Caren, I have followed your story from the start but never posted to you. Just so that you know, I am a passionate, passionate advocate for battered women and am sorry that actual violence is part of your sitch. Unfortunately, the “higher standard” that men are held to by so many of us, (myself included) can be open to abuse. It is my hope that you do not take the “he hit me” card and run with it.

You by your own admission left your H four times (? I am relying on memory here) during the marriage, attempted suicide several times prior to his A and attempted once again because of it. You have lost your job due to this last attempt, regained it and promptly lost it again based on a “technicality”. Employers do not keep employees with self management problems, they were probably waiting for you to misstep, matter how slight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Similarly, it is difficult to be married to someone with self management issues. Your H had an affair, it was a WRONG, WRONG, WRONG way to deal with the problems but it is not the primary cause of your current situation. Caren, until you are able to get to your own RECOVERY, there will be no marital recovery. Your H took you in when you were jobless and about to be evicted despite his concerns about the housekeeping, financial issues, anger issues and who knows what else. The two of you do not appear to ever have had an easy time of it! {{{Caren}}}

So, my advice to you is this,(forgive me if you have already decided what course of action to take)...do not compound your problems by involving the police. You risk being held on battery charges because you slapped first and multiple times, and threw dirt on him. (!) Because he then hit back , BOTH of you risk being arrested. Do you have someone who can bail both of you out? Do you have money to pay the bail...minimum $500 apiece to your local friendly bailbondsman is my guess. Not only that but your mental health history and mandated anger management therapy might be brought up in court and do you really want to go through that? Can you pay for MORE mandated therapy? How about the possibility that he could also be ordered to complete a batterer’s program? These things all cost money and you HAVE to follow through once it’s ordered. Not a pretty picture….think it over.

This situation is toxic and dangerous to you both at this point. It is waaaay beyond MB! I think it’s ironic that he did try to do right by you by giving you a place to live in spite of his misgivings, only to have it come to this. I just hope you don’t compound the problems you already have by filing charges. You need to move OUT, the situation is only going to escalate if you stay.

On a note of encouragement (I hope) life is messy sometimes…sort of like the way your house was but if you managed to get your house in order, you can get your life in order the same way. One area at a time, one task at a time...take CHARGE of your life Caren, apply what you learned in therapy. I wish you the best, KB

If you were more an advocate of non violence as opposed to "battered women" you wouldn't give such irresponsible advice!!!!!

Why call an independent 3rd party that can speak to everyone involved as well as assess the environment the children are in and possibly access crisis workers to intervene if necessary? If you would understand the dynamics of abuse you would also understand the CHARGING SOMEONE IS USUALLY THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO STOP THE ABUSE. We can't asses a situation from cyber world and must take everything at face value that Caren tells us. This is the very reason that this is not an MB issue.

I don't think I've ever been more upset at a posting.

Do you know anything about Canadian law…..Caren, if memory serves is a Canadian.

tqt,

Just because some of the comments have been blunt...doesn't mean that the poster lacks empathy or compassion for caren.

It's time for caren to get real. This has been going on for months...caren has been violent in the past. She has been ordered into treatment for her behavior.

Since caren is the one that posts here for imput, she has to be prepared to hear what others have to say about HER behavior. That is where change starts...with caren, NOT with her H.

I have been reading her posts from the start, so I'm not acting as a fly-by when I post to her.

caren needs to get real with caren.

committed

Sorry Binder, perhaps I didn't make myself clear....of course 3rd party intervention IS necesary to stop abuse (especially if they plan to stay together) but in this particular instance of abuse as presented by Caren, it was instigated by her and became MUTUAL. Caren is in the home apparently due to lack of options rather than any recovery intent on her H's part (separate issue) but in the light of these developments, she must make plans to find alternatives. My advice not to involve the police FOR THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE ABSOLUTELY hinges on her finding other options for housing. I wish finances were not such an issue for them but unfortunately it does have to be factored in.

