself looking clean and well dressed and all that. I'm sure that I haven't keepen the house as clean as I could though, and I'm sure that WW was annoyed at that when she came home for whatever reason. I have plenty of valid reasons that the house might not be as clean as possible, but there is no point in using them on WW.
-----------------------------------------------------
A couple questions that have been bothering me:
ANYONE WHO HAS TRIED PLAN B, PLEASE RESPOND
1)What % of plan B attempts succeed?
2) How long did plan B take?

Mimi and MM said most of it but what else is good about Plan B?

A good Plan B brings reality into the fantasy relationship with OM. OM must try to meet all her needs and WW is pissed off in general. It accelerates the ultimate demise of that relationship as well.

Also, the affair partners do not get any BS "input" for their relationship. Meaning, they are used to discussing BS constantly and without that input they are left to try to discover what else they really have in common.

Finally, the BS gets to move on with their life and withdraw themselves. If it is not going to work out anyway what better way for a BS to begin to recovery individually than with Plan B as the first step.

On a slightly different topic, what am I supposed to do if I see OM somewhere?

My instinct wouuld be to call him the nastiest names I can think of and start a fight. (And I'm NOT a violent guy!)

Is there a "Correct" MB approach to handling that situation?
In all of these months I still haven't even SEEN him.

I could just say nothing, but that seems far too cowardly for me.

Hmmm....

Good question.

Of course you need to think about what would be the best possible response for your situation overall...not just the most emotionally satisfying one (like running him over).

If you do pretty much anything confrontational, it's likely to come up when/if you start the D and child care plan. It would reflect badly on you. And there's really not much to say that he wouldn't start a confrontation with YOU either.

Your best bet WOULD be to just walk away. But, failing that...then when you see him...STRUT. Don't let him think that you're down in anyway...and look him dead in the eye when you do so. Don't talk to him, but don't let him think he's got you cowed...just my thoughts at least.

Now, in my situation, if I ran into OM (not possible, lives on the other side of the US)...I'd run him over with a beer truck. But hey...that's just me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gramm,

""On a slightly different topic, what am I supposed to do if I see OM somewhere?""

An appropriate finger gesture could be in order. You will then be in a better position to evaluate your choice of action after his response. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

k