One more thing...let's say your wife is running late and is to pick up your daughter from you at 5pm...but will be 25 minutes late. That does nto require a conversation. She calls, leaves the message that she will be 25 minutes late. Do you respond with "Okay, I got the message...see you at 5:25pm?" NO!!!! You dont respond.

Now, she will wonder if you got the message. Who cares if she is wondering. She doesnt deserve to be called back, and it hurts your Plan B. You just wait until she shows up and then send your daughter out to her.

I hope you are beginning to get the idea here. Any issues she has that changes the norm, they are HER issues. You need not discuss them with her. Any issues you have...like you might be late...well, DONT BE LATE!

Unfortunately, one thing I learned thru my stuff was that the BS has to be perfect. Any setback is a huge setback. You have to go out of your way to make sure you meet all custody conditions. You also need to go out of your way to help build a case on why you should get custody. Start taking more time, more issues on yourself. Dont ask...jsut take them. Stop negotiating the current week's schedule based on your wife's work. I had my lawyer basically outline a 4 day-4 day custody deal until the custody hearing. My wife was POed because her schedule change all the time...and sometimes when she worked, she was to have the kids. And other times, when she was off, I had the kids. THAT WAS HER PROBLEM!! So, I took my time with them...every second. And if she left a message saying she couldnt take the kids for all of her time, then I took them durign that time too. Why? Because I established myself durign that time as the PRIMARY caregiver!! Most of the time the kids were off school, they were with ME. And that was because of her messed up schedule.

Even a year before when she had moved out on us, I had made the kids available to her whenever her schedule allowed it. but that was during Plan A. During Plan B, I held herto that schedule...and ignored any attempts to change it. Only once did I change it, and I didnt ask her. I left a message that I was scheduled to have the kids on her birthday, but would adjust the schedule that week (I knew she was off on her on birthday) so that she had them that day, and I picked that day up later. Now, what if she had plans and couldnt have the kids? That would have been great too. You see, to the court, here I was offering time for my wife on her birthday, but she would rather go out. I looked like the accomodating parent (which I was...I really wanted my kids to spend time with their mother). And she looked like she could care less.

I didnt negotiate with her. I didnt say "Do you want me to chaneg the schedule this week so the kids can be there on yoru birthday?" I TOLD her that I would change the schedule and they would be there on her birthday. Again, if she had said "no," then I would have kept them...and logged this into my journal for the court to see.

Gramn, they dont call me the Plan B Czar for nothing. Plan B is standing up for your family. And sometimes it means being a mean SOB. A pitbull.

There is no POJA in Plan B. Only Gramn's way. Those that are still in the family have a vote. those that have left...get none.

In His arms.

Thanks, as usual.

I think part of my problem is our complicated current custody arrangment.

As it stands I get DD a lot of the time when WW is working. That is fine sometime, but it is also meeting her needs. I probably need to come up with a better schedule. I am sick of fighting over this though...

What EXACTLY does the custody arrangement say?

In His arms.

We alternate weekends,.

I have DD on Wednesday night and 1 other day a week (which changes as necessary)
I also have DD in weekday evenings when WW is working, or other times when I want to.

WW has her on the other 3 weekdays.

So, based just on sleeping arrangments, I have DD 12 nights a month to WW's 18 nights. BUT, based on time spent w her, it's pretty equal.

We also have a vague shared parenting plan and the "Right of first refusal" set up.

We came up with this plan with the Court Mediator, (back when WW was considering putting the D on hold and things were a little better) and it is better than the previous arrangment, in which I only got DD on every other weekend, and every evening until 7:30, but not overnight)

Hard to enforce with such vagueness. You should not have to accomodate her work schedule. You are not her babysitting service.

In His arms.

MM,

Such a vague custody plan is not good for Plan B.

Isn't it true a final custody arrangement will not be made until the divorce is final?

She already filed for a change in the Temporary Custody Order and I presume that is why they went to the Mediator. Shouldn't Gramn file for a change in the Temporary Custody Order? He could base this on a change in circumstances (i.e.- OM and WW are back together and the order needs to reflect OM is not to be in contact with DD and/or some work conflicts he could generate.)

He could seek your 4 day/4 day custody plan. As it stands now she won't demonstrate much "abandonment" since she gets to call the shots with "right of 1st refusal". IMO, that was not a wise thing to agree to. What right does the infidel have to call the shots.

