OK, the nursing home that my mother lives in is trying to evict her ~ again. The reason they are sighting is that she is a danger to herself, and also that she is infringing upon the rights of the other residents. I guess my question is, where do her rights begin and end, vs. those of the other residents that she co-habitates with. It all seems very black and white, but I am now stuck in this area of gray.

We are meeting the the care center, and the ohmbudsman (sp?) Tuesday, and I would like to get my thoughts clear on this subject before then, to present my "case."

Here is what I have posted on another thread. Please let me know what other information you might need.


Does anyone know how this should fall? Last time the judge ruled that the nursing home she is in is a level (I can't remember exactly) B or something, and that was the level of care my mother requires ~ so they were forced to keep her. We asked her doctor about medication changes, and he said he didn't want to change her meds again (but wanted to send her somewhere else for evaluation for med changes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> WHICH the facility wouldn't do, because she is too YOUNG!); said doctor also told my aunt that the staff has gone above and beyond their duty to care for my mother, and that we can't expect them to take care of her until she dies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Where does my mother's right to reside in a skilled nursing facility, that claims to have the capacity to care for people such as her, end ~ in favor of her not yelling at other residents randomly in the halls and in the dining room? It all seems so gray.

Because if they can't keep her there, where will she go? Doesn't she have a right to have a home, too?

Spidey, who might not be able to see the forest for the tree pressed up against her face.

Spidey - I really feel for you. It is an awful position to be put in. I think I told you that we went through this with my WH's mom. She got thrown out of 5 different nursing homes. Each time she got put to the curb, she ended up farther from our home. Finally she ended up 60 miles away.

My WH and I visited her twice a week, and it was a real drag. She was on welfare, and I think that was part of the reason the different homes didn't want to put up with her. But her behavior was horrible too.

She finally ended up at a place that specialized in "non-compliant" people. She was there a week. We went to see her, and she had bruises all over her body. My WH immediately demanded she be discharged. She went back to the last nursing home the next morning, and died that day. Whatever you do, don't let that happen to your mom.

believer, that is EXACTLY what we are trying to prevent! Most people don't know their loved one's rights, until it is too late. IF we had signed her discharge papers yesterday, the care center (her HOME) would NOT have had to take her back ~ even just under the "pretext" of testing at another facility.

The Ohmbudsman (sp?) that works for patient's rights, covers almost the entire state of Idaho! Counties that are 4+ hours of driving away! One person! And she gets paid about $20K a year. Most families don't even know their loved one's HAVE a representative.

My personal opinion, and that of the rest of my family here, is that they are tired of taking care of her. She is wearisome, and high maintenance, which is why we can't take care of her at our homes. BUT . . . that is their JOB, isn't it? They can't just slough her off to someone else.

We looked into a place called the "Good Semaratin Home" here, because they deal with brain damage/trauma. BUT, when my aunt visited it, there were people of all ages there, wandering around, some young men with ankle braclets on ~ like, from the police, tracking! If she goes propositioning at a place like that, who knows what will happen to her there.

At least at the nursing home, it is a bunch of old men. They don't move very fast, and she's probably stronger and faster than every single one of them!

This is aweful. Everyone, please pray that this all works out for the best for my mother. She didn't plan on becoming this way, she doesn't do it on purpose. Imagine, living in a nursing home since you were in your 40's! And I feel she is being punished, ostracized, for her disability.

Again, I am very close to this subject.

Spidey

Gees hon I don't have any ideas for you, but I wanted to give you a huge cyber hug {{{{spidey}}}}}.

Lots of prayer going your way ^O^.

HINY

Spidey, you probably have all this info....

http://www.nccnhr.org/pdf/TRSFDISCSHT.pdf

I know how hard it is. I don't know about Idaho, but in California what the nursing homes do is send the patient to a hospital for something. Then when the patient is ready to be discharged, the nursing home claims they don't have a bed.

That is how my MIL got switched from nursing home to nursing home. It is just sad. She started out right near our home, and just kept getting farther and farther away.

She got into the "non-compliant" place because the nursing home said that she signed a request for it. We were not informed. Also when we found her, she said she did not sign anything. Who knows?