Caren needs to find other living arrangements, if she does not, 3rd party intervention will most assuredly become necessary. I think a women's shelter is an excellent idea if she has no other options but my concern was that she not "capitalize" on the husband's portion of this mess to get into one. I don't think that this is where she is at. (Caren??) I am NOT advocating her to stay and be silent...I am saying consider the entire picture in terms of the physical, emotional and financial cost and make necessary moves to leave the situation.Hope that clears it up. KB

Warning: Temporary T/J

YOu know TQT, I KNOW this is directed at me, so why don't you have the guts to address ME and not use the "some" people comment. Have the ball$ to call me out here. Yes this is Caren's thread and we want to help her, but please do NOT mistake the "tone" and "delivery" of a very important message that she needs to hear. She obviously has not heard it yet. Noone is calling anyone stupid. I will NOT apologize for my tone. I care, if I didn't I would not bother posting. It is posts like yours that sometimes blow my mind. You get lost in the "tone" of something and not the message. Do you think, a big old, "Aww Caren it is okay, everything is gonna be alright honey don't worry" is all she needs today? She got that and then some. I think "SOME PEOPLE" can do more harm trying to be "compassionate" and "empathatic" in unknowingly encouraging continued dysfunctional behavior all in the throes of "supporting".....please read and then re-read the utterly tragic evidence of this in Danigirls thread.

There were plenty of (((((( ))))))) for Caren. It is my opinion, that compassion is all Caren got here today. If people didn't give a rats A$$, THEY WOULDN'T bother posting. In the future, if you have a problem with my posts, please address me PERSONALLY and stop hiding behind a veiled jab at me.

T/J over....

Caren, once again, what have you DONE today to change your situation?

LM

Edited to add: I think I should bow out of this thread, because honestly I think I don't have the objectivity here to help Caren. I am letting this "get to me" to much, and in that mode, I cannot be helpful. I am gracefully bowing out of this particular discussion.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Here I sit...convinced that it is ME that the comments were directed at.

AND...here you sit thinking that they are directed at you!


Could it be that I am just paranoid...or both of us?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I KNOW that my comments come off very stoic at times. I'm not into the ((((( hug)))))) thing in cyberland. It doesn't mean that I don't care, ya know?

committed

Geez... and I hesitated to say what I said, because I sort of expected the above.

C'mon guys... I respect EVERYONE'S opinion here... immensely.

My post wasn't about "calling someone out"... and LM, I have the balls... but by your comments you obviously missed the whole point, and chose to take it personally.
Since this is supposed to be about Caren... let's rise above all that, ok?

LM, when someone shows up in the ER in a panic... what do you do? Feed the panic? Doubt it.

That's essentially what my post was about. Maybe I said it wrong. If I was not tactful, I apologize.

sigh.........shouldn't we be concerned about giving sound advice instead of getting our "tone" right? We all have different delivery styles, they are simply expressions of our personalities. A little tolerance would be appropos, especially on a thread like this.

Just some thoughts:

"Anger is also a signal. Like fear, anger signals danger. However, rather than urging us to withdraw, anger is a sign that we need to move forward to confront the threat. Jesus' rage at the defilement of the temple is an example of how this feeling fuctions (John 2:13-17).

Anger tells us that our boundaries have been violated. Much like a nation's radar defense system, angry feelings serve as an "early warning system," telling us we're in danger of being injured or controlled.

Anger also provides us with a sense of power to solve a problem. It energizes us to protect ourselves, those we love, and our principles. In fact, a common Old Testament illustration of an angry person is someone with a "hard-breathing nose."

However, as with all emotions, anger doesn't understand time. Anger doesn't dissipate automatically if the danger occurred two minutes ago - or twenty years ago! It has to be worked through APPROPRIATELY. Otherwise, anger simply lives inside the heart. This is why individuals with injured boundaries often are shocked by the rage they feel inside when they begin setting limits. This is generally not "new anger" - it's "old anger." It's often years of nos that were never voiced, never respected, and never listened to. The protests against all the evil and violation of our soul sit inside us, waiting to tell their truths. When you suddenly give those who have been imprisoned all their lives a great deal of power, the result is often an angry tyrant. Years of constant boundary violations generate great anger. It's very common for boundary-injured people to do some "catching up" with anger. They may have a season of looking at boundary violations of the past that they never realized existed.

As hostile feelings surface, bring them to relationship. Confess them. The Bible tells us to tell the truth to each other about our lacks, so that we may be healed (James 5:16) Experience the grace of God through others who love you in your anger. This is a first step toward resolving past anger.

A second step is to rebuild the injured parts of your soul. Take responsibility for healing the "treasures" that may have been violated.

Finally, as you develop a sense of biblical boundaries, you develop more safety in the present. You develop more confidence. You are less enslaved to the fear of other people.

