Errn,

If you are still reading this thread...


I DO understand hurting, fearing being alone, and a host of other difficult circumstances. I was married for 20 years to an alcoholic. I'll spare the details. We are DV now because he is still actively involved with the object of his 2nd affair.

However...a number of years ago, I was a WS. While the PA was brief, I was very emotionally attached to him for months prior (before I knew what an EA was--I just thought we were good friends). I do understand both what it feels like to be betrayed by a WS AND what it feels like to BE the WS.

Out of fear, and pain, and loneliness, I let myself get too close, and before I knew it I'd crossed the ultimate boundary. And for me, it didn't even take any alcohol. Just stupidity!

I wish like everything I could change my past. I regret it terribly. I can't. But I am VERY glad that I am no longer in that situation and have put up many precautions so that I never end up there again.

The feelings for the OM will go away if you give him up! And you'll find yourself years later saying "What in the world was I thinking!?!".

If you don't give him up, and try to live as you are living, you will be eaten alive with guilt and stress and there will be no happiness to be found.

I will also tell you that there was a time during our marriage after both of us had been unfaithful and I'd filed for DV the first time (13 years ago) because XH wouldn't end his affair that I thought I hated him. I felt nothing. He begged me to come back. We worked things out. And over the years my commitment and love continued to grow for him to the point that I loved him so much when he had the second affair that I thought I was going to die if he was gone. Love can come back!! You just have to get the OM out of your life and focus on your husband. (My problem was that I loved an alcoholic/drug user who left me in the end for someone else. This does NOT sound like your problem with your husband.)

If you are reading this, PLEASE think long and hard about what you stand to lose if you continue in this thing that makes you "feel good"! (Your husband...who I do believe you still love but just don't realize it, your integrity, your pride, your reputation, and on and on...)

Ok Errn, while I don't recall your poster name, let's give you the benefit of the doubt that you are sincere in your questions. I can see that your hindsight and foresight have twisted a bit and you seem to recall mostly the bad points of your life. Ok, very typical WS style. Kinda scary that one so familar with MB and been through the BS trials can lose their focus so quickly, eh? Well that's what an A can do even to the best of people. All the more reason to work hard to see clearly.

From your post, it appears you realize you are euphoric instead of being reasonable. Think if your current state of mind is a healthy place t/b in 1 - 6 months or years. Then think if you would be willing to place your life and that of your family in the hands of someone whose mental outlook is highly influenced by euphoric thoughts and emotions instead of reasonableness, care, loyalty, faithfulness, self-control, long suffering, trust and love. Oh yea, there are a few more qualities I could throw in but I am sure you get the picture.

The feelings you describe are quite real. That is why even the best of spouses and parents can fall so quickly and hard to the point where it is difficult to recognize them. Remember how WAT likes to compare the WS to aliens? Well you now know 1st hand why that is so. The feelings you have are more drug like than real.

The sad part is when reality does hit, you may not be able to recover what you will eventually realize is where your true love resides. You could be without family, friends and God. In time of need, the OM may not be that KISA you once 'felt' he w/b. He maybe a KISA more to strangers than family and once you have stepped into the 'family realm' you will have lost his interest in you. Then what?!?!?!? Very typical of KISA's types to be nice to the world and neglectful of his family. Of course you would not be able to see that now but he is already being neglectful to his family as you are being to yours.

Ok, what t/d? Hm.... now that is up to you. You can keep giving into your euphoric emotions and run amuck. Then you have those consquences you can never escape from. Or you can wake up, work on building or rebuilding a real life and then live it to the best of your ability.

The choice is yours. The consquences can make or break yourself and your family and NOT OP is worth that expense.

Not sure if you can even read through this post or even want to. Just had to spit it out.

take care,
L.

What happened with the break-up on 5/24/05?



Let me guess --- he was not ready to give that great sex up.

In your trying to convince us how good he is, I believe the one about him saying grace even when eating out is the most sickening. Does he say grace before the fabulous sex he has with you. I know that is harsh, but don't throw that in there when he is being about as immoral as one can get (screwing a married woman WHILE friends with the husband and even dated the daughter at one point).