I will pray for your mom and your family. It is really a difficult situation. My MIL was horrible. She bit the hand that fed her. There was an aid in her last place that would sneak her "treats" - she loved to eat. Then she turned around and called him a F'ing N word.

I tried to talk to her, but it was useless. She just was too far gone.

Thank you, tqt. I bookmarked it. Sent me right to Idaho's system.

If our meeting doesn't go well on Tuesday, my aunt is considering going to the press. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Maybe before that, we could contact some of these support groups that your link provided, and ask their opinions.

THANK YOU! You ROCK

Spidey

Yep, that is what they tried to do last time, 5 years ago. The man that was involved in "the incident" got shipped out and never came back. His family did not know what they were doing when they signed those papers. The Home said, "Just for testing, evaluation." Then when the testing was done, they said, "Sorry, we choose not to accept him back." And they didn't have to.

We feel we are fighting for her rights. I just don't want to trample on anyone else's in the process. Does that make sense?

Spidey

Then you may have found this already...

http://www.healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/_Rainbow/Documents%5Cmedical/Appendix%20PP.pdf

Didn't! Thank you again so much. GREAT information. I guess I should have gone searching for more information, instead of panicking and whining to all you fine folks!

Spidey

Spidey - My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family during this trying time. When I was in high school my grandfather had alzheimers and had to go to a nursing home. He would tend to wander away and get lost, and get very angry and frusterated at time. He was a PHD physisist who did work on splitting the atom, to not even knowing his own family. We went through several nursing homes until we found the right fit. We are blessed, in that we live in the Washington DC area and have access to so many specialized care centers and found one that specialized in alzheimer patients.

I'm sorry I don't have any advise or information to give, just know I'm here saying a prayer for you. Take care.

K

Thank you so much, Kloe. I am hoping for a happy ending here, too. I appreciate all prayers and well wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Sorry Spidey...
could not log in yesterday from home...

Here are some of my suggestions...

1. Educate yourself from what the people at the nursing home are telling you...there is a distiction between the level of care needed ie..personal care...skilled care...acute care....find out exactly what these mean in your state and what are the criteria for each placement.

2. I think you should seriously seek out a neurologist to see and DIAGNOS you mom....
Her issues sound very similiar to issues presenting in traumatic brain injuries...the frontal lobe system is our emotional or limbic system...it is the part of the brain that puts the stoppers on us from acting out impulses...

her perseveration on sexual issues is a typical symptom of frontal lobe altercations....

We looked into a place called the "Good Semaratin Home" here, because they deal with brain damage/trauma. BUT, when my aunt visited it, there were people of all ages there, wandering around, some young men with ankle braclets on ~ like, from the police, tracking! If she goes propositioning at a place like that, who knows what will happen to her there.

spidey...post traumatic brain injuries are my speciality...
have worked mostly rehab....and specializied with these patients....

this actually may be the exact environment in which your mom could thrive....

typically TBI are a younger population so that your mom would actually be with people closer to her age, life experiences, and issues....IE families with residents there...

this would bring you in to contact with staff members that are accustomed to her type of acting out behavior and they are most likely best able to deal with her acting out...

Your mom may really benefit from a well educated staff who do not get their own knickers in a bind when someone is overtly sexual in speech...it becomes like water off a duck with redirection and reorienting to task at hand..

Also know that as your mom does well in a structured environment....and places that are good with TBI's are well aware of this and incorporate this in to their program...

some young men with ankle braclets on ~ like, from the police, tracking!

spidey don't let things like this skew your impressions...
things like wander gaurds are a godsend to patients with such disabilities...we use alarms at our acute care...this allows our patients the most freedom they can have while maintaining their safety....

we use rear fastening seat which helps keep impulsive people injuring themselves....

typical TBI patients have short and long term memory defecits...they need gobs of redirction supervision and re-orienting....and while violence and acting out can occur...they are usually not the typical...and good facilities have experience with this...and be sure that EVERYONES safety is first and formost...

The environment of a nursing may be part of the reason your mom acts out at times..
lack of structure

lack of staff education

staff response to her sexual acting out which is too subjective and not objectively handled as it should be...

lack of stimulation for mom to redirect her to activities...

BOREDOM!!!!

The right diagnosis/slash recomendation may very well be your key here...in getting her proper placement....