Once you have your no intact, you no longer need the "rage signal." You can see evil coming your way and prevent it from harming you by your boundaries.

Don't fear the rage you discover when you first begin your boundary development. It is the protest of earlier parts of your soul. Those parts need to be unveiled, understood, and loved by God and people. And then you need to take responsibility for healing them and developing better boundaries.

The more biblical our boundaries are, the less anger we experience."



None of these are my words. This is a quote out of "Boundaries" by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend.

HTH

May God bless you and keep you and your children.

Tama

I apologize for my rant earlier, perhaps it was not entirely fair to Tqt. The bottom line is that the original poster has been given some sound advice and "support" to do what she needs to do to begin to "recover" herself. No one can do this for her.

As I said before, this is a subject that I have great difficulty with. There is no area in my professional life that I feel more sadness in than dealing with domestic abuse. I don't know why this is so "triggerish" for me. I think that I may be guilty of displacing my "issues" on this thread.

I hope for Caren's sake she does what she needs to do to remove herself from a situation that she also played a big part in letting get out of hand.

No more needs to be said from me on this subject. It is out there, now she needs to make the next step. I hope and pray that this doesn't turn into a daninggirl situation.

I'm out.

LM

LM

Oh, I agree somewhat here LM. But I have been with Caren here from the beginning. As Caren has stated in several posts today, if anyone in that relationship has an anger porblem, she does. She readily admits it. If there is further violence, odds are that it will be her doing it. The question is, will Caren learn to control her temper? Of course her husband was wrong...very wrong...and if he were here I would be all over him. But he isnt. Caren was wrong. She took the argument to violence, not her husband. That does not excuse what he did. But the violence issue centers mostly on her.

They had better learn. Or she will continue to abuse him, and he will her. Or they will both divorce and marry someone else to abuse them. time for Caren and her husband to grow up a little here. As I said above, if I could talk to her hubby, I would. But as it is only her here right now, the butt kicking goes her way.

You ever read my threads during my ordeal? Have you? There is no abuse in my family history. My wife and I have NEVER laid a hand on each other before the affair. I always said I would pound into the ground any man that laid a hand on a woman. Then one day in the middle of the affair, things got out of hand. My wife was in my face, yelling, threatening. My kids had seen a lot and were practically a mess. She was in our house raising cain, and had already physically hit me twice two months earlier. So, I did the wrong thing. I physically grabbed her and tried to escort her out the door. In that confrontation, I ended up pushing her, she fell and skinned up her knees. Result? I was arrested. Charges were later dropped after I attended an anger management class.

Now, that incident was a wake up call for the two of us. we were both looking ourselves and each other and not knowing what had really happened. This was not in either of our nature.

My point is this. Was it wrong for us to stay together in the same house after that? Should she have run to a woman's shelter, even though she had hit me twice and was threatening a third time when I grabbed her? Was there a danger of future violence. In our case, no there wasnt. I knew so, and so did she. No excuses. We both knew.

I told her this stuff because number one, she has instigated the violence...and two, she knows her situation better than us. If she can honestly decide that this was a blow-up, like mine, that will nto happen again, then it is better if she stays. Better for the marriage. but also better for her legally.

You see, if she leaves, in order to have to protect herself, she is going to have to report this and have him charged. Well, guess what? Once he is charged, so she will be. Then they will go to court, and she will admit that she struck him several times before he hit her. And that judge will sentence her (maybe him too). Now, who is this helping?

Like I said, if it is an unsafe environment, then she must get out. But so far, it has been Caren making it an unsafe environment.

My reference to letting God handle this wasnt the violence...it was his continued contact with the OW. I was prety clear about that.

Maybe I have forgotten this but isnt Plan A used to separate the WS from the OP?

LM, you did misinterpret my post. Not every situation is cut and dry. I also believe as you that no man should ever touch a woman in a violent way. NEVER. But I also know that stuff happens, as the inconceivable has happened in my life. I also kno Caren's situation. Caren is not a child. If she wants to batter her husband, at best she will be arrested, and at worst, she may find him get angry enough to swing back. Either way, she loses. She has got to get a control on that temper.

Again, I am not excusing her husband. He needs someone to put him up against a wall and made to understand that that will never happen again.

I also am not saying that she should stay in an abusive relationship. I would say the same thing to him. Because she has been equally, or more so, abusive.

LM, I do respect you. And I understand where you are coming from. And if I didnt know Caren, I might agree. But not everything is as it seems.