Sickening!

Orchid, I think eern has the same ID as always.
Here is a post of hers from 2003 (she registerd in Dec of 2002)
about how she felt 3 months after D Day with her husband.


errn
Member


Reged: 12/26/02
Posts: 68
Re: 3 MONTHS AFTER D?DAY
#563834 - 03/14/03 02:27 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Kat,

I too am approaching the 3 month anniversary of D-Day. I never would have believed I am where I am 3 mos. ago.

You are right, it hasn't been easy, and I am still in a fragile state. I believe we are at the beginning of recovery.

H has been home 1 week. I found out about A, confronted him, and he moved out all on the same day - Dec. 16. Within days, he was living with OW.

Everyone on this board knows the devistation and betrayal we all felt. I was no exception. It was the worst time of my life. Thankfully I found MB and it has given me much needed support.

I won't go into all of my story, but let me say I have never given up, although at times I felt ready to. I knew though that I loved H and was willing to do just about anything to save our M, even though he kept telling me he didn't think it would work.

I was persistent with trying to deposit into his Love Bank, even though it was so difficult with him living with her. Everyone recommended Plan B, but I just couldn't do it. I probably was the "doormat", allowing him to have a relationship with me while living with her.

It paid off though when she started to LB and he moved out - Feb. 16, exactly 2 mos. after D-day.

I was hurt when H would not move back in with me, saying he needed time and to work things out in his own head. I felt pretty sure he needed some kind of a "push" to get him back in here. I just continued to be as loving as I could, meeting his needs, and offering forgiveness without using that word, just by my actions.

We would have lunch together whenever I was off work, and Yes, it was me who initiated all the contacts, but knowing H as I did, I knew I had to do it. We were already in a renewed physical relationship, and I continued to initiate those contacts too.

It has now been 1 week H has been home. His things are still at his son's, and I don't press him to bring them home. Little by little, more things arrive here. He talks like he is here to stay, but I still don't press the issue.

I try to be as loving as I can, no pressure, even when it kills me inside (like when he leaves to go somewhere and I know OW will be there - he has not given up the club where he met her yet). But he is home on time, even early, and I feel I have to make this concession to him as part of recovery, at least for now.

I am happy, yet still anxious. I know we may have setbacks, but I don't want to think about them yet.

It saddens me when I see the new posts of revealed A. That pain is still so fresh, and I hate thinking of others going through it.

I started on the boards under "just found out" and then progressed to "general questions". I hope now I will remain "in recovery" and hope to be a support to others out there going through this.

If things falter, I will be back posting for support and insite myself, but for now, I will take one day at a time!

Post Extras:

How exactly does that go?

"God...please bless this food that I am about to eat...and please forgive me for boinking another man's wife yesterday...hmmm...today...and hmmmm...tomorrow."

Saying grace before a meal while doing another man's wife isn't something that I would laud him for. If nothing else, it is hypocritical.

JMHO
committed

I wasn't going to post to this thread, being a recently betrayed wife, but I couldn't resist this:

Or, for variation, "God, please bless this food to our bodies, so we may have the strength to lie and deceive - and boink other people's spouses and ruin their children's lives."

'Hypocritical' is putting it kindly, I'd say.

lordslady & orchid:

Thank you for your honest responses. LL, since you admit to being both a BS and WS, I appreciate your insight. That is what I wanted to know. Once you have the feelings you get from the A, can you ever go back to the marriage and have feelings again for your spouse.

At this point, I can't see that. I don't have any feelings toward H. I guess I love him in a way, but not the way I probably should. There is too much past history of hurt, and I'm not only talking his A.

He too is an alcoholic. So, you know the neglect that comes from an alcoholic spouse. He admits, now, that he always thought of himself first, he never looked at MY needs. He admits now, that he was neglectful, thought he was always right, doesn't communicate, thinks only of himself, was never there for me or my children, and never really cared much about me or our marriage. These are his word, now, not mine. Now, he says all these things because he knows he may loose me.