This does not mean that I agree with nursings home knee jerk reaction to her behavior...

They need to be willing to educate themselves as well...
they need to get over their own uncomfortableness with your moms behavior and stop applying their own fears over someone who is verbalzing sexual issues...and redirect her...
She needs support as do the other patients and their families...
staffs response to your mothers behaviors plays a MAJOR role in families of other visitor and they darn well should be protecting and advocating for your mom's physical issues rather than feeding in to them and labeling them....
they need to advocate for HER
and not get all offended or subjective about her behaviors..it is not something she is in control of...

she needs constant redirection with in a behavior mod program to assist her in structuring herself....

Also a good neurologist should be able to look at her medications and see what she might benefit from...either addition or removal of current meds....

Look into medical centers around you that have trauma units they will most educated in where people go with such issues...

Also check in to alzheimer programs they are also usually stuctured as well...

blessings to your mom spidey....

ARK^^

Thank you, ark. My mom has been diagnosed with Multiple Schlerosis, but she isn't like any other MS patient I've ever met! Her 5th H OD'd her on some powerful psychotropic drugs, and she was in a coma for 2 days. She hasn't been the same since. Her MRI's show soo many spots on her brain, so she definately has a lot of damage.

My problem with the neurologist and such, is the red tape we run into with Medicaid/Medicare. I guess I will just have to venture forth into that unknown and figure this all out.

Unfortunately, we don't have a whole lot of progressive places here. I haven't been the that Samaratin home I told you about ~ my aunt went, and she was very uncomfortable and did NOT want to put mom in there. Maybe if she knows those bracelets and stuff weren't from the police, but as part of the program? Although, she saw cops walking with some of these people. I don't know. I need to just get over there myself and take a look. My aunt is sometimes a bit, er, hysterical.


She needs to be in a Skilled Nursing Facility. In fact, I think if we want to change her to more of a brain damage home, we have to change her Medicaid/Medicare classification! That is what I gathered from the papers I was reading yesterday. Then, the quesiton is, would she qualify for that kind of care? Would we have to get her a whole new diagnosis?

It all seems so overwhelming, the stakes so high! I KNOW I can't take care of her, so I have to make sure she has SOMEplace to live. These nursing homes can be tricksters, with discharging and evaluating and such.


You are exactly right. This is what is NOT working right now. They seem to take her behavior personally sometimes. Who would live in a nursing home on purpose? She cannot control herself!

Thank you, ark. I appreciate your words. I did not know about the frontal lobe thing. I am just feeling overwhelmed.

Spidey

Update!

Unfortunately, I believe the NH does NOT have my mother's best interests at heart. They told us today that she is stalking male residents. That her sexual talking has escalated, that she needs to go to a behavior unit in another city 30 miles away ~ and, get ready for this, it is the same place she was raped by 3 orderlies 10 years ago. The same facility that fired the employees, and covered up the crime.

After talking with the staff that works with my mom each day, I discovered that 1)she doesn't talk about SF, they think one of the male CNA's is egging her on, thinking it is funny what she talks about when he does it, and 2)the male resident they say my mother is stalking, is actually a mean man who tells all the residents to "Shut up," and he has been following her around making fun of her, and making clucking noises at her. So she gets angry and yells at him.

And they have all told the administration this, and they are ignoring it.

They weren't interested in changing her care plan, changing her meds ~ although we are now, with the insistence of the ombudsman. Her last med change was last November! They thought it was like 6 weeks ago. They aren't even looking at the facts! Ugh.

And even though they say this other behavior place has changed, would we not be derelect in my mother's interests to send her BACK THERE? The NH even admitted there was no other place to send her besides this behavior place 30 miles away. Last time, it took her 3 years to settle down in her new home, and that was with her best friend, the Acivity Director trasnferring with her (because the other facility shut down).

And how often could we get over there, the family? 30 miles away? 1 hour round trip? It is hard enough with her 2 miles away! The staff is telling me that she is just fine. They love her.

My aunt and I agreed to go visit this facility. We are going a week from this Friday. However, we are also going out THIS Friday, unannounced.

Grr.

Spidey

No need to reply Spidey... just want to let you know there are people thinking (aka worrying) about you... and hoping things are going ok.