I hope that helped clear things up.

Caren, update us on things.

In His arms.

LM, no need to apologize to me! And please don't go anywhere... Caren needs your help (more than mine, that's for sure!)

Tough subject matter, tough medium... and when emotions run high (and off the charts in this case, understandably so) things can get weird real fast.

But I do apologize if I've offended anyone.

Back to Caren's thread............

Sheesh, I checked in today and I see Caren is back. And I notice she has this long thread.I love Caren, so i read it (sidenote, slightly jealous cause she has so many pages already) and think "Whoooey, the Sh#t hit the fan this time", as I go thru it all quickly.

FIRST, I love you LM, I really do. You don't sugarcoat it and that is a good thing. OF COURSE it is different for a man to hit a woman, rather than vice-versa. Men ARE almost always bigger and even more frequently STRONGER. Caren probably couldn't have made a dent in this guy's mole. HE obviously hit her with a lot of force.

Ashamedly (somewhat), I have slapped men, including my H. Wrong, Hell yeah. Did I really hurt him? doubtful. Can a man stop me from hitting me? Sure, I am little (strong for my size, but still little and a WOMAN, with not as much muscle- that is fact). The more power a person has, the more responsible one needs to act with this power!

Is Caren's H a womanbeater? Who knows, could go that way, but probably not yet. He reacted, albeit wrongly, as she did. She should hold him responsible though. He could have done a lot of other things,or "checked" his strength.

Is Caren an H-beater? I really don't think so. Anger issues, maybe. Past Aside - Honestly tho, I cannot get over the advice here to never LB: get angry but only talk about it in a nice way. Am I that far off of reality here? Am I the only one (and most that I know IRL) here in MB who just yells and gets mad sometimes. I am human. I know that I should try and remain calm, I know that there are "good" ways and "bad" ways to handle things, but for poopsakes people, this is life and we are talking about infidelity here.

--back to Caren's issues. Caren, by your own admission, you did a really sh*tty Plan B. Get your cr*p together girly. Why doesn't H move out and pay some of the bills for awhile? Or dammit Care, FIND SOMETHING to do, SOMEWHERE to go.

I really feel for you Caren. But it IS time. Get out of this for awhile. Don't look back. Take care of you and those kids, cause dammit nobody else is gonna'. And THAT may be the only way to get H back, if you even decide you want him.

Caren, you've been fooling yourself and now you know it. Your H was never into this recovery thing that great. You cannot do it FOR him. But you can do it for you! The faster you do, the sooner he will know you mean business and get some respect back for you. He should be BEGGING you for another chance. Fix yourself and find yourself. Don't lose yourself in him. DETACH from him and do it FAST, like YESTERDAY.

Good Luck Caren, but it's gonna take alot more than that.

jls

BTW, I believe that Care is in the midwest, here in the good ol' USA.

OK, kids are in bed, I have a cup of warm tea and the sun is starting to set. This time of year, up here we still have about another hour of pretty good light though.

I still think to throw out a "do not involve the police comment" is inappropriate. We do not know what "this instance" involves. The police, at least, can see the whole picture regarding this particular instance and gauge the level of violence and any mitigating factors i.e. drug/alcohol use, effect on children and their exposure to it. They also can determine if firearms are in the residence and can seize them for the time being. Though they cannot force someone out of their house, unless arrested or subject to an emergency protection order, they can strongly persuade on party to leave the residence for the time being. It's possible that some thing is available, but just inconvenient at the moment. They may convince one of them to "see the big picture" and leave anyway.

As domestic violence is a sensitive issue up here they may initiate a lot more scrutiny. In the city I live in we have family violence teams with the local constabulary that consist of a detective/social worker combination. They receive a copy of all the domestic violence files and can direct the action and resources required to a situation. They may involve the Child and Family Services to see what type of environment the children are exposed to.

Might Caren get charged? Maybe. If so, and if laws and the corresponding subsequent consequences are enacted to protect people and society, let them. I'm all about accountability and a third party professional trained to evaluate the situation makes perfect sense to me. Mortarman states in his last thread:


Then he says:


Apparently it helped him and his wife.

If the police do charge, they would likely be released or possibly have to appear in front of a Justice of the Peace to speak to release. Release may include a recognizance which is essentially a restraining order to keep them away from each other if that is deemed necessary or desired. Of course that is assuming they/she doesn't have a prior criminal history for this sort of thing and/or a mess of "failing to appears" on their records.