He says he always has loved me, but never as much. He says it's like he knew I would always be there, so he could do whatever he wanted. Again, these are things he is admitting to me, now that he is trying to save our marriage. He admits he never showed me attention, love, caring because he doesn't know how. I believe he doesn't. He is not close to his own children, parents or siblings. He can't talk to his own adult kids, so how can he talk to me? He is very distant, doesn't share thoughts or feelings.

We once drove 1200 miles and hardly spoke to each other, not because we were mad or anything, just didn't have anything to say to each other. We go a lot of days hardly talking, even in the best of times, cause we had nothing to say to each other. We talk about what happened at work, about how the lawnmower needs repaired, and thats about it.

He watches the weather channel and sports, and thats it. Won't go to or watch a movie, won't go on a picnic or to the beach. Plays golf with his son, drinks and shoots pool. I even started going to the bar with him in an attempt to be together, and look where that led. (where A started). He was off playing pool and talking to everyone else, and I was talking to OM.

I know this A is wrong. It IS ending, I see it. I am very depressed, don't know what I want, can't see clearly into the future about H and Marriage. I think even if the A ends, I still want to leave the marriage, but yet I don't for security reasons. I LIKE being married and with one person, just don't know if it's H. May not be with OM either, just think there is SOMEONE I may be more compatible and happy with.

I will never ever tell H about A either, even if he deserve to know. Partly to protect OM and partly not to hurt H. I really don't care about to consequenses to myself. I'd tell him about it just to let him know there was someone out there who WANTED me, even if it was for the wrong reasons. It was nice for a while to be told I was beautiful, sexy, special and to be treated that way, instead of just being taken for granted. H never, even in our early marriage told me any of these things, and that is not the fog, it is true. He can't compliment ro say nice things. He never said "I'm sorry" in 15 years. The first time he said he was sorry about anything was just recently while we have bee talking honestly for the first time. He said he was sorry he hurt me so bad with his A and sorry he has not been the kind of H I deserve. First time in 15 years, but is it too late? I don't know. H is 9 yrs older than me and he even said I should be with womeone my own age.

I will keep reading the posts, thanks again!

errn,

Now away from sarcasm etc, you have to get your head straight and do the right thing.
What is the right thing? you may ask. You have to be fair, fair to others and yourself.

You say your husband says he never loved you "that much", and you don't love him "that much" either. He never has paid you any compliment, and saying sorry for him is so difficult it's only happened once since you've been married.

You are neglected, lonely, and so starved of some love and attention you'd go looking for it elsewhere, yet, you conciously are choosing to stay in a situation like this because you are scared of being alone, and because you just like the feeling of being married... errn... take a hard look at it, you won't tell your H partly because you claim you don't want to hurt him, but mostly because you refuse to let go of the security blanket that your H is, because you have already told us that the moment he finds out, its over.

Pretty much it sounds as if you'll endure this kind of life at least untill you can find someone else that can guarantee he'll stick with you while you divorce your H so you don't have to spend one single day alone.
You now want to stop your affair, but what will stop you from re-starting it again, or even starting off a new one?

You are setting your M for an awful fall, you are setting yourself for a horrible failure, but you are so scared of having to move in any direction you'll just wait untill somebody makes a decision for you. In the end errn, you'll end up alone wether you like it or not, if you keep this up.

You have to be honest and stop cowering in fear. You need to tell your H, and let him decide if he wants to stay or not. He isn't a robot, he isn't a toy, he isn't made out of stone. You need to figure yourself out, you need to be able to be alone before you can be with anybody else!

Is your marriage worth the fight for you? Are you better off divorced? You have to get your mind clear and out of this whole OM nonsense. Can't you see he is just a distraction for a problem? Can't you see you have bigger things you need to figure out?

You married out of fear of being alone, you won't divorce out of fear of being alone, and you had an A out of the same exact fear.