What does our fearless Plan B leader think?????

Mr. Wondering

Gramm,

I just caught up with the thread and read her email.

""You and I have very different ideas of what makes a marriage work,""

I didn't know there were so many variations on making a marriage work! It would be interesting to get a list on her ideas of making a marriage work.

Of course you can't now...and don't!

""I tried so hard to be happy, to feel that I needed to be where I was at the time and it was hard to come to the realization that I simply wasn’t""

So many I's and me's in her email, which is to be expected.
Fogbabble.

Stay dark. Use the notebook. On my cell phone, when it rings if I am on the other phone at work, or in a meeting, I can hit a button and it does go to voice mail. Why doesn't your phone have a button like this?

As has been discussed before, you have Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up. These holidays are the hardest to get through in our situation. I would suggest a strict schedule be done now to keep the contact at NIL or at least to a minimum.

I know NC is hard when the DD is involved. I believe you are learning as you go and will get better at it as it unfolds.

You are a good father and a fine gentleman. Keep thinking to yourself that it was her choice and her loss. You must find your "self" and become full of confidence and great self esteem, keeping yourself on this high road that you occupy so well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

k

Very vague!


Yes. But it usually reflects the temporary custody, unless there were huge problems...or one person gets primary.


I think he revisits this custody arrangement. Have it set in stone. It will be to his advantage as his wife will have scheduling problems...leaving him to fill in those dates...and get more custody. that way, when they go...he will have been the primary all along. He has to shut this down. Right now, it only benefits his wife. He should be doing nothing to benefit her.

In His arms.

Hi Gramm,

quote:------------------------------------------------------
As it stands I get DD a lot of the time when WW is working. That is fine sometime, but it is also meeting her needs. I probably need to come up with a better schedule. I am sick of fighting over this though...
-----------------------------------------------------------

I agree. A better schedule may be needed.

But try also not to be too available for changes in scheduling once set.

In my case, our two boys are old enough and basically the schedule is simply one week each. But WH freelances, and I am open to rearrangements (with advance notice when possible) anf for emergencies. It didn't stop him from testing this out this week. WH had the boys.

He calls me Friday morning at work. S9 had vomitted and he couldn't get out of committments in the afternoon and was it possible for me to look after him for the afternoon (he knows it's easier for me to take a few hours off work). I said, yes, and was happy to make my little one a soup and spend the afternoon with him (but it was hard seeing him leave again).

WH then calls me Saturday night, first asking if we can talk. I said, no, the arrangement is to leave each other 'messages' unless it's an emergency. So, he leaves message saying he had problems re Sunday because he was working and could I lookafter S9 again.

I like 'messages only' because I can think about my answers. So, before saying, yes, I left message asking: and what part of that was unforeseeable?

His reply was that, yeah, he was calling at the last minute, and he should have checked with me earlier, and that he had made other arrangements. Now, I left it at that, not because I wasn't available, but because I don't want WH to continue to take me for granted like he did in our M.

Actually, if you check my thread, this past weekend, after a few months of PLAN B, WH wanted to negotiate my PLAN B request of not see him or speak to him, finding this business of only leaving each other 'messages' as artificial.

So, don't be surprised if your WS's attempts to persuade you to be 'friends' for the sake of DD continue. Be prepared.

I agree with Mortarman. I may find PLAN B to be very lonely, but I feel much more in control of what I do than I have ever felt. Try to straigthen out your arrangements so you can get there too. If you recover your M all the better.

So, whenever you have the urge to communicate with your WS, ask yourself the questions: Does she really really need to know this? and what difference will it make it she doesn't? Something similar with her request.

As Mimi keeps saying: in PLAN B it's a good sign when WS show signs of not liking it. How else will they question their choices if they don't experience any of the 'negative' consequences of their choices?

Good luck, Gramm.

I have concerns with this as you state the final order USUALLY reflects the temporary one. Since he capitulatted to current temp order doesn't that mean he must object to the current Temp Order eventually. I mean he must at least object on the record that this plan is UNACCEPTABLE.

If he files to change the Temp Order they will likely have to go to a Mediator again who will attempt to procure another "compromise" arrangement. Gramn shouldn't be "compromising" anything and we know she won't so he will have to take it to the judge for a decision. This is costly, timely, Contact in Plan B and maybe unproductive if he has not built up a strong case against WW. The judge may not like changing a plan that is in place and Gramn signed off on.