This crisis may need that sort of intervention; impossible for us to tell simply seeing one side on a computer screen. A live cop, IMHO, is what is needed to figure out what is really going on. We are all guessing at best. I like to err on the side of caution, and the side of the children.

Mortarman - I'm sorry, I missed something. I didn't realize that you've been working with Caren "since the beginning." I am reacting to her self-induced crisis that prompted the first post of this thread.

However, she has been posting since last September, and it doesn't seem to have done a lot of good with the way that this latest scenario played out.

I do NOT see any Christian response here. I see manipulation and a refusal to actually DO the hard things necessary. NOW it has escalated to where she feels justified in hitting (despite her hand wringing that she knows she shouldn't have hit him) him BECAUSE she feels angry and the anger gives her the right to strike out verbally and physically.

I am NOT implying that her husband is "guilt free" in all of this. On the contrary, I see what appears to be "two peas in a pod." They both react AND act as if Christ has no place in their lives. They react with feelings, emotions, justifications, anger, lack of control, lack of discipline to actually DO a "Plan A" or a "Plan B."

From just this little interaction, they would seem to need a separation, a "cooling down period," some time to see just what being without each other IS going to be like.

Unless there are major changes on both their parts, I am not very optimistic about their chances at reconciliation.

He is NOT into "forsaking all others" and performing his role as "head of the household." I do NOT know if he is even a Christian, though his actions lead me to believe he is not. Therefore, the "best" situation would seem to be an "unevenly yoked" marriage. Regardless, neither one of them seems the least bit interested in putting obedience to God as their first priority.

There IS such a thing as "Tough Love," and it really seems that this situation is in need of it. If there is going to be a "saved marriage," it cannot be the "marriage" that exists right now for Caren and her husband.

I understand the "butt kicking" you are referring to, but I'm sure you have done similar things when you talked to her previously. The old saying is; "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

They NEED strong personal, professional, counseling, not the drive-by shots from MB posting. Way too easy to find folks who will wind up telling someone what they want to hear, but not really saying something to the effect of; "poop or get off the pot."

I know, very strong language, and perhaps unfeeling and not sensitive enough. But there is a time...and in Caren's case the time is when she claims to be a Christian. IF that is true, then the response is simple and direct, as given by Christ...."Go, and LEAVE your life of sin." Immediately. No equivocating. NOW. Change and follow Christ, no matter how hard it may seem. Security in Christ is no license to continue sinning, and that is what she is doing. So is her husband, but then I've read nothing that indicates he thinks of himself as a Christian.

It is my hope that this crisis will finally penetrate and she will surrender to God, but I'm not holding out hope until there is observable changes that indicate a surrendered life.

Trusting in God's ability to use even this situation to work for good in her life, and perhaps even in the life of her husband. Sometimes we learn quickly and sometimes we take the long road, often it's up to the individuals involved.

God bless.

ForeverHers,

As almost always, I completely agree with you. This was sort of what I was trying to say, but did a poor job doing so. I told her when she abandoned Plan B that she had done a poor job. I have told her she had better get a handle on the anger. I have told her that following Christ isnt a sometime thing. All of these things.

On the issue of whether it is different if a man hits a woman or a woman hits a man, let me express this. First off, I am an infantry soldier (retired last year). My wife has zero chance of hurting me in any real way, unless she surprises me. On the otherhand, as mentioned above, I obviously can make a lot more damage.

That being said, I also wanted to mention a few things here. First off, let me use an analogy. If a woman, dressed provocatively, was to walk in southeast Washington, D.C. at 3am alone, and then be raped...I would not say that it isnt the rapist's fault and that he shouldnt be punished. Of course. No woman asks to be raped.

But how intelligent is that woman to do such a thing? Come on. There are some things I just dont understand. It's like the Troll (my wife's OM). Here is a soldier off at war, and you are going to sleep with his wife? The guy is been overseas, and doing all of the things you associate with war, and you want to trust that guy that he will have restraint when he gets back and doesnt do to you the same things he did to the Taliban? Okay, if I had of done something, I would have been punished. But please...what an idiot the Troll was for trusting me not to go off the handle.