Will you let this command your life forever? Will you get a hold of it? It is all up to you errn.

This is a lie. You care nothing about "hurting" your H; you already did that with your sleazy affair. You have proven you don't care about "hurting" him with your cruel behavior.

You are the last person in the world who is qualified to decide what is best for him, since you are the one who is victimizing him. Does the rapist get to decide what is best for the rape victim? Of course not.

So, don't try and tell us you are doing this to protect your H from "hurt." Truth is the solution to adultery, not more lies. And your husband needs to know the truth so he can protect himself from you.

This is a big lie and YOU know it, otherwise you would have not said the following:



You know what is really sad? the following comment you made to an OW just a little over 2 years ago:


Indeed.

Everyone seems to forget that I was once the BS. His A hurt me more than anything I had ever endured. It hurt my children, it hurt my family. I didn't speak to my parents for over 3 mos. after I took him back because they were so upset with me for it. Our relationship (between my parents and myself) is at best strained. We no longer celebrate the holidays together or have picnics, birthdays etc.

Why, because H is not welcome in their home. I had to make a choice between H and them. I chose H. My father has cancer and I don't know how long he has, and yet, I can't even go to see him because of all the pain of the past. I go for 10 minutes every couple of months, but it's not the same.

I took him back and lost everything else I had. I tried, really tried to make things work. His family is the only family I see.

I started this post, not him, because I do feel I am wrong in this A, but I wanted to have others help me deal with all the feelings and emotions I have. For the past 15 years I would never have dreampt I would end up in an A. It goes against everthing I was taught, everything I believed in, but it made me feel so damn good. That is the irony of it.

I don't believe in fairy tales and I don't believe in "happily ever after" either. I don't think there even are any GOOD marriages left out there. I don't even know of any marriages where there hasn't been an A at some time, not necessarily in current relationships but in past ones. I believed everything I said 2 years ago. I was the one betrayed. So how can I be doing the same thing now? I don't know. I think I was so hurt it destroyed something in me. Something that made me not care anymore.

I was single for 6 yrs between marriages. I CAN be single again. I raised 3 kids on my own in that time (first H has not been seen or heard from in years). Sent all 3 kids to college on my own - no grants, loans etc. I worked, worked overtime, worked extra, and got them all educated. It's not that I can't do it, I just don't want to. I am not saying OM is my answer, I don't think we have any kind of future, I really don't. He is also a lot younger than me. I just don't know if "this is as good as it gets" so I should just live with it, or if this is a wakeup call and I need to find what it is I am looking for, and if that even exists.

I even told H "if you would just let me date for a year". I said it as a joke, but that is almost what I feel I need. To experience what I THINK I am missing, and find out if it is out there or just a pipedream. (I am not really serious is meaninng he should let me date). But I do feel like if I left and it didn't work out, and I knew I could come back home again, I would leave. I know, selfish of me. I even told H that HE had his play time when he left me during his A. I never had that because I promised myself I would not even date for a year. He lived with OW and played house for 3 mos before he decided to leave her when SHE pissed him off.

I remained faithful all of my marriage and throughout his A. I know that doesn't qualify me for sainthood, but I did remain faithful. Now, I know what everyone thinks of me, but I am not a bad person. I know what I am doing is wrong. The A is ending, even though I can't honestly say I want it to. But I am still hurting, I am still confused, and I still feel lost. If all of you can forgive your own WS, why is it that I can't be forgiven?

Forgiven for what? How can your victim forgive you for anything as long as you continue to lie to and deceive him? And what is a bad person if not a person who does bad things? But let's be honest here, dear, it's a little more than "bad." It's much more. It involves cruelty, manipulation, lying and deceiving someone in order to trick them into staying married to you. Your marriage is a lie by your own admission. That is more than "bad," that is dangerous, my friend.

TO the contrary, we all KNOW ....Hence our reaction to said Knowledge.

Truly, this board and forum were Once a "haven" for you years ago as a BS.