Although the 4 day/4day arrangement is desired I think he may be stuck for a little while. I think maybe he should journal everything through the holidays with the current temp order and then in January go for Temp Order giving him full primary custody based on her misconduct under current plan. If you go now, how sympathetic is the judge going to be to Plan B. The court will likely counsel him to be "friendly" for the sake of the kid. They are not about saving marriages.

I forget when is the divorce supposed to be final anyway. So some of this decision is dependent upon when that hearing is supposed to go down (hopefully never).

Mr. Wondering

Yes. I have said this before. When the permanent order comes in, it will give one or the other primary custody, with the other one having visitation. One of the big reasons (besides she abandoned me and the kids twice) that I got custody was that my schedule was set in stone. Hers, as an ER nurse, was all over the place. So, I got primary with her getting visitation. I had expressed during the hearing that I would make sure that the kids would be with her as much as possible, and as much as her schedule would allow.

But all of that was set up by my making sure that I was the go-to guy during Plan B. During when she left. I made sure that she could always see or talk to the kids when she had time.

Gramn has to make this a no-duh for the judge. To do that, he might have to take his daughter sometimes, enabling her to do other things. But right now, he is enabling her and it is sanctioned underthe order. With set days and times, then when she misses her time, it goes to show how lousy she is and how great Gramn is.


All very correct. That is why he needed the original set up better. But water under the bridge. Thats why I have suggested email, with them every two weeks setting the schedule in stone. As a matter of fact, jsut set the current one in stone. Then, if she wants to change it...he just says "no." Actually, he doesnt respond at all.


Yep...you are correct. I think he will have to go back to court, but he has to first get Plan B rolling, then set up everything in his life so that he has journaled how great he is and she isnt. So, your plan there is very much correct.


Not sure.

In His arms.

Lots of good points there Mr. WOndering. These are all the things that are concerning me now.

Our dicorve pretrial is Dec. 27th and final trial for some time in Jan.
Of course, the custody arrangments are not dependant on the divorce stuff. They are related, but seperate. Our current arrangment is still changable. BUT, as you guessed, if I want to change it, I'll probably have to try and negotaite w WW. Something that I don't want to do now, and shouldn't do during Plan B. In any case, the last time we discussed the custody arrangment, we couldn't agree to any changes either.

SO, this would mean MORE legal stuff, which I really can't afford at all. I've already borrowed money to pay my Lawyer once.

I knew this was a concern. I wish you could take the forms your wife used and file to change it soon. You could go to the Mediator again and at least put your objection to the current situation on the record and probably get a better compromise.

Keep journaling. She will hopefully delay the January hearing. You can delay it also by switching attorneys. Your new attorney will have to get caught up to speed on the file and adjourn any hearing. If everything proceeds without wife changing her attitude you may want to delay the hearing (maybe not-up to you).

I will be out of town and off-line for a week.

Good luck staying DARK,

Mr. Wondering...signing off.

I'll look up some stuff and talk to my attorney about trying ot adjust the custody stuff.

Now she sent me an email about dividing up our stuff, listing things that we need to decide on. I will ignore it, but I know she'll keep pestering me...

Gramn:

If she pesters, send her a copy of the plan B letter again with the cover note that she needs 2 send all correspondence about the DV settlement 2 your lawyer, not you.

Block her emails.

-ol' 2long

Well, I have maintainted my plan for the last couple days. So far so good. I'll see how it goes tonight w haloween...

----
I talked to my Lawyer about wanting less switching in the custody plan. He says that is possible, but it might look bad from the "shared Parenting plan" perspective.

He also wants me to start coming up w a list of all of our stuff to divide up...

Just wondering why you are celebrating Halloween tonight and not Monday night the 31st where you live? If kids went out tonight where I live, no one would be ready for them.

All of the communities in this area do it tonight.
An hour away, people in my parents town are doing trick-or-treat on Sunday night.

In either case, I don't know why.

Well, Halloween went OK. I had more contact than I should have during the transfer of getting DD's costume on, but I did a pretty good job. WW was upset and crying because I didn't want to go trick or treating with her too.

While saying her goodbye to DD she said something like "I'm sorry that Daddy hates me" which really annoyed me. I made sure to document that.

SHe tried to discuss dividing up our stuff for the divorce. I just looked at her funny.

I'm sure I said something to her during all this, but mostly I just left the room until she was gone.