Same goes for a woman hitting a man. Too many women use that excuse "Well, you're a man. You cant hit me. Besides, I cant really hurt you anyway. So, its okay if I hit you. Or at least, if not okay, it is sort of condoned." I HATE this outlook. First off, to haul off and slap your husband is to trust that he wont respond. Why in the world would you do such a thing? Then to repeatedly do so is just plain not using your head. It reeks of entitlement, that a woman can do so and know there wont be a response.

I want to say again that there is never a reason for a man to hit woman. Never. But why a woman would continue to kick a sleeping dog and not expect it to bite, is beyond me.

One more thing. On the police being involved. Maybe it is what pulled us back. but because of the police being involved, there have been some very real repercussions. And both of us are paying because of the police involvement. If we could have handled it on our own, WITH a counselor, we would be better off today. But instead, that day is going to stick with us for a long time. With our jobs, and other things. So no...I wish the police had not been involved in our instance.

Caren, what's up???

In His arms.

Q for others here, are women's shelters meant to be used for emotional abuse as well as physical? Caren your husband sounds like an incorrigible jerk, and you probably would do well to separate, however just re the physical abuse business, from what you write you are only in physical danger if you can't resist slapping your husband silly again. I can understand why you would want to do that, however you are capable of controlling that impulse, so do so, and at least the physical abuse risk will be none.

Rabbit

Caren, I don't think I've posted to you before, but I've followed your story.

I've lost control of myself before, too, and slapped my H out of intense frustration, only to have him knock the holy poop out of me. That's the only time he has hit me. Thankfully, I've been able to control myself over the past few years.

Now, I agree that your previous attempts at Plan B were dismal failures. I also agree that you need to go to a strict Plan B and stick to it!

Caren, the reason your H acts the way he does is because he can. It seems to me that he thinks that you will do anything to keep him, so that puts him into the driver's seat. My H is like this to a certain extent; he has told me that "you're not going anywhere." Just last week, he violated my boundary in regard to going to the bar without me. And, no, I didn't leave, but I did CALMLY let him know that I didn't like it, although I told him that he can do whatever he really wants to do. The next time he decides he wants to go to the bar without me, I will be doing what *I* want to do, which is pack my bag and go elsewhere...maybe for a night...maybe for a few days. He will not know where I am.

Get yourself a new job...one where you can make enough to survive. Save up so you can pay your bills, and then go to a strict Plan B. You may have to file for a legal separation so you can get child support for your child. I understand that rent is extremely high where you live, so you may have to file for legal separation to get him out of the house. So what if he does go to live with OW? How is that different from his sleeping with her?

AVOID the drama that exposed you to contact in your previous attempts at Plan B. When it comes to exchanging your daughter for visits, why not do it in a public place, where you can keep an eye on her from a safe distance, and quickly disappear when he arrives? I know that this is not a strict Plan B, as you will be seeing him...BUT, it keeps you from being in a position of giving in to his demands that you talk to him.

Your H needs to understand that he has a very real chance of really losing you. HE needs to do whatever it takes to get you back.

When I "disappeared" and went totally dark a few years ago (due to H's continuing to go talk to Cafe Woman at her restaurant), I got results. However, I did not stay gone long enough. I took H's confession, over the phone, to his ONS, as evidence that he was ready to completely open up to me. I was wrong. He only confessed to enough to get me home again. It took two more days after getting home, before I could even get the name of the ONS out of him. In retrospect, I should have left again, without further discussion, when he tried to tell me that he didn't know the name of the ONS. He didn't even want to tell me her name after he told me she was DEAD! Gimme a break! He didn't know her name, but he knew she had died? At that point, he only told me her name because I was ready to leave again.

Caren, your H acts the way he does because he can get away with it. When he told you to get out of his bed, the thing to say would have been, "I'm your wife, and I will continue to sleep in your bed." He may not hit you without your hitting him first, but that is emotional abuse. Don't do what I've done for too many years and put up with it.

Lay off the violence. It solves NOTHING, and convinces him that you haven't changed.

LC

Well put, Lady Clueless!!

Caren:

I want to let you know again that you are not alone. There are some here that know my history and know that I got in a fignt with my FWH, too. On my second D-Day, we got in a physical fignt. It was ugly. It never happened before and has never happened again. He says now, he knew he had "gone crazy" then and was out of control of his addiction to her. I had just about "lost my mind", too.

I had no choice but to go into PLAN B in order to save my sanity and my life! That's what I recommend for you. That's your only choice now.

This has gotten to the point of being dangerous for you.

Affairs are destructive at all levels....