Sadly, it cannot be for a Current / continuing WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It simply CANNOT give you What you seek , which is Permission / acceptance to continue in your A.

Indeed, There is NO Board (cheering section) for that Here.

In addition, you seem to have a need to be "understood".
Well, at least that Much you have accomplished ..... so "goal Met"!

We understand your thinking, your reasons and your excuses .......and Reject them all.

With that said:
I wish you success in getting your life turned around (for all parties involved). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Should that time come around .... Yes, of course you CAN be Forgiven! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
No doubt about it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am not trying to manipulate or trick H into staying with me. I told him I wasn't happy and wanted to leave. He does not want me to. He want to "save" our marriage. I told him pretty much everthing I was feeling, I just never told him I was actually having an A, but I know he suspects I did. He was a master at it and he knows how to play the game. he knows the signs and the rules far better than me!

He is being held in your marriage by a lie; he is being manipulated into staying. As you told us, he would choose to leave if he knew of your infidelity. So you lie to him. You trick him into staying. That is because you KNOW he wouldn't stay if he knew who you really are.

That is the cruelest form of manipulation, my friend. You are a fraud who is fraudulently keeping him in a marriage with your lies.

tell you what. I won't judge you... because who the hell am I anyway. Based on your last post only, the things I get out of it are you lost your relationship with you family(or the fullness it once was) and you are hurting, looking for acceptance and love anywhere.

I would say that possibly this could be recovered, but it sounds like there is tons of pain and issues. Some known and some not.

I just wanted to say I am sorry that things have gone this way and I hope that you find the clarity in the future to do what is best for you.

MB or not, you have to be what you want to be. Take the time and figure out what you want. And then go get it. At some point the right thing to do is to tell your H of your affair. When? I don't know. Many will tell you right now. Then again... who here is the expert on your life.

You have endured a ton of pain, and for that I am sad... because people shouldn't have to go through pain.

but they do.



I think THIS is the most immediate issue to deal with. Take the time to figure out what you want and the parameters and boundaries for it. Then develop a goal.

Then go get it.

I wish you the very best and I certainly hope you find happiness, because it is out there. It truly is.

Please take care of yourself. Life is a crazy ride sometimes.

Marriage Building Errn

MARRIAGE BUILDING

Are you here to Marriage Build or not?

Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I am not asking for acceptance or approval. I am not asking to be understood. What I was asking for is help to overcome the addiction, the FOG, to understand what I am feeling and can I get back to NORMAL.

I want to jump in here too. To be forgiven, you have to be sorry for your actions. I hear you justify your actions but I don't here the remorse.

I suspect you enjoyed the younger man because it filled your ego to the brim. A thrill that a younger man would be attracted to you was quite a turn-on I am sure. My FWW felt the same way with her boy-toy. I think you need to lay the cards on the table and tell your husband everything. Give him the choice to stay with you or leave you. Be honest with him so he can make an informed decision.

My wife tried to negotiate with me to allow her to keep her best friend at work. Love and Fog are so thick you can cut it with a knife. Maybe your marriage should end but maybe you and your spouse can live with each other's actions and agree to go forward and stay married.

Everything boils down to choices, your husbands, yours, and both of your lovers now and in the past. People seem to self destruct and then they wonder why their life is nothing but crap.

I think it is time for you to make some hard choices, you came to the y in the road long ago and you took the wrong road. The road you are on is the road of pain, suffering, and ongoing doom. It may be too late for you to turn back but time will tell. Unfortunately, we become what we practice to be.

TooSoon

The only thing I see you wanting "help" in is justifying the unjustifiable. I don't see any hint that you have a lick of remorse or any intention whatsoever of making amends to your victim. So please excuse me if I don't take your request for "help" too seriously. You are like a drunk who wants "help" with his drinking on his way into the bar.

You will get "help" on this forum if you express some sincere intention to stop the affair and stop the lying. You have said you have no intention of doing that, though. Folks here aren't obliged to waste their time with someone who is so obviously insincere and unapologetic for cruel behavior.